Switch height DIN standard (maybe) found

User avatar
zrrion

26 Jan 2021, 21:13

While looking for info on some Remington/Facit typewriters I came upon this page which includes some advertising pages for the typewriter in question. Among those advertisements it drops this chunk of text:
Image

notably mentioning DIN 66234 as the reason for the shorter height keyboard. The wording present is unclear as to the scope of this particular standard. It might only apply to typewriters, all we know is that it meets the standard for "this type of office equipment" whatever that actually entails. Interesting that it mentions the height to the "H" key specifically as that is likely a specific part of the standard. I've only heard vague references to "some DIN standard" when people talk about why switches are shorter, so if this is not new information let me know.

Does anyone out there have access to these standards that could look this one up to verify what all this one applies to? (and any general info on this typewriter would be cool too)

User avatar
JP!

26 Jan 2021, 21:26

I found this. There is a full text download link which may be of interest to you.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Exa ... g1_8958738

xxhellfirexx

26 Jan 2021, 23:44

This is covered in "ISO TS 09241-411-2012" and "ISO 09241-400-2007". The standard says "The home row height of the keyboard shall not exceed 35 mm." That fits with the advertisement snippet you included and the measurement I took for my IBM XT.

https://imgur.com/a/ysXe5yY

It also has a description that reads "The visible surfaces of the keyboard shall be matt-finish." and "Primary legends and symbols shall have a minimum luminance contrast ratio of at least 3:1." I am not sure if that has any effect in making all the keyboards beige.

User avatar
zrrion

26 Jan 2021, 23:48

the requirement for a matte finish would account for the shift to textured caps instead of smooth ones

xxhellfirexx

26 Jan 2021, 23:50

Well, here is a link to all the ISO standards if you want to look into it further.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20175520

User avatar
kps

27 Jan 2021, 01:17

Yes, it's true: the Germans killed the beam spring.

In An overview of standards and guidelines for visual display terminals it is written,
The first recommendation, having the elbows at right angles and the forearms horizontal, was adopted in the German DIN standard. For this posture, the distance between the forearms and the upper side of the thigh is between 100 and 130 mm depending on operator body size. In order to allow sufficient leg room, the table top and keyboard combined cannot be thicker than about 100 mm. According to DIN 66234, the thickness of the keyboard, measured at the home row, must be limited to 30 mm.

Recent research has not added much to Lundervold's observations. However, a couple of studies have raised
questions about the appropriateness of the 90 degree elbow angle recommendation. Zipp et al (1980) measured EMG
in several muscles during a typing task. They observed that there is a flat minimum in electromyographic (EMG) activity for elbow angles between 90 and 75 degrees. Their results therefore support the idea that the forearm should slope upwards with an elbow angle less than 90 degrees.

The findings of Zipp and his co-workers are supported by those of Grandjean et al (1982), who found that typists generally prefer to elevate the forearms, that is, to decrease the elbow angle. The authors pointed out that the upper arms were usually not hanging down vertically but were slightly elevated both sagittalty and frontally
This seems to imply that the Germans were wrong to kill the beam spring, even under the reasonable assumption that people are too stupid to adjust their desk.

In Standards factor: the emergence of ISO 9241 and some of its parts it is mentioned that “the U.S. voted to disapprove the DIS of ISO 9241-4, Keyboard requirements”, but not why.

User avatar
TNT

27 Jan 2021, 16:26

kps wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 01:17
Yes, it's true: the Germans killed the beam spring.
You're telling me if it wasn't for them I could be typing this on a brandnew and affordable beamspring keyboard?

Those fuckers. How can they keep getting away with this? Someone should make them pay :evil:

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

27 Jan 2021, 17:51

TNT wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 16:26
kps wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 01:17
Yes, it's true: the Germans killed the beam spring.
You're telling me if it wasn't for them I could be typing this on a brandnew and affordable beamspring keyboard?
No. You would be typing on an insanely high/thick rubber dome keyboard.

xxhellfirexx

28 Jan 2021, 01:40

kbdfr wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 17:51
TNT wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 16:26
kps wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 01:17
Yes, it's true: the Germans killed the beam spring.
You're telling me if it wasn't for them I could be typing this on a brandnew and affordable beamspring keyboard?
No. You would be typing on an insanely high/thick rubber dome keyboard.
You basically get something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274662482027

Image

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