Does Your Ideal Mouse Exist?

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Hypersphere

14 Feb 2016, 17:20

Recently, I have been testing mice in an effort to find a suitable replacement for my Razer Deathadder Black Edition (DA BE). The mouse is still going strong, but it is starting to look scruffy from years of use, and it surely must fail eventually. Unfortunately, this mouse is no longer in production and the current Razer products seem not to be built as well. I am looking for a large right-handed corded (wired) mouse suitable for my palm grip that is solidly built. I also prefer a good optical sensor and a simple design with no more than 6 to 8 buttons.

After much searching, I am finding it difficult to find a mouse that meets all my expectations. Before embarking on this latest quest, I had never considered doing a mouse mod or a custom build for a mouse, but I am beginning to think this might be necessary in order to get the mouse that I want.

I tried the Razer DA Chroma, but I returned it because the scroll wheel rattles, especially when scrolling upward. Although I would prefer an optical sensor, at the moment my favorite alternative to the DA BE is the Razer Mamba Tournament Edition (TE); it is a laser mouse, but it has most of the characteristics I am seeking, including a quiet scroll wheel. However, the right-hand forward side button rattles, giving the mouse a cheap hollow feel whenever that button is touched. It is also difficult to press the side buttons without momentarily changing my grip.

Many reviews give high marks to the Logitech G502, but in the past I have had bad luck with Logitech mice. In particular, I am not fond of the dual-action scroll wheel whereby you can shift to a freely spinning wheel. I prefer a solidly built rubberized and notched wheel.

Here is a brief summary of mice I have tested recently:

Corsair M65 RGB: Solidly build with an aluminum frame, but I found the sniper button distracting. It also has a laser sensor rather than an optical sensor and it was somewhat too short and low for me.

Ducky Secret Mouse: Innovative construction -- made of PBT with accessible screws so that the mouse can be dismantled without removing the teflon feet or breaking any seals or labels. However, the mouse is too slippery to pick up easily without changing your grip.

Mionix Castor: Good build quality, but a bit too small for me.

Mionix Naos 7000: Good build quality and ergonomic shape, but too smooth to pick up easily without changing your grip.

Razer Deathadder Chroma: Excellent overall, but it has an unacceptably noisy scroll wheel.

Razer Mamba Tournament Edition: Very good overall and my current favorite. Good, quiet scroll wheel that also has horizontal scrolling. However, as noted above, the right-hand forward side button rattles, giving the mouse a cheap hollow feel whenever that button is touched. It is also difficult to press the side buttons without momentarily changing my grip.

Roccat Kone XTD Optical: Feels solid. The best scroll wheel I have ever tried; it also has horizontal scrolling. Unfortunately, the mouse has an ostentatious logo and the clear plastic used for the cosmetic LED stripes has a sticky feel. It is sad that Roccat has allowed purely cosmetic choices to interfere with functional characteristics of the mouse. They make a smaller version (the Kone Pure line) without the LED stripes, but it is too small for my palm grip.

Steelseries Rival 300: Feels solid. Excellent grips and pleasing rubberized surface. Quiet scroll wheel. Definitive switch clicks. Side buttons easy to locate with minimal change in grip; however, the side clicks are a bit loud. The LED lighting is somewhat uneven, and I am not fond of the logo.

Zowie EC1-A (2016 version with red logo): Perhaps the simplest design of all the mice I have tested. Excellent fit for my palm grip. Well-placed buttons (including those on the left side). The understated non-illuminated red logo is my favorite of all the mice I have tested thus far. In keeping with the minimalist design, there is no software. The switch for DPI settings is inconveniently located on the underside of the mouse. The DPI settings are indicated by a change in color of the scroll-wheel LED, and this LED cannot be inactivated. Unfortunately, the left-click switch sticks occasionally when dragging a window, and the surface is a bit too smooth, making it difficult to pick up the mouse without dropping it. The scroll wheel is also somewhat noisy.

Other mice I would like to try include the following (not yet tested):

Asus ROG Gladius: This one has some innovations, including swappable Omron switches and a detachable cable. Unfortunately, it has an illuminated logo with the words, "Republic of Gaming". They should lose the words and just have a symbolic logo. In addition, although it comes with replacement switches and encourages modding, it is necessary to remove the teflon feet to get to the screws. Asus should take a look at the Ducky Secret Mouse, which has completely accessible screws.

Cougar 550M: This one measures 135 x 70 x 45 mm (l x w x h), which I think is the largest of the group (the Rival 300 is close -- 133 x 70 x 45 mm). The size and shape should be to my liking, and reviews indicate that it is solidly built with a sturdy scroll wheel and excellent optical sensor. However, I am not fond of the oversized gaming logo and orange accents in the color scheme.

Gigabyte XM300: This mouse looks great on paper. It is a brand-new entry from Gigabyte that is expected to be available in the US by the end of February 2016. Its dimensions are similar to the Zowie EC1-A.

Some of the above mice would do nicely, but they are not quite ideal. It is tempting to think of what could be done by selecting the best characteristics from several mice and constructing a hybrid. In my case, I would like to take the best optical sensor and install it in a shell with the handsome looks of the Mamba TE, the size and shape of the Cougar 550m, the solid feel of the Rival 300, the sturdy scroll wheel from the Roccat Kone XTD, and the muted red logo from the Zowie. Frankenmouse!

Does your ideal mouse exist, or would you like to have one built to your specifications, like an individually tailored suit?

UPDATE: Here are my 3 favorite mice, as of May 18, 2017:
3mice1cs.png
3mice1cs.png (185.79 KiB) Viewed 2863 times
From left to right: Razer Deathadder Elite -- Logitech G403 -- Steelseries Rival 300
The image is a composite from each of the manufacturer's web sites.
Last edited by Hypersphere on 18 May 2017, 22:30, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

14 Feb 2016, 17:45

The closest "ideal" mouse is the Steelseries Sensei for me so far. Close second is the Razer Deathadder. I need to try a Kensington trackball sometime.

Matt_

14 Feb 2016, 17:52

The ideal mouse for me would be something between the MX Revolution (shape, comfort, superb wheel mechanism) and G500 (the shape is more neutral but still okay, it's lighter and does not need battery charging).

But I don't want to dive into yet another "let's find/make my ideal x" quest, so I'll stay with the G500 until it dies.

courtesi

14 Feb 2016, 21:11

I haven't been as picky with mice as I have been with keyboards. At work the usual cheapo $5 Dell mouse works just fine. At home I use a Microsoft Wheel Optical Mouse - otherwise known as the "WOM."

When shopping for a mouse I wanted something that looked like a professional mouse without all the gimmicks. For instance no fancy lighting and nothing that would suggest "gamer" features. With this criteria the WOM came highly recommended and for the past couple years has worked flawlessly.

The only other mouse at the time that met my criteria [on paper] were Zowie branded mice. Unfortunately from many reviews I gather the quality just isn't there.

Unlike keyboards, Mice don't seem to have the addictive "gotta try them all" quality for me.

Now that said ... :) I'm thinking of getting back into trackballs. My Microsoft Trackball Explorer has been dead for a while and while there is someone on ebay restoring them - they are very expensive. However something new has popped up!

Elecom M-DT2URBK
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252277557652
I'd like to give this a go in the future as it looks/sounds like a reborn modern MS TBE.

User avatar
Khers

14 Feb 2016, 21:23

I'm using and am rather pleased with my Logitech G602. My criterions when choosing it was that I wanted a wireless mouse with a regular optical sensor, a normal scroll wheel and a reasonably comfortable shape. The G602 checks all of those boxes, and the battery life is really rather good (I dislike having cords attached to stuff I move about, like a mouse, but I hate charging batteries).

I have a trackball itch that I need to do something about in the not too distant future, but up until then I'm happy with the G602.

User avatar
Hypersphere

14 Feb 2016, 21:49

@Khers: Yes, I keep pausing when I see an image of the Logitech G602. It has a pleasing shape that looks as though it would be ergonomic and comfortable, but thus far I have preferred using wired mice over wireless ones. However, particularly in the Logitech world, I prefer the look and features of their wireless mice over their wired mice. I wish they would produce wired versions of their wireless models! What is the scroll wheel like on the G602?

User avatar
Khers

14 Feb 2016, 22:01

@Hyper The scroll wheel is a regular one, not the dual-mode crap present on most Logitech mice these days, for which I share your lack of enthusiasm. The tactility of its action is a bit mushy though and I have used better scroll wheels (it's a little bit too much friction for my taste, though it has loosened up a little since new).

Anyway, for what it's worth, I've got two. One for work and one for home use. The only annoyance is that in order to get the multitude of buttons to do anything useful you need Logitechs software, which prompts me to do something I've already done on every boot and erroneously reports 0% battery every so often. I never thought I'd use the extra buttons, but four of the extra ones on the side are actually rather easy to reach and use.

amospalla
let's go

14 Feb 2016, 22:16

My ideal pointer device would be the ball/tracking mechanism of a CST L-TRAC with the four buttons and scroll of a Kensington Slimblade. Best of two worlds and something I don't think will ever exist.

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Madhias
BS TORPE

14 Feb 2016, 22:26

Hmm, I don't know exactly, since I am not buying different mice, and only having a Logitech G500 at home, and a G500 at work. It is for the right hand, but I use it also sometimes with the left hand. My plan is to buy a mouse which can be used with both hands, has Bluetooth and a USB cable connection, and is rather big.

User avatar
zslane

14 Feb 2016, 23:28

My ideal mouse doesn't exist, and maybe it can't. Aside from shape and materials, here's what I think would be kind of awesome: a wireless mouse that charges by merely being in contact with (or maybe just very, very near) a special mouse pad, sort of the way smart phones can charge by just resting on a "charging surface".

Another possibility is a mouse that doesn't need power at all because it doesn't use an LED that must reflect off of a surface to track movement. It could be all based on magnets instead perhaps. The mouse pad might still need to be a special surface that works in conjunction with the "magnetic mouse" to track its movement, but it would be the mouse pad rather than the mouse that would be connected to the machine, leaving the mouse still cable-free (and not needing a power source of any kind).

Oh, and I only need two buttons and a wheel in the center. I don't need a "gaming mouse".

User avatar
Muirium
µ

14 Feb 2016, 23:52

Wireless charging, eh. Funny, mine's done that for years now…

product-news-f44/apple-magic-keyboard-a ... 11802.html

Apple went and rendered the Mobee Magic Charger incompatible with last year's new version of the Magic Mouse. So I'm glad I have the original. USB charging years ahead of them, and via a wireless base.

Not exactly what you're looking for. But that's life.

User avatar
hammelgammler
Vintage

15 Feb 2016, 00:35

Well, I tested some of your listed mice as well.


Mionix Castor: Really liked the shape! But the scrollwheel makes really loud noises when scrolling down, and also doesn't felt quite right. Sadly my unit had a defect DPI-change-button.

Mionix Naos 7000: Totally agree with the smoothness, I just can't pick it up easily when my hands are dry. But the shape wasn't really right for me, I prefer something like the shape of the old Razer Mamba.

Razer Deathadder Chroma: The right side of the mouse was really bad in terms of ergonomics. Really bad in comparison with the old Razer Mamba for me. But aside from the shape, it was fine.

Roccat Kone XTD Optical
: In the beginning I liked it a lot, but please note that I tested a already used one, which was much stickier then a new one. A new unit is far too smooth for me to pick up easily, kind of like the Naos.

Steelseries Rival: It was a bit maeh. The overall feeling was quite nice, but far too long for me, and I also disliked the two main buttons. They felt kind of mushy.

Asus ROG Gladius: Overall it was good. The buttons were nice, the scrollwheel too, but the shape wasn't quite right for me.

Logitech G303: First liked it really much, and used it a lot. But after a while, I realized that the shape is only quite nice for office work, but not for gaming. The coating is awesome, and so are the main buttons!

Zowie FK1: Also like the G303, liked it a lot first, but after a while the form was a bit too low for me. The huano buttons were awesome though, I really liked them. The scrollwheel was awesome too, the coating not so much though.

Logitech MX Master: The shape is fantastic, I mean really it's totally awesome! But the weight and the max dpi of the sensor was a bit low for me at 1440p. I disliked the scrollwheel quite a lot too.

And a few mice more, but the most of them were tested in the local electronic market, so maybe it would be better to test them at home.


In general I value the ergonomics far more then everything else, and I would REALLY like to test that Gigabyte XM300. It looks fantastic, kind of like a ripoff of the old Razer Mamba with a state of the art sensor! I hope this one get's released soon.

Right now I use that old Razer Mamba, sometimes the old Logitech MX518 (sanded the right side off). Man I would love to get my hands on that Gigabyte XM300! The Steelseries Sensei Raw looks really nice too, I tested the normal Sensei in the market and it felt really good. Maybe that's a nice mouse for me, I should try it out. :)

jacobolus

15 Feb 2016, 04:46

My ideal mouses are (1) A 3-dimensional-rotation-sensing trackball. Unfortunately, these only exist in the form of research prototypes in 10-year-old academic papers. I haven’t gotten around to finishing my own yet. (2) A very precise low-latency stylus. The new Apple one is great, but I’m not sure if I can easily use it as input to a desktop computer. (3) A nice trackpoint right next to the home row on each hand of a split keyboard. This also doesn’t exist outside DIY projects, as far as I know.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

15 Feb 2016, 07:49

I have the G502 (for a little more than a year?) and I've been quite pleased with it. No malfunctions. No coating wear. No QC issues. Highly sensitive.

Why do you all dislike the scroll wheel?

I find it useful -- it's metal, so if I need to zoom in while playing an RTS game one flick gets me to ground level. The same goes for quickly scrolling to the top or bottom of a webpage when I don't want the movement to be immensely choppy. The smooth "blick" noise and feel -- if you can remotely tell what I mean -- is like the scroll wheel equivalent of a mechanical switch (plastic wheels being rubberdomes).

In terms of build quality, my only gripe is the teflon feet. They collect a bit of hair around the edges due to their layered design (which was designed to reduce impact and scratching on hard pads, I think). Layer 1 is a thin, felt like pad. 2 is a thin layer of PTFE. I just replaced the feet with some aftermarket PTFE cutouts and the mousing feel is greatly improved.

I'm using it on a hard mouse pad -- the Func F10.s, which I also recommend strongly. You have to wipe it off with your hand before use to remove overnight dust accumulation, but its smoothness is amazing.

As to the sniper button... You can bind that to whatever you want. -shrugs-

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

15 Feb 2016, 10:55

Recently switched from the Zowie FK2 to the Steelseries Rival 300 and I am very happy.
The issue with the scroll-wheel on the Zowie proved to be its fatal flaw. Normally it takes me a while to get accustomed to a new mouse, but the Rival 300 felt natural almost immediately. I was a bit apprehensive going for it as I've preferred claw grip for a long time and the Rival is quite a long mouse, but pleasantly surprised to find that switching back to palm grip after all these years has not been disruptive and I actually feel (ever so slightly) more competent in CS:GO with it.

ReleaseCandidate

15 Feb 2016, 11:14

zslane wrote: Another possibility is a mouse that doesn't need power at all because it doesn't use an LED that must reflect off of a surface to track movement.
Mice for Wacom (and other manufacturers) tablets don't need any power. The tablet does, of course ;)

User avatar
Laser
emacs -nw

15 Feb 2016, 12:31

Well, since you say "ideal mouse", by definition it won't exist :P

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ohaimark
Kingpin

15 Feb 2016, 15:42

Laser wrote: Well, since you say "ideal mouse", by definition it won't exist :P
Well well well... We have a philosopher here.

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zslane

15 Feb 2016, 17:51

ReleaseCandidate wrote:
zslane wrote: Another possibility is a mouse that doesn't need power at all because it doesn't use an LED that must reflect off of a surface to track movement.
Mice for Wacom (and other manufacturers) tablets don't need any power. The tablet does, of course ;)
Oh, that's right! I forgot about that.

I really need to look into upgrading my old Wacom tablet.

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Hypersphere

15 Feb 2016, 17:55

@hammelgammler: Looks like we share the trait of having impossibly high standards! ;)

I also very much look forward to testing the Gigabyte XM300, although I am trying not to allow my expectations to be too high.

@002: I had a similar reaction to the SS Rival 300. It felt natural right away. Although I do not like the SS logo, I am now using the Rival 300 at home. I still have the original Razer DA Black Edition at work.

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JinzoDefiler

18 Feb 2016, 10:27

Hi, By the way I'm new here. I figure this is a good post to break the ice on..

I have 2 Ideal mice.

Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (Not made anymore sadly and I am not paying 100 bucks for a mouse)

Logitech m500 Ever since my last intellimouse died I've been using these. I really like the long shape and form of the mouse. I have a big palm with stubby fingers. It fits it almost like a glove and doesn't aggravate my carpal tunnel at all.

But what I look for in a mouse is purely simplicity. I dont need 2324234 buttons. a forward and back button and 2 action buttons are good enough for me. I don't like most of the mice on the market today. They have too many options and settings and I just dont like the over-configuring of it. and 90% of the time i unintentionally switch the setting cause i hit the dpi button on accident.

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Hypersphere

18 Feb 2016, 18:50

@JinzoDefiler: Welcome to DT!

Yes, the old MS Intellimouse 3.0 was highly prized by many, and I still look for that type of shape and size in a mouse. My hands are not gigantic (18.5 cm from wrist to tip of middle finger) but I prefer large mice with a high bulbous rear end suitable for a palm grip.

Like you, I also prefer simplicity. I mostly use the conventional left/right click along with a clickable scroll wheel, and I like the wheel to be rubberized, notched, and quiet while still providing tactile feedback. I sometimes use two side buttons as well. And if the mouse has a DPI switch, one or two additional buttons for this are okay. I have sometimes used mice with as many as 8 buttons, but 5 to 7 is more usual. I also don't like glaring logos (especially those containing text) and/or garish lighting effects. Perhaps the novelty of RGB LEDs will wear off, so that future versions of mice will be more subdued in this regard.

Findecanor

18 Feb 2016, 19:45

I use a WowPen Joy, which gives my wrist a 45° slant, but it is wired, very light and does not have a very good sensor. It looks weird but feels like a regular mouse. The round mouse in Microsoft Sculpt Ergo Desktop has a more classic look but does actually have the same kind of grip and slanted wrist angle. The MS mouse is wireless and because of its batteries, too heavy. The WowPen joy has forward and back buttons, but at an odd place. The MS mouse has a Windows key ...

The ideal mouse for me would have/be:
- Shape so that it has the grip like the mice mentioned above
- Better sensor than the above
- Wireless, but not heavy as the MS mouse. The WowPen does not feel that much like a pen, but what pen-feel it does have it has because it is very light.
- Proper middle button that is NOT on a scrollwheel. Used when panning in document readers, CAD, drawing programs etc.
- A scrollwheel that is NOT the middle button
- Light buttons (the WowPen Joy's defaults are too heavy)

Besides that, I have been thinking for some time about a stylus for an input tablet (like Wacom) that would be fat and weighted at the bottom (like a Weeble toy) so that it would always stay upright and therefore be as easy to start using as a mouse would.
I also think that such a stylus should have a triangular cross-section to be able to find the button quickly - which is something that you don't do on a PenClic.
I never had a Weeble as a kid, but I did have a pen that was weighted at the bottom - although with the pen tip at the opposite end.

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JinzoDefiler

18 Feb 2016, 20:26

Hypersphere wrote:
Like you, I also prefer simplicity. I mostly use the conventional left/right click along with a clickable scroll wheel, and I like the wheel to be rubberized, notched, and quiet while still providing tactile feedback. I sometimes use two side buttons as well. And if the mouse has a DPI switch, one or two additional buttons for this are okay. I have sometimes used mice with as many as 8 buttons, but 5 to 7 is more usual. I also don't like glaring logos (especially those containing text) and/or garish lighting effects. Perhaps the novelty of RGB LEDs will wear off, so that future versions of mice will be more subdued in this regard.
Thats why I went with the m500. It had a similar size and shape. It was actually recommended to me by a friend of mine who also had the same issue with his intellimouse wearing out. And he tried this one at best buy and tried it and bought it.

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Hypersphere

18 Feb 2016, 22:35

The Logitech m500 looks good in many respects. However, because of my multiple-monitor setup, I would like to have some higher DPI options.

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JinzoDefiler

19 Feb 2016, 04:59

I can understand that. I have a dysgraphia which makes my fine muscle control kinda bad so I kinda hate high DPI things. too much twitching for me.

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Hypersphere

19 Feb 2016, 21:18

Situations like this benefit from a DPI selector button on the mouse. High DPI for traversing multiple monitors and low DPI for zeroing in on small areas.

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gogusrl

20 Feb 2016, 06:30

Got a Logitech G9x (and before that I had a G9 for ~5 years) and at work I have a CM Storm Xornet. If I could swap the scroll from the G9x to the Xornet I'd have the perfect mouse.

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JinzoDefiler

20 Feb 2016, 21:53

Thats the one thing I love about Logitech mice. the scroll wheel. actual metal. Mine has the option to go free spinning too. in my m500.

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JinzoDefiler

20 Feb 2016, 21:57

Hypersphere wrote: Situations like this benefit from a DPI selector button on the mouse. High DPI for traversing multiple monitors and low DPI for zeroing in on small areas.
For you ya. For me though Its kinda frustrating to have to switch modes. I am one the few PC gamer's out there who benefit from mouse smoothing. The less precision for me the better and it doesn't up my my minor twitches as much. While it will never make me 360 no scope suplex master it makes games fun and actually playable for me.

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