Pcb mounted keyboards?

[prava]

Here i was, happy with my Filco MJ2 TKL with mx reds... but I had to go and try t Poker X, with the very same mx reds.

End result? I don't like my Filco anymore. The feel seems horrible.. and I believe the reason being is that there is no flex at all.

Note, I have checked with the same keycaps (and I prefer, too, SP thin double-shots rather than Cherry original thick-ones. Call me weird...), and its still the same.

So, which keyboards are currently pcb mounted? Don't care if its 60% or TKL (or 75%, like the Noppoo choc mini). I will probably sell my Poker because it lacks R_ALT and using CTRL+ALT all the time is simply not practical, since I require lots of symbols that only appear with R_ALT.

[Findecanor]

GH60 and ErgoDox could be made PCB-mounted, but don't have to be.
There are also several Asian DIY keyboards, such as the Red Scarf that could be made PCB-mounted but where the default kit contains an acrylic plate that is made for fitting PCB-mounted stabilisers.

Most of Cherry's G80-series are PCB-mounted, but they have quite thin cases that are often a bit flimsy. They have been accused of having too much flex. Some older variants are sturdier though.
I am right now using a Dolch keyboard, which (apart from now being expensive because of its keycaps being popular) contains the same PCB-mounted innards as a Cherry G80-1800 but in a different, more sturdier case ... and several people who have used both do find the Dolch keyboard to feel nicer and less flimsy because of that.

[prava]

Thanks for the answer... although I'd rather use a modern keyboard.

Heck, I'll try one the G80-2551 HAD I have lying around (although its MASSIVE) and see how it feels... as its collecting dust, for the moment.

But... lets see if somebody has more insights, although the prospective isn't good, it seems I'm a nerd even in a nerdy world such as ours

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If you want to be a nerd in a nerdy world, try being a wiki contributor … I don't belong at Deskthority either, what with all this custom keyboard shenanigans and Topre–IBM obsession. (And curiously, I find Alt Gr impractical and use Ctrl+Alt exclusively for all my custom bindings including all the ones mapped to Alt Gr in the third-party UK International layout.)

The fact is, even the cheap Far East keyboards in the 90s were plate mount — it was simply a given that you used a mounting plate. One major exception was Hi-Tek and Stackpole, who opted to make all the switches out of a single, solid plastic moulding, to provide the requisite strength without needing to involve any sheet metal. The shift in the 90s wasn't to PCB mount, but instead to plastic plates, especially with Strong Man.

Cherry are the one company noted for sticking resolutely to PCB mount, and the G80-3000 now is far too bendy (and it desperately needs a centre standoff to support the PCB). Even Cherry use a mounting plate in their redesigned MX keyboard, although it's not all that great it seems (I've got a Datacomp keyboard where the plate has awful flex).

PCB mount is rare and mostly found in 60% keyboards, although those seem to be all plate mount nowadays.

Part of the problem is that Cherry switches do have a very hard landing, and MX red is a very light switch, so they require light typing to avoid fatigue from the hard bottoming out.

Maybe if kbdb.io ever takes off, you'll be able to find the few suitable keyboards more readily.

[webwit]

I don't belong at Deskthority either, what with all this custom keyboard shenanigans and Topre–IBM obsession.

I have 3000+ counterpoints.

[prava]

If you want to be a nerd in a nerdy world, try being a wiki contributor … I don't belong at Deskthority either, what with all this custom keyboard shenanigans and Topre–IBM obsession. (And curiously, I find Alt Gr impractical and use Ctrl+Alt exclusively for all my custom bindings including all the ones mapped to Alt Gr in the third-party UK International layout.)

The fact is, even the cheap Far East keyboards in the 90s were plate mount — it was simply a given that you used a mounting plate. One major exception was Hi-Tek and Stackpole, who opted to make all the switches out of a single, solid plastic moulding, to provide the requisite strength without needing to involve any sheet metal. The shift in the 90s wasn't to PCB mount, but instead to plastic plates, especially with Strong Man.

Cherry are the one company noted for sticking resolutely to PCB mount, and the G80-3000 now is far too bendy (and it desperately needs a centre standoff to support the PCB). Even Cherry use a mounting plate in their redesigned MX keyboard, although it's not all that great it seems (I've got a Datacomp keyboard where the plate has awful flex).

PCB mount is rare and mostly found in 60% keyboards, although those seem to be all plate mount nowadays.

Part of the problem is that Cherry switches do have a very hard landing, and MX red is a very light switch, so they require light typing to avoid fatigue from the hard bottoming out.

Maybe if kbdb.io ever takes off, you'll be able to find the few suitable keyboards more readily.

Mmmm, I'll try to put some o-rings I have lying around if they make the experience any better.

Regarding the flex... I bet that with big keyboards (and even with TKL) it might b too much, but for the tiny poker its simply perfect.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes sadly PCB mount commercially made MX boards are very few. There is also the Neo Zelia if you want something in standard TKL, and the Plum 96. You will probably have to hunt a bit for either of them and be prepared to order from China.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64838.msg1516027

KBT Race II is another, apparently.

[davkol]

I'm happy with my ErgoDox without a plate (not that I care too much, it's just more convenient), planning to get a Planck and GH36, both plateless as well.

[prava]

It seems the Vortex crew thought about me since the next poker (called pok3r in the fb page) is pcb mounted

https://www.facebook.com/Vortexgear/pho ... =1&theater

[gianni]

Poker 3 is plate mounted

[Sigmoid]

Sorry, could you explain this? How does a PCB mount feel superior to a plate mount? Flex, as in, the keyboard flexes under pressure? Is that a good thing?!

I always thought it was a horrible thing that people were putting up with because manufacturing costs and all that.

[davkol]

It's potentially quieter for sure, and bottoming out might be a bit less harsh.

[Sigmoid]

It's potentially quieter for sure, and bottoming out might be a bit less harsh.

As an electronics hobbyist, seeing "flex" and "PCB" in the same sentence makes me cringe on principle. Solder joints don't like flex. In fact it's like kryptonite to them.

Feel of course is another question. I guess rubber o-rings might solve the bottom-out issue though.

[Muirium]

O-rings do something quite different to key feel than a flexible chassis. Hard to describe, better to feel for yourself. I think it might have to do with the axis switch movement being "fluid" (to a microscopic degree) with PCB mount, while o-rings only affect bottoming out.

PCB mount is sometimes great, and sometimes less so! It does depend a lot on the board, and the switches too. I like it for small layouts with MX switches. And I like it in my HHKB, which isn't technically PCB mount but does also lack a metal plate: the plastic outer case provides all the support. But the Chicony I've got with Mitsumi miniatures could really use a plate, it's too bendy at fullsize. Or rather the need for PCB support mounts up at that scale.

[chzel]

As an electronics hobbyist, seeing "flex" and "PCB" in the same sentence makes me cringe on principle. Solder joints don't like flex. In fact it's like kryptonite to them.

Tell that to IBM, the Model F's have a PCB that gets curved by the plates. Or Cherry, they use a thin phenolic PCB on the G80-3000 that flexes like it's rubber!
Besides the flex we are talking about is minimal for an FR4 board. It's just a change of feel.
Imagine the difference between tapping your fingers on a solid desk and on 2-3 sheets of paper.

[Sigmoid]

Tell that to IBM, the Model F's have a PCB that gets curved by the plates.

Note how there are no solder joints in the flex area:


Also, there is no movement in the PCB there. Once it's mounted, it's mounted. All movement is absorbed by the plate.

Or Cherry, they use a thin phenolic PCB on the G80-3000 that flexes like it's rubber!

Well. I'm sure they know what they are doing. Still...

Imagine the difference between tapping your fingers on a solid desk and on 2-3 sheets of paper.

Yea, sounds reasonable.

[davkol]

It's potentially quieter for sure, and bottoming out might be a bit less harsh.

As an electronics hobbyist, seeing "flex" and "PCB" in the same sentence makes me cringe on principle. Solder joints don't like flex. In fact it's like kryptonite to them.

Go on. My delicate fingers love to bathe in the tears of electronics hobbyists.

Feel of course is another question. I guess rubber o-rings might solve the bottom-out issue though.

Not at all. O-rings are a wicked attempt to make travel shorter and bottoming out mushy. I don't need any stinking scissor switch imitations.