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Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 08 Feb 2019, 15:32
by Menuhin
I like BT and I installed Hasu BT controller with a 2600mAh battery on my Pro2 and ended up not having used the BT function for more than a few times with my iPad. Especially after I discovered the magic line to limit current draw on config.h:
#define USB_MAX_POWER_CONSUMPTION 60
(or any value 100 or under)
Now I can use most of my QMK keyboards even those with LEDs with my iPad just using a "camera connecting cable".

I hope PFU will keep the most basic and essentials of the current classic design, instead of messing with the current design and then discontinue the old ones - which will be a stupid disaster.
By the way, I think the humpback of the HHKB BT ruin the classic look of the design and turns the whole thing into an ugly alien.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 08 Feb 2019, 16:29
by Muirium
Agreed. Horrible obsolete AA batteries + humpback to accommodate them = bleurgh! Way to piss on the Picasso!

By the way, hanging a dingaling off the side of my iPad is something I just don’t do anymore now my HHKB is Bluetooth. Wireless wins.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 08 Feb 2019, 17:53
by stratokaster
I have a Filco Minila Air with “horrible obsolete AA batteries” that lasts 1.5 years on one set of said batteries.

I’d take this over a Li-Pol accu any day of the week. Things that require frequent charging suck.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 08 Feb 2019, 19:29
by Menuhin
Muirium wrote:
08 Feb 2019, 16:29
... hanging a dingaling off the side of my iPad is something I just don’t do anymore ...
I hope I am more willing to take my carefully lubed HHKB with me to visit public places...
And that lightning cable to USB connector can be another annoyance too: the lightning cable of Apple is the fastest to wear out and torn out among all other sorts of cables, I had to duct tape an original Apple lightning cable many many times.
Spoiler:
Image
Hope there'll be more affordable bluetooth keyboard support, so it makes sense to pair the bluetooth pcb modules with cheaper plastics instead of the premium metal cases.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 09 Feb 2019, 21:04
by Paspie
I reckon an ISO HHKB (seen here in UK layout) would look like this:

Image

The shortened Backspace is of course, borrowed from the JP version.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 09 Feb 2019, 23:59
by Muirium
Yup. That’s what I was thinking, as well.

The only thing you’d lose from the function layer is the ability to send Clear as well as Delete and Backspace; not that anyone uses that besides me, I’m sure.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 02:18
by Findecanor
A little off-topic here:
Muirium wrote:
09 Feb 2019, 23:59
The only thing you’d lose from the function layer is the ability to send Clear as well as Delete and Backspace; not that anyone uses that besides me, I’m sure.
The HHKB has a "Clear" key code ... That's interesting.
Apparently it is only enabled in Mac mode, and you use macOS only, right?

I wonder what USB key code it sends. On the Apple Aluminium keyboards, "Num Lock" and "Clear" are overloaded on the same key: being Clear on MacOS and Num Lock on other systems.
There is also a dedicated "Clear" code (0x9c) in the USB standard. I read somewhere than Linux bugs out when the latter is in a report format that uses bitmaps, which means that firmwares don't support the key in NKRO mode. The key in 6KRO format might work on Linux though... I'll have to try it to find out.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 04:34
by Muirium
Yes, mine certainly does. Check out Layer 1 in my Unimap. I honour the “Delete” (really Backspace) key’s front legend of “Clear” by sending, yup, Num Lock. Macs interpret it as Clear, as it’s always been on their full-size keyboards, and I use it in a few shortcuts of my own, as well as occasional spreadsheets.

Ironies continue. Num Lock has appeared on the Mac before: my PowerBook has just such a key on its function row, equipped with a green status light. It toggles the integrated numpad, just like an SSK! Invisible to the OS.

As for the stock HHKB? I can’t remember. Been more than a year since I swapped out the controller for Hasu’s. Far as I remember, Clear is indeed returned by Fn+Delete. Could be either by the appropriate USB HID key code, or perhaps again via Num Lock! Anyone care to try it on Linux? I could be misremembering based on what I’ve done since, but I think I also used it then.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 18:11
by Hypersphere
I love the HHKB Pro 2 as it is. I hope they don't mess with the form factor, layout, or overall aesthetics.

Things people have complained about or wished for in the HHKB include elimination of the USB ports or upgrading them to a higher standard and having plate-mounted Topre switches instead of case-mounted switches.

I would be okay with whatever they wanted to do with the USB ports -- I don't use them anyway. However, I am not so sure about plate-mounted switches. I have my RF boards for that. I enjoy the resiliency of the case-mounted switches in my HHKB -- easier on the fingers when typing for extended periods.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 19:05
by Findecanor
I have only ever owned a HHKB Lite, but I have a full-size Realforce.
My fear is that it would get RGB backlighting and OEM-profile keycaps like Realforce did ...

Topre profile is best IMHO, although maybe with the exception of the space bar having a sharp edge and the modifiers on the bottom row not being convex.
If I were a designer, I would either make it BT or make it flat -- with a USB hub in a detachable foot.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 20:08
by abrahamstechnology
I just wish that someone would make cheap aftermarket springs and domes.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 20:28
by Muirium
Cheap? Who'd want that? That's not the HHKB crowd!

I haven't been paying close attention, but the Realforce R2 seems pretty decent. Nothing revolutionary—Where. Is. The. Freaking. Bluetooth already?—but looks to be a reasonable second generation refresh of the teenaged classic. Surely they didn't screw up the caps on that one? MX compatibility is what the RGB model is for, I'd imagine.

(Yes, I'm well and truly an HHKB guy. The Realforce is a distant afterthought for me. I'm not being facetious when I show I'm not 100% up on recent developments. I've heard about it, but forgotten, as the original Realforce is quite enough oversized Topre for me.)

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 10 Feb 2019, 20:56
by Hypersphere
I like my R2 RF TKL PFU Edition very much. It is a worthy alternate to the HHKB for those who would like a more solid feel and a conventional layout in a quality Topre-switch keyboard.

The only problems with the RF are that it is not 60% and in HHKB layout, or with a detachable cable. Oh, wait ....

Well, perhaps there is a place for an HHKB with a steel plate instead of case-mounted switches.

I do wish that my R2 RF were completely programmable, because I do need that HHKB layout. Although I connect it with a Hasu USB-USB converter, there are two drawbacks. The converter is not always recognized when rebooting or switching to another computer, so that it has to be disconnected and reconnected to the computer. In addition, not every computer needs the same remapping, so to use the converter with multiple keyboards requires either reflashing or having multiple converters -- at about $60 per unit.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 11 Feb 2019, 21:29
by Paspie
The German layout is one of the most stringent of those in the Latin ISO family, with its requirements for symbols on some keys and the use of translated functions. Below is my attempt to adapt these to the HHKB. One of the HHKB-specific functions I translated to 'Halt' but I was not confident enough to try the rest.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/qh5 ... b.png?dl=0

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 11 Feb 2019, 21:58
by Muirium
I already want that µ key!

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 11 Feb 2019, 23:54
by Hypersphere
A µ key could be nice, although I would want a Hyper key.

Iso just seems wrong on an HHKB. I would want the Backspace directly above an ANSI Return/Enter key, and Backspace needs to be at least 1.25u for me.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 00:02
by samuelcable
abrahamstechnology wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 20:08
I just wish that someone would make cheap aftermarket springs and domes.
usually with non-vintage things in this hobby you have to pay more if you want more quality... unfortunately :oops:

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 00:09
by Findecanor
Muirium wrote:
11 Feb 2019, 21:58
I already want that µ key!
It's just standard German convention for showing the Alt Gr-layer, like the € on E and @ on Q. You could swap those from a German-language Realforce ...

Anyway... The right way to do ISO HHKB is to split the space bar. :evilgeek:

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 01:36
by Paspie
Findecanor wrote:
12 Feb 2019, 00:09
Muirium wrote:
11 Feb 2019, 21:58
I already want that µ key!
It's just standard German convention for showing the Alt Gr-layer, like the € on E and @ on Q. You could swap those from a German-language Realforce ...

Anyway... The right way to do ISO HHKB is to split the space bar. :evilgeek:
I think the standards bodies try to maintain a wide spacebar for ambidexterity, some non-Latin scripts being an exception.

My interest is making the HHKB accessible to more people.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 16:33
by Paspie
Disregarding local layouts for a moment, if PFU plans on reworking the firmware of the Pro line, I hope they intend to sort out the mess of keycode configurations that determine the different modes. Only three keys on the current keyboard can currently adopt multiple keycodes between modes - Delete/Backspace/Clear and the Super keys. The only modes this board should need are a 'standard' mode incorporating everything from Lite and 'forbidden' Sun mode, and a Mac mode for the reversed Delete key and audio-related keycodes. The whole business around the Super keys behaving like muhenkan and henkan under *nix should be eradicated.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 17:20
by Muirium
Local! I’m an ANSI guy myself, but the outside world beyond the US belongs overwhelmingly to ISO. It’s like how Farenheit and foot-pounds seem “universal” until your first moment outside “the country.” Welcome to the world.

As for your point, I can’t say I understand what that’s about, as my use of Unix is always mediated by Apple. Perhaps legacy from Prof. Wada’s original concept and implementation? Beats me. The HHKB I love is all about that navigation Fn layer!

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 17:57
by Paspie
Muirium wrote:
12 Feb 2019, 17:20
As for your point, I can’t say I understand what that’s about, as my use of Unix is always mediated by Apple. Perhaps legacy from Prof. Wada’s original concept and implementation? Beats me. The HHKB I love is all about that navigation Fn layer!
My understanding is that Dr. Waka was disgruntled about how Sun Microsystems was constantly changing their keyboard in the 90s and was compelled to develop his own, based on the alphanumeric section of the Sun Type 3 keyboard. The original HHKB from 1996 was available not only with an ADB plug for Macs but also a version that would work with Sun computers, before USB made both protocols obsolete.

The '◇' diamond character on the Super keys was first featured on the Sun Type 4 board, although on that board and the Type 5 they were referred to as Meta keys. Bizarrely, the Type 4 board came with an ISO-style Enter key on all versions, but that's another story.

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 12 Feb 2019, 22:18
by webwit
Still waiting for the HHKB qHACK, with full programmability, so the labels are just examples.

Image

Image

Re: HHKB refresh in 2019?

Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 00:33
by Hypersphere
Looks like the qHack is getting closer to one of my preferences -- a keyboard with no keys large enough to require any kind of stabilizers. It would be great to banish stabilizer rattle by eliminating stabilizers!

For me, no key needs to be larger than 1.75u -- even the space bar(s).