Ergo Keyboard?

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 26 May 2013, 21:51

I've been experimenting a lot with ergonomic keyboards over the past year. I've owned or tried all of these:

-Kinesis Advantage
-Kinesis Freestyle
-Gold Touch
-Maltron
-Ergodox
-Microsoft Natural

The best is all about personal opinion. All of them have their advantages/disadvantages. I prefer keyboards that are mechanical, have straight columns and thumb keys so my pinky finger does not have to do all the work. I like the keyboards that reinvent the keyboard, like Maltron and µTron. Perhaps my favorite is the Maltron with the trackball, because the trackball is in a very ergonomic position.

I found most of my hand pain was caused by the mouse, not the keyboard, so I also invested in a CST Trackball and Rollermouse. Your hands and wrists need a variety of positions to feel comfortable. It can hard to find just one simple solution for a hand or wrist pain.

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ماء

Unread post by ماء » 27 May 2013, 15:23

same, my hands hurt too because mouse, not keyboard
but i want tray kinesis freestyle or maxim, they likes IBM M15,unfortunately they are still rubber dome

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 27 May 2013, 15:31

ماء wrote:same, my hands hurt too because mouse, not keyboard
but i want tray kinesis freestyle or maxim, they likes IBM M15,unfortunately they are still rubber dome
There is the Goldtouch as well, which I know some people like a lot. The split keyboards are nice, but what I don't like is the non-staggered columns. After using keyboards with straight columns, the typical layout just does not make sense.

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ماء

Unread post by ماء » 27 May 2013, 16:32

prdlm2009 wrote: There is the Goldtouch as well, which I know some people like a lot. The split keyboards are nice, but what I don't like is the non-staggered columns. After using keyboards with straight columns, the typical layout just does not make sense.
whether you don't like splite or adjusatable keyboard?
oh or you don't like non-staggered columns? i just want try keyboard with separate

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 27 May 2013, 17:14

ماء wrote:
prdlm2009 wrote: There is the Goldtouch as well, which I know some people like a lot. The split keyboards are nice, but what I don't like is the non-staggered columns. After using keyboards with straight columns, the typical layout just does not make sense.
whether you don't like splite or adjusatable keyboard?
oh or you don't like non-staggered columns? i just want try keyboard with separate
I do like split and adjustable. The more positions, the better. But I do not like non-staggered columns on a split keyboard. Something like the Ergodox or the µTron are some of my favorites. Also, the Maltron with the integrated trackball is a great keyboard. But very expensive.

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ماء

Unread post by ماء » 28 May 2013, 04:04

whether it does not make your hands ache?
yes,they is good,but expensive,i prefer u tron because adjustable positions.Ergo dox also good unfortunstely,should assemble themselves.
how so, according to your advice, I had to take? maybe, from the cheapest first

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 29 May 2013, 00:25

I do not have the best advice because I bought and tried all these before I made a final decision. I currently one a Maltron, Kinesis Advantage, and Ergodox, and hope to purchase a µTron. They all have their advantages/disadvantages.

You just have to figure out what you want in a keyboard and buy the ones you would like to try. Remember that most of them are easy to resell for near their purchase price.

Sorry, it's hard to say what is the best!

User avatar
HaaTa
Master Kiibohd Hunter

Re: What Best Erogonomic Keyboard?

Unread post by HaaTa » 29 May 2013, 04:51

(FYI I'm in Japan atm, and can forward utrons, pm if interested)

Myself, I've used a Microsoft ergo, kinesis contour, and a utron.
I like the kinesis, but the layout on the utron is much better.

Now, I've found for myself, posture and hand position have the greatest effect on comfort.
Elbows level or higher than the wrists.
Wrists floating, fingers curled down, usually resting the forearms.
Using a standing desk is one way to do this (and I actually prefer not using an ergo keyboard with a standing desk).

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 29 May 2013, 20:15

HaaTa wrote:(FYI I'm in Japan atm, and can forward utrons, pm if interested)

Myself, I've used a Microsoft ergo, kinesis contour, and a utron.
I like the kinesis, but the layout on the utron is much better.

Now, I've found for myself, posture and hand position have the greatest effect on comfort.
Elbows level or higher than the wrists.
Wrists floating, fingers curled down, usually resting the forearms.
Using a standing desk is one way to do this (and I actually prefer not using an ergo keyboard with a standing desk).

Haata, what makes you say the microTron has a better layout than Kinesis?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

Unread post by Muirium » 29 May 2013, 20:32

HaaTa wrote:(FYI I'm in Japan atm, and can forward utrons, pm if interested)

Myself, I've used a Microsoft ergo, kinesis contour, and a utron.
I like the kinesis, but the layout on the utron is much better.

Now, I've found for myself, posture and hand position have the greatest effect on comfort.
Elbows level or higher than the wrists.
Wrists floating, fingers curled down, usually resting the forearms.
Using a standing desk is one way to do this (and I actually prefer not using an ergo keyboard with a standing desk).
I quite agree about the standing desk. It suits me quite nicely. And as for µTron, I'd love one but I imagine they cost HHKB money and then some!

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 29 May 2013, 21:54

I have a standing desk as well and it's a great setup. Actually, it's why I am still at my desk job. If I could not stand I probably would still be working here.

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t!ng
Awake Sheep

Unread post by t!ng » 30 May 2013, 00:00

The G80 5000 is the only ergonomic I own and I can say that I really enjoy typing on it with the inner inclined. My hands,arms and wrists are so relaxed.

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HaaTa
Master Kiibohd Hunter

Re: What Best Erogonomic Keyboard?

Unread post by HaaTa » 30 May 2013, 00:38

prdlm2009 wrote:
HaaTa wrote: Haata, what makes you say the microTron has a better layout than Kinesis?
In short, the thumb keys. I find the kinesis ones to be more clumsy to use.
I also like the symmetrical inverted Ts.
Enter and tab placement are also awesome.

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Muirium
µ

Unread post by Muirium » 30 May 2013, 01:02

Go on, how much does it cost then?

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webwit
Wild Duck

Unread post by webwit » 30 May 2013, 01:29

It costs 52500! :twisted:

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Muirium
µ

Unread post by Muirium » 30 May 2013, 01:54

You should see my face right now…

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 30 May 2013, 04:32

It's only 52500 yen. And the exchange rate keeps getting better!

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ماء

Unread post by ماء » 30 May 2013, 06:23

prdlm2009 wrote:I do not have the best advice because I bought and tried all these before I made a final decision. I currently one a Maltron, Kinesis Advantage, and Ergodox, and hope to purchase a µTron. They all have their advantages/disadvantages.

You just have to figure out what you want in a keyboard and buy the ones you would like to try. Remember that most of them are easy to resell for near their purchase price.

Sorry, it's hard to say what is the best!
hi prdlm2009,
right now, I only have a budget of maybe $ 100,
so, do you think kinesis freestyle,GoldTouch :)
or kinesis maxim(looks like cherry mx 500 ergoplus)
how shape rubber dome,whether rubber dome her good?

thank in advance :|

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vivalarevolución
formerly prdlm2009

Unread post by vivalarevolución » 30 May 2013, 17:54

You will have to rephrase your last question. I cannot understand what you are asking.

Like I said before, I do not feel comfortable giving people an exact recommendation on which keyboard to buy. Each have similar key feel because they are all rubber dome, but just think about what layout you will enjoy the most. The layouts are all slightly different. I did like how the Kinesis came with attachable wrist rests, though.

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Muirium
µ

Unread post by Muirium » 30 May 2013, 18:10

Quite right. Recommending ergo keyboards is like recommending music. You have to have some common ground. Can't really expect someone to like your picks when they've never even listened to the genre before. Everyone's different.

A bad music recommendation will cost you next to nothing. But the wrong keyboard could easily blow that $100.

What ماء needs to do is try some ergo keyboards. The more you try, the more you learn about what you need, and the better your next choice will be. Get your hands on some keyboards, ماء! The easier they are to loan, return or to sell on to someone else, the better.

hoggy

Unread post by hoggy » 30 May 2013, 20:59

+1

Given your budget, I'd say look for a second hand goldtouch - it's possible to get one for £30 on ebay. After a few months, get something else (as well - not to replace).

Findecanor

Unread post by Findecanor » 31 May 2013, 00:42

Note that there are two generations of Gouldtouch. The earlier Goldtouch can easily be identified as having no column of PgUp/PgDn/Home/End keys above the cursor keys on the right side. Its keys are not as soft as the later generation.

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ماء

Unread post by ماء » 31 May 2013, 04:06

prdlm2009 wrote:You will have to rephrase your last question. I cannot understand what you are asking.

Like I said before, I do not feel comfortable giving people an exact recommendation on which keyboard to buy. Each have similar key feel because they are all rubber dome, but just think about what layout you will enjoy the most. The layouts are all slightly different. I did like how the Kinesis came with attachable wrist rests, though.
Sorry prdlm :mrgreen:

User avatar
ماء

Unread post by ماء » 31 May 2013, 04:21

Muirium wrote:Quite right. Recommending ergo keyboards is like recommending music. You have to have some common ground. Can't really expect someone to like your picks when they've never even listened to the genre before. Everyone's different.

A bad music recommendation will cost you next to nothing. But the wrong keyboard could easily blow that $100.

What ماء needs to do is try some ergo keyboards. The more you try, the more you learn about what you need, and the better your next choice will be. Get your hands on some keyboards, ماء! The easier they are to loan, return or to sell on to someone else, the better.
good taking an example :)
Thanks Murium ;)
hoggy wrote:+1
Given your budget, I'd say look for a second hand goldtouch - it's possible to get one for £30 on ebay. After a few months, get something else (as well - not to replace).
I went to ebay now :P
Findecanor wrote:Note that there are two generations of Gouldtouch. The earlier Goldtouch can easily be identified as having no column of PgUp/PgDn/Home/End keys above the cursor keys on the right side. Its keys are not as soft as the later generation.
maybe kinesis more adjustable
Last edited by ماء on 04 Jul 2013, 08:56, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymole

Unread post by Anonymole » 31 May 2013, 23:39

Here's an ergonomic design I'd love to build/use if someone knew of a mfgr who might like to take on the job. I've search for something like this but have never found an equivalent.

Image

Image


Similar to this:
http://rocklincomputer.com/keyboards/fi ... -700px.jpg
Last edited by Anonymole on 01 Jun 2013, 00:13, edited 1 time in total.

dondy

Unread post by dondy » 31 May 2013, 23:56

why wouldn't you go with a standard split layout? what's the point of keeyping the two together as much?
also, with a split layout you too can put a tenkeypad/trackpad(or rather a trackball) in the middle.

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Muirium
µ

Unread post by Muirium » 01 Jun 2013, 00:07

Yep. The two good design options are either to go with separate halves for freedom of position, or a combined unit for stability, with a good selection of adjustments built in. The trouble with Microsoft's ergo keyboards, and the layout above, is they lack both.

Besides, you've got to try a few keyboards first, before you know you really have no option than to build your own!

Anonymole

Unread post by Anonymole » 01 Jun 2013, 00:21

None of the splits I've seen has the layout I desire. And the split distance/angle is specifically calculated as well as the size being designed to fit small desk pullout keyboard drawers. The above is a compromised blend of standard layout and a split, in a one piece that is sturdy and stable. Compared to non-ergos this is head and heels above for usability. MS ergo is too tight. Goldtouch shuffles the keys around too much as do many of the others. The only thing close is that old PC Concept SK 6000 which is not made anymore. And I have tried a bunch of them but they don't fit my needs.

dondy

Unread post by dondy » 01 Jun 2013, 01:14

uhhm, forgive my ignorance but the kinesis and goldtouch splits are pretty much standard tenkeyless layout (utron diverges from this, i don't really see how this is a bad thing though...). beeing split, they have variable width and depending on your "mount" also variable angles.

also, the pc concept sk 6000 looks pretty much like a microsoft natural to me...

i really fail to see your point :s

davkol

Unread post by davkol » 01 Jun 2013, 03:02

dondy wrote:also, the pc concept sk 6000 looks pretty much like a microsoft natural to me...
Better. ^.^ But yeah, it's more or less the same shape.
dondy wrote:uhhm, forgive my ignorance but the kinesis and goldtouch splits are pretty much standard tenkeyless layout (utron diverges from this, i don't really see how this is a bad thing though...).
Unfortunately, at least my goldtouch is more like weird 75% keyboard. That cluster on the far left is really weird.

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