![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Keymacs keyboard review (Matias Clicky)
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Today we look at the Keymacs keyboard! A high-end machined metal brick aimed towards Emacs users. This thing is quite the piece of kit - also, it's a good time to revisit Matiases a little bit! ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
Well, colour me excited!
Edit: Now watched - nice review! Bit of a coincidence that it ended with the words "Colour me impressed!"
Edit: Now watched - nice review! Bit of a coincidence that it ended with the words "Colour me impressed!"
- thefarside
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: IBM 4704 F107
- Main mouse: Old, boring Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling spring
Nice review! Looks like an amazing recreation. I wonder if the creator has any plans beyond this version.
- Go-Kart
- Location: England
- Main keyboard: HHKB & AnyKey
- Main mouse: Orochi v2
- Favorite switch: Topre 45 g & MaxiSwitch D/S
I have been waiting for you to get your hands on one of these, Chyros! Glad to see it didn't disappoint.
I must say, I could never envision spending such money on a keyboard but if there was a board that would tip me over the edge, it'd be a Keymacs. What switches would I choose though...?
I must say, I could never envision spending such money on a keyboard but if there was a board that would tip me over the edge, it'd be a Keymacs. What switches would I choose though...?
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
The MX blue comparison had me hooting in laughter! Aye, not a fair fight, no contest at all.
Pity the brown Alps model is out of stock. That’s all that’s keeping me from nabbing it. (Ahem. And the fact it costs as much as my laptop.)
The programming looks a lot of shite, but. You really prefer that workflow over QMK on Xwhatsit Model F? I agree they’re nerdy and awkward, but Pandrew’s editor (and Hasu’s original TMK) work faultlessly, even on Safari. It’s the bit between web layout and getting the thing onto your keyboard where the experience nosedives. Which is, I guess, where VIA/VIAL comes in. I tried a bit of that but I’d already had enough! I had my Kishsaver and the beamspring the way I wanted it, it was time for cold beer and enjoying the things.
Pity the brown Alps model is out of stock. That’s all that’s keeping me from nabbing it. (Ahem. And the fact it costs as much as my laptop.)
The programming looks a lot of shite, but. You really prefer that workflow over QMK on Xwhatsit Model F? I agree they’re nerdy and awkward, but Pandrew’s editor (and Hasu’s original TMK) work faultlessly, even on Safari. It’s the bit between web layout and getting the thing onto your keyboard where the experience nosedives. Which is, I guess, where VIA/VIAL comes in. I tried a bit of that but I’d already had enough! I had my Kishsaver and the beamspring the way I wanted it, it was time for cold beer and enjoying the things.
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
Ah yes, the good old "I'd buy this premium product if only a slightly more premium model was in stock, but I'll have you know I own a very expensive laptop, a kishsaver and a beamspring keyboard" routineMuirium wrote: ↑22 Jan 2022, 01:43Pity the brown Alps model is out of stock. That’s all that’s keeping me from nabbing it. (Ahem. And the fact it costs as much as my laptop.)
[...]
I tried a bit of that but I’d already had enough! I had my Kishsaver and the beamspring the way I wanted it, it was time for cold beer and enjoying the things.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Don’t forget the part when I tell you how little I got those IBMs for. That’s the kicker.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
I consider the M1 Air fairly priced. I paid a bit more for my last laptop: in 2013. Hoping this one lasts about as long.
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
By the way, those thicc caps. How do they compare with Micro Switch SD series?
![Image](https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=8924)
I'm intrigued by the new material and casting method. How do they feel vs. ABS and PBT? Are they smooth to the touch, like ABS or are they a bit more "textured" like PBT?
And, uh, any chance you could pop some alphas on a bigfoot Alps board like like an SGI Granite for profile comparison? No reason, honest…![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
I'm intrigued by the new material and casting method. How do they feel vs. ABS and PBT? Are they smooth to the touch, like ABS or are they a bit more "textured" like PBT?
And, uh, any chance you could pop some alphas on a bigfoot Alps board like like an SGI Granite for profile comparison? No reason, honest…
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah, I really do. So keep in mind that the F77 had that VIA package as well, and even with a seasoned QMK user on Discord and screenshare I couldn't get the damn thing to work. I guess it just doesn't rhyme with me, but I can NEVER get that stuff to work well. Plus it's too complicated to remember if you don't use it for a bit. I'd have to start all over again already now, for example.Muirium wrote: ↑22 Jan 2022, 01:43The MX blue comparison had me hooting in laughter! Aye, not a fair fight, no contest at all.
Pity the brown Alps model is out of stock. That’s all that’s keeping me from nabbing it. (Ahem. And the fact it costs as much as my laptop.)
The programming looks a lot of shite, but. You really prefer that workflow over QMK on Xwhatsit Model F? I agree they’re nerdy and awkward, but Pandrew’s editor (and Hasu’s original TMK) work faultlessly, even on Safari. It’s the bit between web layout and getting the thing onto your keyboard where the experience nosedives. Which is, I guess, where VIA/VIAL comes in. I tried a bit of that but I’d already had enough! I had my Kishsaver and the beamspring the way I wanted it, it was time for cold beer and enjoying the things.
No promises, but who knows, something might just be coming your wayMuirium wrote: ↑22 Jan 2022, 10:35By the way, those thicc caps. How do they compare with Micro Switch SD series?
I'm intrigued by the new material and casting method. How do they feel vs. ABS and PBT? Are they smooth to the touch, like ABS or are they a bit more "textured" like PBT?
And, uh, any chance you could pop some alphas on a bigfoot Alps board like like an SGI Granite for profile comparison? No reason, honest…![]()
The walls are slightly thinner I think but the interior is definitely more solid. This is a major difference between casting and injecting; injecting can't do solid blocks very well (heating/drying differences give warping and things like that), whereas casting is self-accelerating so blocks are actually easier.
The texture feels like neither I'd say. It's not slick like ABS but it's not as coarsely textured as most PBT caps are either. The keys feel remarkably dry and the texture is very fine. It's almost like you're typing on the tiniest gauge of sandpaper.
- lispnick
- Location: Czechia
- Main keyboard: Keymacs A620N-88 Rev. A
- Main mouse: Kensington SlimBlade Trackball
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Orange
- Contact:
That might have something to do with the fact that the aluminium bases I use for creating the moulds are indeed sand-blasted to get rid of the tool marks. This makes the castings look matte and slightly rough and the sand-blasted texture is preserved on the final keycap.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Cool. Rough textured caps are quite my thing. Trouble is: they soon wear smooth if they're ABS. How durable do you reckon yours are?
I think the big difference in sound between ABS and PBT may be the speed of sound in both of them. PBT is much more treble for a given thickness than bassy ABS. I bet the speed of sound in PBT is quite a bit faster. A bit like throwing stones on a frozen lake: ice sounds extra sharp and echoes really ghostly, as sound travels through it more than 10X its speed in air.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
I think the big difference in sound between ABS and PBT may be the speed of sound in both of them. PBT is much more treble for a given thickness than bassy ABS. I bet the speed of sound in PBT is quite a bit faster. A bit like throwing stones on a frozen lake: ice sounds extra sharp and echoes really ghostly, as sound travels through it more than 10X its speed in air.
![Surprised :o](./images/smilies/icon_e_surprised.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
- lispnick
- Location: Czechia
- Main keyboard: Keymacs A620N-88 Rev. A
- Main mouse: Kensington SlimBlade Trackball
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Orange
- Contact:
Only time will tell.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
Generally, speed of sound is closely related to hardness or rigidity. Indeed, in a perfectly rigid body, the speed of sound would formally be infinite (disturbances propagating instantly). (Speed of sound)^2 is linear in the elastic modulus (and depends inversely on the density of the material as well).Muirium wrote: ↑23 Jan 2022, 14:49I think the big difference in sound between ABS and PBT may be the speed of sound in both of them. PBT is much more treble for a given thickness than bassy ABS. I bet the speed of sound in PBT is quite a bit faster. A bit like throwing stones on a frozen lake: ice sounds extra sharp and echoes really ghostly, as sound travels through it more than 10X its speed in air.
I googled the Young's moduli and the densities and computed the speed of sound to be approx 10% higher in ABS than PBT!
(But the data I found had pretty wide margins of error, so not a super solid result:
ABS:
Density: 1.0-1.05 g/cm^3
Young's Modulus: 2-2.6 GPa
PBT:
Density: 1.3-1.38 g/cm^3
Young's Modulus: 1.93-3 GPa)
(Edit: brain fart)
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Ah, fair enough. My intuition is foiled by data!
I do always find PBT to be instantly recognisable as a loose cap in hand. They feel less dense and sound more “crinkly” to the touch. They’ve a sound difference to them every bit as much as tactile feel on skin. Thicc ABS feels nice in hand, and a good bit closer to wood than lightweight PBT does! But I don’t like typing on it as much. Too slippery. And I worry about the yellowing, always.
I do always find PBT to be instantly recognisable as a loose cap in hand. They feel less dense and sound more “crinkly” to the touch. They’ve a sound difference to them every bit as much as tactile feel on skin. Thicc ABS feels nice in hand, and a good bit closer to wood than lightweight PBT does! But I don’t like typing on it as much. Too slippery. And I worry about the yellowing, always.
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Thanks!
How tall are they against other Alps caps? The (Apple IIgs ?) caps you’ve got there aren’t ones I know first hand. Are these the same height as those?
How tall are they against other Alps caps? The (Apple IIgs ?) caps you’ve got there aren’t ones I know first hand. Are these the same height as those?
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Staple diet Alps boards (and caps) like these:
wiki/Alps_Bigfoot
Apple’s caps were always goofy. I wouldn’t mix and match on my vintage Apple boards (AEK family and irrelevant here M0110). But my SGI is another matter.![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
wiki/Alps_Bigfoot
Apple’s caps were always goofy. I wouldn’t mix and match on my vintage Apple boards (AEK family and irrelevant here M0110). But my SGI is another matter.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Ah, you mean the IIc caps vs OEM profile ones? The IIc ones aren't very tall, but they're higher up than you'd think.Muirium wrote: ↑24 Jan 2022, 20:13Staple diet Alps boards (and caps) like these:
wiki/Alps_Bigfoot
Apple’s caps were always goofy. I wouldn’t mix and match on my vintage Apple boards (AEK family and irrelevant here M0110). But my SGI is another matter.![]()
- hellothere
- Location: Mesa, AZ USA
- Main keyboard: Lots
- Main mouse: CST2545W-RC
- Favorite switch: TopreAlpsHallEffectTopreAlpsHallEffectTopreAlps
Nice vid! I'm especially fond of your videos where you either have a really good keyboard or a really bad keyboard.
Now I want a video of Ellipse's new beamspring.
Now I want a video of Ellipse's new beamspring.
- Chyros
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: whatever I'm reviewing next :p
- Main mouse: a cheap Logitech
- Favorite switch: Alps SKCM Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
One of those *should* be coming my way when it's finished
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
I think that's an almost universal statement about fun reviewshellothere wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022, 19:08Nice vid! I'm especially fond of your videos where you either have a really good product or a really bad product.
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)