First custom mechanical keyboard

[WODE]

Hi All,

New here, but it seems the best place to post some questions in regards to setting up myself a more custom mechanical keyboard. Currently I shamelessly own a Razer Blackwidow which I've had since 2011 (I was 16!) but it was my first keyboard with mechanical keys and I absolutely cannot go back to a regular keyboard. Getting a little bit worn and I'm looking to swap it out in the near future.

I've been doing some reading (Blogs/Forums) and visiting the subreddit r/Mechanicalkeyboards just to clue myself up a little bit more, I'm really interested in some of the keyboard setups people have and would like to give it a go myself.

Any tips or recommendations for first purchases? Also is there more purchasing options for guys in the UK? I've only found a couple retailers in the UK which deal keycaps/switches etc.

If there is a Topic where this has already been discussed, links would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
WODE

[Muirium]

When you say "custom", it sounds like you don't mean a keyboard that you've designed and built yourself. Because we do actually make that happen around here. Here's what I made last year:


http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/grou ... t7474.html

If you're after a few UK mechanical keyboard retailers, I'd suggest:

http://www.keyboardco.com/
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/Mec ... oards.html

There's also a lot of trades to be found in the marketplace section here at DT, where you can find some pretty interesting stuff for generally decent prices.

[WODE]

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm at work so i'm a bit slower i'm afraid.

Thats really impressive! I didnt stretch myself that far, looks amazing too. How long did the process take you and how difficult is the work involved? I love the idea of making your own board but i'm not to sure my knowledge is quite there yet. I was thinking maybe buy a template keyboard (87 key) and play with just the keycaps and switches etc, just make it look pretty.

Now you've shown me that though I am kinda wondering what the entire process is like. I will have a further read when I get in. Oh, the retail links you provided for purchasing are great as well!

[Muirium]

It's a real rabbit hole, just like mech keyboards in general, but more multidimensional when you're in control of everything! So beware…

My board started in planning last summer, and I only finished it at the end of the year. Here's the build thread in all its monstrous glory. There were a bunch of us working on projects together, borrowing Matteo's expertise:

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t6102.html

What you're really seeing in the photo, however, is the fancy caps I got for it. Here's the same caps on a TKL:



Caps are likely more the customisation you were asking about! Those are Round 4 SPH caps from a big group buy 7bit ran last year. Round 5 is the follow up, with the same shape but more colours.

[WODE]

It does sound a little bit daunting, however I bet the project was great fun and the pay off at the end was more than worth it! The idea of having a board that there is only one of in the world is pretty cool to me

Thats actually, in my eyes pretty efficient. 6 months-ish then? Just running through the thread now really impressive the attention to detail and all the different parts coming together. You're right though it is a rather large project, veeeery deep rabbit hole haha

I think for now i'll take it easy and stick with just buying a fresh 87 key and experiment with different caps. If you have any idea what would be good for this then let us know.

I'll finish your thread on building your own though, you've sparked a flame for something I didn't even know I wanted to do. Will PM you sometime in the future when i've knocked up something! Thanks for your help and suggestions.

[Broadmonkey]

So you are just after a TKL? If you don't care about backlighting a "CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid" is as good as you get it, and you can always change the controller if you ever feel like it. If you like the pretty lights, then the "CM Storm Rapid i" might be a good idea. Alternatively wait for the CM Storm Novatouch, it's more or less the same but with Topre yet still takes MX keycaps. It is however a bit more expensive.

I just noticed I only recommended CM Storm keyboards... it's just because they tend to be a bit cheaper and are well regarded, but really, anything from Ducky, Keycool, Filco, WASDkeyboards or whatever should be good enough.

[Muirium]

Will PM you sometime in the future when i've knocked up something! Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Cool. Speaking of TKLs, hi Broadmonkey!, I have just two of them myself (not counting this IBM SSK here…) and I wrote a big assed review of the first: a Ducky Shine 3.

http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/ ... t7130.html

Ducky's modern boards are all built on that same basic body, as I understand. So could be worth a read, especially for stuff about stabs and such.

My second TKL – the one in the photo above – is a prototype NovaTouch that CM sent me to beta test (and they recently let me talk about it!). It's quite a keyboard, as it's the first to use Topre switches with MX caps, like Broadmonkey says. I'll write a review for it when they're cool with that, closer to launch.

Naturally, if you're interested in modding switches, MX is the way to go. The NovaTouch has a lot less in play than an MX board. Although it is a current favourite of mine because Topre!

[WODE]

Been referenced loads and done some reading yesterday and there is quite a few which caught my eye. The CM Novatouch with the topre switches seems intresting. Never hit a topre switch before so that might be something to wait around for. Gives me some time too. When are they being released? Reddit thinks "in the first half of 2014" at around $180?

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeybo ... _released/

That ducky 3 board you done a review on is all kinds of yellow! haha

[Muirium]

You can find it in the dark even without its lights on…

The NovaTouch is a pretty classy board. I've only seen my prototype, which they've improved on since, so I don't know about the final version. Or when its coming out etc! But it's definitely one to keep in mind.

CM does an MX switch tester, too, if you're curious about the range. And it's essentially free if you then buy one of their boards, as they give you its price as a discount. Wonder if the discount applies when you buy a NovaTouch or is it just for their MX keyboards?

http://deskthority.net/try-before-you-b ... ml#p161889

[mzero]

There are a lot of eye candies in custom keyboards. I was in the same boat!

Before doing this, you need to plan if you go for:
- Handwiring with Teensy (or similar micro controller) and Plate
- PCB with or without plate
- What layout do you want: ISO, ANSI, US, International, QUERTY, Dvorak, etc. BE careful, this is a big constraint for custom keycaps
- Case: Aluminum / Acrylic / Wood
- Custom springs
- Lubrication
- Stickers
- Blacklit: Mix, one color
- Keycaps: Topre, Cherry MX, Alps... Cherry MX gives you more options. But my advice is to go for ANSI-US (I also use an ISO), there are more options for custom keycaps. There few GB for keycaps that are unique and you will never find them later, well it will hard to get them after the GB is closed. I miss recently Macross and Granite keycaps GB because it didn't fit my layout. Luckily I could get some keycaps from Round 5 for my custom layout, not so conventional nor too standard
- Do you have tools? At least a decent solder? I've used cheap solders before don't make that mistake. If you are an hobbyist, invest in good tools (take years)

Believe me when you started with custom keyboards, you might end paying more than a good quality stock keyboard and more than planned, but that is the price for unique keyboards, even if your wallet hurts so bad, LOL. But before making a mistake, plan and see if you can handle it.

For my experience, I've bought all the parts in different places from Korea, US, Germany, UK. Be careful with Custom taxes and VAT. I haven't received the aluminum case nor my new set of keycaps (R5 hasn't been produced yet)

But if you decide to go for a safe route, you can always go for a stock keyboard, but you wouldn't say "I've built it" but "I pump it up"

Just in case, I've just bought a DOLCH DSA key caps set directly from SP, before missing it and also it's a good price (it will be proxied from US). What a pitty story with this DOLCH DSA GB that the maker ended to sale them. I don't know if it will be used for a CM Novatouch or it will be used for a new custom keyboard with "standard" layout. I've just buy it because I want to try DSA, because I have DCS profile and Round 5 is SA.

At the end, my custom will take me about 9 months (September) to finish it, it's a baby! Later I'm planning to "adopt" a Topre one with Cherry MX caps (CM Novatouch for sure if reviews are fine) for work.

Just keep learning and asking, people here is very nice to help you.

[Muirium]

Thanks for reminding me about DSA Dolch. I was in the original GB, which failed. But here they are now!

http://keyshop.pimpmykeyboard.com/produ ... total-keys

My custom 60% cost €111 in stainless steel, as I recall, half that in MX green switches, and currently it shares my fanciest caps with the NovaTouch, waiting on DSA Granite and Round 5 coming. It's not the cheapest hobby, but far from the most expensive either. You just need a bit of patience, especially when putting it together!

I'd say that finding a good set of caps is the first thing to do. Then you know what your constraints are, for customs and even for commercial boards.

[WODE]

I like to imagine its like the sun and you cant look directly at it...

Looks really solid, guy in my office (web dev) recently bought a HHKB and seems really pleased with it. I believe that has topre switches on it, he long promises to one day bring it in so I can have a look at it. The programming on them is supposed to be really good from what I've been told/read.

Might get my hands on one of those switch testers as well, costs peanuts anyways. They have the CM Quick Fire Rapid that Broadmonkey mentioned earlier which I think looks pretty smart so it might not be a bad idea. I'm not too sure myself if they would... Being a hybrid it would be a touch if they did!

[mzero]

Sure, it's far from more expensive hobbies. But I don't how I ended up buying 3 sets when I wanted just one , that why I said that my wallet hurts. They are so pretty

[Muirium]

The genius of 7bit's group buys is how easy he makes it to fall for that temptation!

I like to imagine its like the sun and you cant look directly at it...

It arrived in dark old Edinburgh (from even darker Helsinki!) a few days before Christmas. I'll always think of it as my midnight winter sun board!

You should see it with its hypno-epipleptic lightshow running! Before I saw it in action for myself, I had considered making my own backlit custom. But, really, lights are only good for showing status like Caps Lock or even which layer you're in. Well, not until we integrate them into the caps themselves, someday.

Looks really solid, guy in my office (web dev) recently bought a HHKB and seems really pleased with it. I believe that has topre switches on it, he long promises to one day bring it in so I can have a look at it. The programming on them is supposed to be really good from what I've been told/read.

Yes, the HHKB is one of the best keyboards out there, full stop. It's made by Topre for PFU, and uses Topre switches, of course. I consider it the king of Topre keyboards, and I'm not alone:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/my- ... t5497.html

Trev fell head over heels for the exact one that I'm after: white with dyesub Helvetica caps (some of the prettiest and most understated anywhere) and damped S-type switches. Someday, o someday, one of those shall be mine! Just not today…

My custom was designed with many of its lessons in mind: short right shift, Function key to the side of it, diamond shaped navigation arrow layer on [;'/ and Backspace down a row, right on top of slim ANSI style Return. I really like all of those innovations from the HHKB, and suggest them for customs everywhere!

Definitely try it out if you can. Topres aren't the kind of switch that will stun you with amazement: that's IBM buckling spring! But they have a smooth tactile curve that is second to none, and they activate higher than MX which many of us like. I find them best of all for long typing sessions. They really shine above all else after several hours.

Might get my hands on one of those switch testers as well, costs peanuts anyways. They have the CM Quick Fire Rapid that Broadmonkey mentioned earlier which I think looks pretty smart so it might not be a bad idea. I'm not too sure myself if they would... Being a hybrid it would be a touch if they did!

Intersting that Broadmonkey likes the QFR when he's a Cherry stab man, like me. The NovaTouch uses another kind of stab all its own, which I like a lot because they're as quiet and easy to swap caps on as Cherry stabs, but less stodgy feeling too: one of Costar's strengths. Kind of wish I knew how to copy these for my own inventions…

Certainly, CM's making some nice boards these days, so I would try that tester with them in mind. And if you into caps at all you'll feel no guilt at pulling off the stock ones and putting on something nice! Because CM's weak spot is the caps. I wonder when they'll have an answer to Ducky's Premier?


http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... ml#p161663

Fortunately, Ducky also sells these separately.

[mzero]

Looks really solid, guy in my office (web dev) recently bought a HHKB and seems really pleased with it. I believe that has topre switches on it, he long promises to one day bring it in so I can have a look at it. The programming on them is supposed to be really good from what I've been told/read.

Are you a web dev? If you use a lot of arrow keys, think about to have them without using [Function] Key, I use frequently [ctrl]+[shift]+[arrow], you might find weird/uncomfortable pressing those keys with a HHKBB layout. I may say HHKBB is a huge eye candy, but you have few options for key caps and it's the most expensive keyboard for retail, but custom KBs might be more expensive.
Good luck with your search, have fun!

[Muirium]

I'm no dev, but I use Shift+Option+Arrows all the time. Not a problem on my HHKB-style 60%. In fact, it's quicker because you don't have as far to reach. Just a matter of getting used to that function layer. They are the magic that enables 60% keyboards.

You're right about the HHKB's limited options for going "custom", though. When you get an HHKB, you're basically buying all the keyboard and caps you can expect to get. They're fantastic, but yes, alternate replacements are few and far between. That's why we're working on this kind of thing:

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/topr ... ml#p148317

HHKB NovaTouch!

[mzero]

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/topr ... ml#p148317

HHKB NovaTouch!

That is awesome project, I've been keeping an eye to that project since the beginning

[WODE]

Afternoon,

Spent the last couple hrs looking at some boards that i'm interested in. As much as an 87 key would be nice for the arrow keys etc, but I'm looking at the minimalistic boards and cant help but think they look so awesome when sitting on a desk. HHKB is a bit pricey IMO especially for my second mech. Cherry MX is looking good to me as well at the moment switch wise, plus I cant find many people/variety in topre keycaps as much as I am in MX keycaps which is a bit of a downer when I plan to be switching the caps around.

Definitely try it out if you can. Topres aren't the kind of switch that will stun you with amazement: that's IBM buckling spring! But they have a smooth tactile curve that is second to none, and they activate higher than MX which many of us like

Certainly, CM's making some nice boards these days, so I would try that tester with them in mind. And if you into caps at all you'll feel no guilt at pulling off the stock ones and putting on something nice! Because CM's weak spot is the caps.

Spoke to the web dev today about it and he will probs bring it in next week and let me have a little go on it. He has the HHKB Pro 2 with blank caps. Also a mac user, so he said the setting for the mac version of the keyboard is efficient once he got used to the layout, especially with the Control Key being roughly where a Caps Lock is on a regular layout keyboard. More of a Windows and Linux guy myself though!

Again another amazing looking board, never seen a bad review from one. It will probably be the end of the month before I put any money down, but I'm definitely more set on a smaller board. Mentioning the caps on the CM boards being a little weak. I was looking at the Poker II which has some great reviews but to me the caps do look... I dunno, the plastic just looks 'fragile/poor' in comparison to some others but I really like how the keys sit on the base of the board, they're kinda hoisted up.

Also been considering the Ducky Mini as an option as one of these keyboards as well, but Im struggling to find a supplier for this :/ Just looks so smart to me! Theres a post about some Ducky keyboards stuff I have been reading and they look really solid. Particularly impressed with wDanielsson's one on the thread below.

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... -1170.html

Are you a web dev? If you use a lot of arrow keys, think about to have them without using [Function] Key, I use frequently [ctrl]+[shift]+[arrow], you might find weird/uncomfortable pressing those keys with a HHKBB layout. I may say HHKBB is a huge eye candy, but you have few options for key caps and it's the most expensive keyboard for retail

No, I'm no developer! I do still enjoy my Coffee however. I'm an IT Support Tech, but I find myself using shortcuts to navigate my OS/Browsers more than my mouse in all fairness. I also do a lot of gaming (LoL, CS:GO mainly) so its something else I'm thinking might be odd when picking a smaller keyboard but many reviews think they are fine for that kind of use.

I also completely agree with you on price and getting used to the new layout of a keyboard, it was an experience getting used to my macro keys on my current keyboard being at the far left hand side of the board! But like you say it is a great piece of eye candy.

It arrived in dark old Edinburgh (from even darker Helsinki!) a few days before Christmas. I'll always think of it as my midnight winter sun board!

It would be covered in smog and filth by the time it hit Watford haha, Good replacement for the star at the top of the tree then if you ask me!

[Muirium]

The Poker is essentially the HHKB of the Cherry MX world. Both in a good and a bad way. Here's a thread chock full of pretty pictures of just how much you can do with them:

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t3217.html

The HHKB comes with great stock caps, but not so for the Poker. Basically, no one buys them to run them stock. They are all about putting on something fancy. Here's a thread about the stock PBT caps that you mentioned, they're not great:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/pok ... t7692.html

A good thing about Pokers, though, is that there's plenty of fancy aftermarket cases available, as well as caps. Think of the Poker as a platform, rather than a high end keyboard in its own right!

The Ducky Mini was a customised version of the ISO (European layout) Poker II commissioned by Kayvee at Ducky Nordic. Same strengths and weaknesses as the Poker proper. Oh, and the Poker II differs from the original Poker by having a plate. That makes it more solid, but a lot harder to mod switches. Original Pokers are PCB mount, so you can open up the switches very easily.

What switches are you thinking about?

[Eszett]

If you want a decent mechanical TKL under 100 $ go for the CM Quick Fire Rapid. It is quite cheap compared to a Filco Majestouch (150 $), considered that there is not much difference between both keyboards.

If you want a Ferrari and dollars is what you sleep on, get something like a KMAC, HHKB or something like that. But you can't change keycaps easily with them.

If you want something inbetween I would choose the CM Novatouch everyone here is waiting for.

[Ozric]

It's a real rabbit hole, just like mech keyboards in general, but more multidimensional when you're in control of everything! So beware…

My board started in planning last summer, and I only finished it at the end of the year. Here's the build thread in all its monstrous glory. There were a bunch of us working on projects together, borrowing Matteo's expertise:

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t6102.html

What you're really seeing in the photo, however, is the fancy caps I got for it. Here's the same caps on a TKL:



Caps are likely more the customisation you were asking about! Those are Round 4 SPH caps from a big group buy 7bit ran last year. Round 5 is the follow up, with the same shape but more colours.

Where did you buy that keycap set? It looks pretty much exactly like what I would want out of an SA set.

[Muirium]

I said in the text you quoted just under the picture! 7bit's legendary Round 4 SPH. It closed long ago. I bought them second hand, in fact, but without any apparent wear. Since then, all my typing has turned them nice and shiny! Which doesn't look bad at all on double shots, anyway.

[mimecry]

nice thread. as a newbie who's been using brown mx Filco Majestouch II for over a year, i've been spending a lot of time reading about various aspects of this hobby so i can take it to the next level. if you don't mind the very blatant thread hijacking, i have several questions for the more knowledgeable people here:

- i've been looking into a keyboard without the function keys and backlight, but with arrow keys. so far the only one i've found is the KBT Pure Pro. are there any similar models on the market?

- something else i find intriguing are aluminum/acrylic housings (i have yet to differentiate the nuisances between the two). are such housings only sold separately or limited to Korean customs?

- after over one year's usage, i came to the realization that i don't like MX Browns that much. seems to me like it's decent at everything but not great at anything. when i type i still have to bottom out, it's not fatiguing but when i want to type quickly at night without bottoming out it's almost impossible to do. also this sounds contradictory but the light activation force means i make a lot of mis-presses. i don't have any complaints with it while gaming, but i also don't feel like it's as good as can be. my old roommate had a 6vg2 with Blacks, and i really liked it even though i didn't try it that often. for my next board i've been contemplating between Clears, Whites and Greens. there's no opportunity for me to try them out in person (living in EU makes it hard), and from what i read 55/62g Clears would be the most suitable for me, as they possess similar qualities to the Blacks and don't make as much noise as Whites/Greens. i'd love to try every single one out in the future, but for now can anyone recommend what my next switch should be?

wow that was longer than i expected. sorry again for the thread intrusion

[Muirium]

Threadjacking is the DT way, and you've chosen a perfectly relevant one anyway.

A good Functionkeyless option (a term I'm determined to keep using…) is the Leopold FC660M:


https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php ... =fc660mceb

An even better option is its Topre switch brother, the Leopold FC660C:

http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/ ... t6443.html

Topre probably has the smooth tactile feel that you were looking for in MX browns. It's more expensive, and harder to find replacement caps for, but I've heard many people say that the 600C is actually the best feeling Topre keyboard of them all; and one of the cheapest available, too.

As for where you might go with MX, what did MX black feel like to you? What's the difference you're looking for? I like the linear MXs quite a bit, myself, as Cherry's tactile switches just don't cut it, for me, and the clickies have nothing on buckling spring. But MX's strong point is indeed its adaptability.

[mimecry]

the Leopold looks good, but as i plan to replace stock keycaps on my next keyboard, i'll have to find a set with custom modifiers. never been fond of Topre after finding out that it isn't mechanical, this was way back when i just started the hobby. it sounds like something i'd much prefer to personally try first before committing to

as for the MX Blacks, what i like most was how soft it feels when you press it down, kinda like landing on a cushion. hope you get what i mean

[Muirium]

Topre's "just a dome", they say. But they're just being foolish. I'd argue anything with metal contacts is inferior to capacitative sensing. I'm not only talking about Topre vs. MX, either, as I'm on my capsense IBM Model F! Anyway, all these arguments are pointless posturing. The only truth is to try.

What more do you want from MX blacks?

[mimecry]

i honestly don't remember much about the Blacks, as it's been a long time since my old roommate moved out. i just remember that i never had to bottom out when typing, and the sensation when pressing the keys down is akin to throwing yourself on a foam mattress. but i also remember not enjoying holding Ctrl down for too long when playing CS, something else to keep in mind i suppose

does your IBM use buckling springs? i was going to look into what that is but at this point i'm quite overwhelming with all this knowledge

[Muirium]

Yes, I've a few IBMs (actually, most of my keyboards) and they're all buckling spring. My favourite of the moment is this little guy here:



The 60% "Kishsaver", one of the hardest to find. It's just as old as it looks! Mine's from 1986. SSKs are pretty nice to type on, too, and less old fashioned looking. There's a whole thread dedicated to those…

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t2885.html

You know you're on Deskthority when 1980s keyboards are the answer to every question!

Anyway, backtracking to the land of new keyboards, and Cherry MX, it sounds to me like you might want to try out MX red. That's the lighter brother to MX black. Basically the same weight as MX brown, but without the bump. I was warned they're easy to press by accident, but when I got a board full of them I found them better than I hoped. Here's the story:

http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/ ... t7130.html

[mimecry]

you're supposed to help me narrow my choices down, not expand them

last question: what do you find appealing about vintage keyboards? i've ignored them entirely due to a few factors: lack of customization choices, humongous size, often unorthodox layouts. not to mention hard to find/expensive, but so are Korean customs and i think those look snazzy as heck. just want to know what you and likeminded enthusiasts like about old school boards

[Muirium]

you're supposed to help me narrow my choices down, not expand them

You've come to quite the wrong place for that!

last question: what do you find appealing about vintage keyboards? i've ignored them entirely due to a few factors: lack of customization choices, humongous size, often unorthodox layouts. not to mention hard to find/expensive, but so are Korean customs and i think those look snazzy as heck. just want to know what you and likeminded enthusiasts like about old school boards

The thing that draws me to them is switches. Currently made boards are almost all Cherry MX. In the wings, there's Topre whose switches are fantastic and boards are quite nice, but are hard to find, especially in Europe. Matias does two whole flavours of quite nice Alps clone switches, and Unicomp is still around making buckling spring Model Ms. And I think that's basically it. But once upon a time there were far more kinds of keyboard switches vying for supremacy, each with their own strengths and flaws and feel.

So this Kishsaver here, for instance, uses buckling springs. But not like Unicomp's. These are IBM's Model F capacitative sensing buckling springs. They feel sharper, and lighter than the later version, and have full NKRO thanks to their different technology. And the sound, oh the sound! Here's a few examples:

Ducky Shine 3 with MX reds.

IBM Model M SSK.

Kishsaver: 1983 vintage IBM Model F

I started off by looking at new keyboards and trying to pick the perfect one for me, too. But that soon led me to DT and down the hole I went!

There's a whole other world of keyboards out there once you go beyond MX. Cherry's switches are pretty solid, and have a lot of strengths to them: no one else ever made a whole family with as many different combinations that you could buy from as the MX lineup, and the selection of caps is without peer. But no MX can be as sharp and slick and clicky as a buckling spring. And I'm yet to see a Korean custom 60% that's as killer as my 3 kilo Kishy!