KBP V60 Datacomp Brown Alps

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Hypersphere

05 Sep 2018, 23:14

Introduction

Some time ago, Daniel from KBP kindly sent me an engineering sample of a KBP V60 keyboard with Datacomp Brown Alps for review. Unfortunately, other obligations from life and work intervened, preventing me from getting to the review until now. In the meantime, this model has become available through MechanicalKeyboards.com and probably other retailers, and there have been some reviews by MechMerlin and others. Therefore, this will be a very brief synopsis of my impressions of the keyboard.

Form Factor and Layout

As shown in the images below, the V60 is a 60% keyboard that includes only the alpha keys and modifiers found in the main typing area of a full-size keyboard. F-keys and navigation keys are accessed via the Fn key. A recessed mini-USB connector is located in the left rear of the case. The case is a durable plastic shell provided with four rubber strips to keep the board from sliding on the desk. I like the KBP cases -- the design provides a resonant chamber that sounds much better to me than aluminum tray-style cases.
V60fullview.jpg
V60fullview.jpg (70.16 KiB) Viewed 4278 times
v60_CloseLeft_small.jpg
v60_CloseLeft_small.jpg (66.36 KiB) Viewed 4278 times
The layout is the standard 61-key US ANSI version as found in the Pok3r and various other 60% keyboards. The configuration can be changed to some extent by various settings of the six DIP switches located on the underside of the keyboard.

Keycaps and LEDs

This version of the keyboard came with two-tone front-printed ABS keycaps as shown in the two images. The close-up view of the left side of the board shows the sole LED to indicate activation of the Caps Lock key.

Switches

The switches are a redesign of simplified Alps by Datacomp. Thus, there are now two companies producing new Alps-type switches: Datacomp and Matias. The so-called Brown Alps in this keyboard are nothing like the original Brown Alps switches. The originals have extreme tactility, tight tolerances, and slits in the top housing giving them a solid heavy feel with minimal wobble and noise. The Datacomp Brown Alps are tactile rather than clicky, but the tactility is mild, and the switches are somewhat wobbly and rather noisy (although not nearly as noisy as Matias Click switches).

The modifier keys rattle, but this can usually be improved by lubing the stabilizers. The spacebar was a pleasant surprise -- it emits a satisfying "thunk" rather than a hollow rattle.

Overall Conclusion

The KBP V60 with Datacomp Brown Alps switches is a serviceable 60% US ANSI keyboard. It might appeal to those who are looking for a change from Cherry mx switches or clones. Datacomp Brown Alps should not be confused with original Brown Alps switches. Nevertheless, Datacomp and Matias have enabled keyboard enthusiasts to purchase new keyboards with Alps-type switches rather than trying to find used vintage Alps boards in excellent condition.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

06 Sep 2018, 01:36

It's a shame no one has worked to reproduce the original Alps SKCM switches. It seems like they would have a market--I find it hard to believe that anyone would prefer the simplified switches to a proper modern version of blue Alps.

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Elrick

06 Sep 2018, 02:34

Techno Trousers wrote: It's a shame no one has worked to reproduce the original Alps SKCM switches. It seems like they would have a market--I find it hard to believe that anyone would prefer the simplified switches to a proper modern version of blue Alps.
Don't worry, the Chinese already know the up take of Alps switches and may even suggest that in the near future someone may indeed provide new hardware, using the exact design internals of those switches.

Just have a little faith when it comes to waiting for the arrival of the "Alps" train, it may be running a little late but it shall be here before long ;) .

User avatar
Elrick

06 Sep 2018, 03:19

Hypersphere wrote: Introduction

Switches

The switches are a redesign of simplified Alps by Datacomp. Thus, there are now two companies producing new Alps-type switches: Datacomp and Matias. The Datacomp Brown Alps are tactile rather than clicky, but the tactility is mild, and the switches are somewhat wobbly and rather noisy (although not nearly as noisy as Matias Click switches).

The modifier keys rattle, but this can usually be improved by lubing the stabilizers. The spacebar was a pleasant surprise -- it emits a satisfying "thunk" rather than a hollow rattle.

Overall Conclusion

The KBP V60 with Datacomp Brown Alps switches is a serviceable 60% US ANSI keyboard. It might appeal to those who are looking for a change from Cherry mx switches or clones. Datacomp Brown Alps should not be confused with original Brown Alps switches. Nevertheless, Datacomp and Matias have enabled keyboard enthusiasts to purchase new keyboards with Alps-type switches rather than trying to find used vintage Alps boards in excellent condition.
Really do appreciate your review here, concerning the Datacomp Alps release.

MassDrop is currently running their Group Buy with the exact same keyboard using XM Clicky (Xiang Min) switches but have no other info concerning these switches.

Would anyone be so kind as to let me know what these new switches are like?

User avatar
Hypersphere

16 Sep 2018, 18:39

@Elrick: Have you looked at the DT wiki article on XM switches? There are also scattered comments to be found on the web via Google. One comment on the InstallGentoo wiki said, "The two most popular Simplified White switches are the Fukka and the XM. The XM, which was some older Filco Zero models and other vintage keyboards, is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch." I have not tried XM switches myself.

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abrahamstechnology

17 Sep 2018, 02:46

There's also these switches, probably Liontech:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 42800.html

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Elrick

17 Sep 2018, 05:19

Hypersphere wrote: @Elrick: Have you looked at the DT wiki article on XM switches? The XM, which was some older Filco Zero models and other vintage keyboards, is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch."[/i] I have not tried XM switches myself.
Thank you for the heads up Hypersphere, much appreciated.

That was what stopped me from buying the MD models, simply due to this suspicion of being 'Terrible'.

Far better to stick with traditional complicated White Alps than risking buying the latter day produced junk. Shame they never really bothered to copy the exact mechanism inside these older SKCM models.

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abrahamstechnology

17 Sep 2018, 14:34

Elrick wrote:
Hypersphere wrote: @Elrick: Have you looked at the DT wiki article on XM switches? The XM, which was some older Filco Zero models and other vintage keyboards, is almost universally considered to be a terrible switch."[/i] I have not tried XM switches myself.
Far better to stick with traditional complicated White Alps than risking buying the latter day produced junk. Shame they never really bothered to copy the exact mechanism inside these older SKCM models.
The worst Alps experience for me were Tai-Hao blues. Which is a shame, as I had high hopes for them, they had such inconsistent clicks, and of the few I left in my AT101's function row, they all went practically linear! I don't know if the AliExpress seller scammed me and sold me factory rejects, or testing samples that were already tested 20 million times, but I'm glad I only bought a few. Copper seems like a terrible material for a click leaf anyway, since it's very easy to bend. For now I'm sticking to Matias, as the wide steel click leaf is tried and true.

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Hypersphere

17 Sep 2018, 19:40

Matias Click switches certainly have a definite "click" -- they are among the loudest switches I have ever encountered. They also have decent tactility. I liked them fairly well until I tried some good examples of genuine SKCM Alps in excellent condition.

One of my favorite Alps boards is a Northgate 101 US ANSI with SKCM pine White Alps that I have "top modded" with sliders and springs from Orange Alps switches.

If you prefer tactility without the click, the supreme tactile switch (in my experience) is the vintage SKCM Alps Brown, which is unlike any other SKCM Alps switch. Instead of the later Alps design with a standard tactile leaf, SKCM Brown Alps have a tactile assembly consisting of a modified switch plate with a tactile leaf attached. The tolerances are tight, giving the switch a heavier feel than its spring weight would suggest and imparting the sensation of a quality-built machine.

As with so many things, manufacturers have abandoned earlier designs that were often complex and expensive to produce with simplified cheaper versions.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

17 Sep 2018, 20:13

Hypersphere wrote: As with so many things, manufacturers have abandoned earlier designs that were often complex and expensive to produce with simplified cheaper versions.
That truly was the story of the 1990s. Keyboards got squeezed, and most users never much noticed. That’s where the whole “mechanical” keyboard movement developed. Really what we’re after is decent keyboards, instead of e-waste ready made trash. We’re the pushback. Niche, yes, but profitable for some.

I know what you mean about tactility. I just can’t agree that anything other than Topre deserves the title “supreme tactile switch”. There’s more than just one kind of tactility, is the the thing. Topre has no sharp tactile event; being all about the whole progressive swing. If the tactility you want is more of a silent click, then you’re better off elsewhere. Can’t say I’ve explored that much myself though. I’m all about the swing.

Fairly often when I’m typing, I’m wearing headphones. (Bose QC35 noise cancelling cans.) Isolated from keyboard noise, Model F provides silent sharp tactility. Can’t say I’m drawn to it over Topre, but it’s a taste I can imagine easily enough.

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Hypersphere

17 Sep 2018, 21:43

@Muirium: I should always remember that you might be reading my posts and take greater care in refining my language! Now I realize it was a poor choice of words to say that SKCM Brown Alps were the "supreme tactile switch". I had intended to say that SKCM Brown Alps offered perhaps the most pronounced tactily of any switch I have tried.

I agree about the sensation of drawn-out tactility with Topre. It's related to the shape of the force-displacement curve. However, our sensation of tactility is also related to the physical concept of impulse, which is force x time. Although force-displacement curves by definition display only force and distance and not time, it is nonetheless instructive to look at these curves for different keyboard switches, preferably determined under the same conditions.

These curves help me to understand why I find mx clears so tiring -- although the actuation energy is comparatively low, the total energy under the "press" curve is the highest of the switches sampled here. My style is to bottom-out each keystroke, so I am pressing clears throughout the steeply rising end-portion of the curve.

Here is a sample of such curves generated by HaaTa (see, for example, https://plot.ly/~haata/171.embed):
Spoiler:
topre45-50.png
topre45-50.png (38.82 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Topre 45g, "Total energy" = 161 gfmm, nominal actuation force = 45gf, actuation energy = ?
Spoiler:
Topre55-50.png
Topre55-50.png (43.2 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Topre 55g, Total energy = 235 gfmm, nominal actuation force = 69 gf, actuation energy = ?
Spoiler:
CherrymxBrown50.png
CherrymxBrown50.png (38.13 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Cherry mx Brown, Total energy = 166 gfmm, actuation force = 38 gf, actuation energy = 73 gfmm
Spoiler:
CherrymxClear50.png
CherrymxClear50.png (38.24 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Cherry mx Clear, Total energy = 242 gfmm, actuation force = 51gf, actuation energy = 107 gfmm
Spoiler:
AlpsSKCMOrange.png
AlpsSKCMOrange.png (100.35 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Alps SKCM Orange, Total energy = 168 gfmm, actuation force = 48 gf, actuation energy = 94 gfmm
Spoiler:
AlpsSKCMBrown50.png
AlpsSKCMBrown50.png (40.12 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Alps SMCM Brown, Total energy = 222 gfmm, actuation force = 69 gf, actuation energy = 111 gfmm
Spoiler:
AlpsSKCMBlue50.png
AlpsSKCMBlue50.png (38.2 KiB) Viewed 4046 times
Alps SKCM Blue, Total energy = 167 gfmm, actuation force = 49gf, actuation energy = 96 gfmm
Spoiler:
MatiasClick50.png
MatiasClick50.png (38.8 KiB) Viewed 4030 times
Matias Click, Total energy = 200gfmm, actuation force = 48gf, actuation energy = 99 gfmm
Spoiler:
MatiasQuiet50.png
MatiasQuiet50.png (38.32 KiB) Viewed 4030 times
Matias Quiet, Total energy = 206 gfmm, actuation force = 48 gf, actuation energy = 99 gfmm

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