The Realforce 104 Euro Tour Reboot!

[Muirium]

Fixed. Thanks Cookie.



I only got it yesterday: an original IBM PC keyboard. I'll take some real pictures and post a thread about it once the sun next shows itself up here in Scotland. A Teensy is on the way so I can build Soarer's converter and hook it up to something a little more modern.

And then it's Topre Realforce vs. Model F buckling spring showdown! Two of the greats.

[Jmneuv]

Received - typing on the Realforce right now.

[cookie]

I am really curios how the Realforce feels compared with a HHKB

[Muirium]

You give them a good comparison review, Cookie, so I have something to read in the meantime!

[cookie]

I will, and I will take some high quality pictures as well

Yesterday I finally finished my CM QFR modification, I didn't painted the casing yet but I am tired to carry my other Keyboard from office to home all day... I soldered some blue switches in and I noticed that I don't like them anymore Oo

They feel so raw and not smooth to me, hope I will enjoy the Topre switches because they have the Rubberdome bump, I am totally in love with mx reds right now... lets see

[Muirium]

Reds are really sweet, it's true. What made you solder in some blues?

[002]

If you like the reds you might like 30g Topre switches. I used a 30g board for a long time - I got the most enjoyment from them when I just smashed the heck out of em which kinda defeats the purpose - so back to uniform 45g for me

[Neal]

I used to love reds and hate blacks (SWITCHES!) with a fiery passion, then I build a poker with lubed blacks and oh my. they are hands down the best switch I've ever typed on for a prolonged time. Don't think I could ever get used to anything with less force anymore.

[Muirium]

Once you go black, you don't turn back. (SWITCHES!)

The common Cherry switch I like least are browns. Awkward… Why can't blues and clears be the bad ones? Or whites!

[Jmneuv]

Is there a custom spring between a brown and a black spring? i find my browns just a tad too light, but find ergo clears returning too bouncy; in terms of tactility i find panda clears the best but then again, the black spring i find too stiff..
Actually the RF's 45g seems to have that force inbetween.

[Acanthophis]

Yeah, there are several springs with different actuation/bottom-out force.
Sherry sells them. I use the 62cN for my ErgoClears: https://www.originativeco.com/62g-springs

[Muirium]

Any idea how many springs you get? Surely it's not several bucks per spring!

[cookie]

Why I soldered the blue ones in it? Blues were my first mechanical switches and I loved them so much, then I wanted a TKL because I loved the Idea of more "precious mouse space" on my desktop. The only affordable tkl for me was the qfr, it was quite hard to get over here in germany and I wanted an iso layout so bad.

Now I completly removed the rubberized paint, removed the red backplate and painted it black, soldered the blue switches in it and I was really disapointed after assembling it together again and started to type on it... Blues feel so scratchy to me now. And I use my "second" Keyboard with reds as my main....

Today I got my HHKB and I am writing this right now on it, HHKB+Ansi is a real challange for me right now.
But first impression is verry nice

[Neal]

Any idea how many springs you get? Surely it's not several bucks per spring!

I thought it was 100 springs a pack, don't quote me on it though.

[Acanthophis]

Yep, it's 100 springs a pack.

[Muirium]

Thanks. Saner than I expected.

Cookie, you've gone from QFR to HHKB? That's quite an upgrade! What about ANSI don't you like? I'm the opposite — raised on ISO, never did like big ass enter ISO enter, and switched to ANSI when I could — and they actually feel quite similar to me. Different lengths of spacebar throw me off more than the handful of differently placed ISO vs. ANSI keys. But! Of course the ISO I'm comparing to is ISO UK which is the most ANSI of them all, I suppose.

Edit: Findecanor coincidentally just taught me what big ass enter really means.

[cookie]

I actually like the topre switches verry much, still no meh at all, verry smooth feel, nice sound, verry silent. But the layout... man the z and y are fucking with me pretty damn hard, and umlauts are hart to type, I configured USA Ansi international so I can type the umlauts with the alt GR key. I am missing my delete key right now, the default backspace is FN+Del and I configured it with the dip switch so that the key is BS by default. But now I have no idea how to get the delete key. Unfortunately FN + BS isn't delte

I think I will get used to the HHKB layout pretty fast, because I read a lot about it and I hat some time to think about all the common key combination I use for my daily work...

I like the long left shift and the position of all the brackets needed for developing!

[cookie]

The size of the spacebar is not that big of a deal for me. I activate the spacebar with my left thumb and he usually under the n button, so the spacebar coul'd be as they want as long it is located exactely there!

Ansi is still strange to me and I notice this more and more often when I am forced to type stuff differently

[Muirium]

I use thumbs for mods (Control, Option and Command mirror imaged on either side of the space bar) so a great big honkin' space like on my XT (10 units or damn close to it!) throws me quite a bit. Lots more lifting my hands that way. I like space bars itty bitty. I'm used to 5 units. I'd prefer 3, and could likely do just fine with a dinky little 2. My thumb shine on the space bars of my most heavily used keyboards is just under two units wide.

Not sure about 7bit mode though. What's that blank key? The single one down there? That's the space BAR?

[cookie]

Ahh okay that is what you mean, I wasn't thinking about the mods. Yeah now it makes sense

[Jmneuv]

Just sent it on to cookie.

Notes to follow.

Thank you 002 .. most generous.

[cookie]

Can't wait to get this little beauty, Did you guys noticed a little ratteling feeling after depressing the switch?
I noticed it yesterday, a verry light feeling and sound like the spring vibrating under the dome but not on all switches, they dont "THOK"that nice like the others... Is that a known issue?

[Jmneuv]

Didn't notice anything like that on the RF.. did you take your hhkb apart yet?

[cookie]

Not yet, I will try some things before... I thinkg there is some kind of spring vibration in it... I will figure something out soon!

[002]

Did you guys noticed a little ratteling feeling after depressing the switch?
I noticed it yesterday, a verry light feeling and sound like the spring vibrating under the dome but not on all switches, they dont "THOK"that nice like the others... Is that a known issue?

I've noticed this before. Others have commented on it before too. I can guess at a few reasons why it might occur. If you've ever compressed a spring with your fingers before you'll know that if you release it slowly and deliberately there is no vibration or anything like that, but if you slide your finger off it while it's compressed it's going to fly off somewhere right. Well I'm guessing that on some keys, the spring is doing this 'slide off' thing but obviously it has nowhere to fly off to so it's just bouncing against the dome and the PCB and you get that vibration feeling coming up through the keycap.
I wonder if the rubber sheet is somehow 'pinching' the spring or maybe it's bouncing back quicker than the spring is and allowing it to vibrate. It might be possible to demonstrate it with a Realforce keycap...I'll have a look later

[Jmneuv]

Hm, so might you need to re-center your springs or something? haha omg.. madness

[cookie]

that is exactely what I mean, and if I press the key down and release it gently, I have a Feeling on some switchtes like they are sticky and a little bit scrachy because of the Spring inside.... I want my "THOK" on all switches hahaha

I already have some nice ideas to fix this but on the other hand, such things shouldn't happen on a board at that price range :/

002 are there any solutions out there? Woul'd be nice if you could post some links where they discuss about this.

Thanks!

[cookie]

This is bugging me... god dammit!

[Muirium]

Isn't Topre meant to feel more or less the same *without* the spring?

[Jmneuv]

I know how you feel... this is what always happens when you direct too much geeky attention to a thing.
How about a "lets fix this hhkb euro tour"?