F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
depletedvespene

20 Apr 2021, 20:39

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:28
(and tbh, whoever wrote that is pretty judgy, I would NOT want to use their "fixed Czech" layout)
Hey, complaints should be directed to IBM on this regard! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:28
I couldn't find any photos of model Fs with Czech caps, and the Ms I found were not very clear, sorry about that.
I haven't found pictures of F/M/M2 IBM keyboards with a Czech layout, BUT the layout the IBM PDF shows is consistent with the layouts _and_ pictures I've found of (IBM and non-IBM) Polish, Hungarian and (former-)Yugoslavian keyboards.

Those two pictures, indeed, show a Czech layout in agreement with the PDF, even though the front-printing can barely be identified.

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:28
I don't honestly care about those, but if we're going for accuracy, I guess we should stick to the IBM pdf?
That would be my vote. If only to appease that "pretty judgy" guy. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

User avatar
Zed

20 Apr 2021, 20:42

Jesse9766 wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:21
Ellipse wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 17:15
At this point additional language sets are now possible - this was not the case before. Zed is working on Model F quality APL and JIS sets too!

OK to add Czech as an option if Zed is up to creating it and if someone wants it!

Please do post here if you would personally like to order any other specific language key sets.

GetInTheRolls please check out the manual which offers a full checklist of steps in the troubleshooting section. I just updated it today. One section is dedicated to the specific issue of one key not working. I'd guess your spring needs re-seating or replacement but please follow the checklist.
Are there any plans for a Thai sublegends set? A Model F with Thai keycaps exists, but is incredibly rare.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20365

Image
That would be a yes if you are interested in ordering one. :lol:

User avatar
Zed

20 Apr 2021, 20:47

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:28
Oh wow, that goes in depth. I don't really use layers beyond shift, so I don't have an opinion on that.
(and tbh, whoever wrote that is pretty judgy, I would NOT want to use their "fixed Czech" layout)
We definitely prefer QWERTZ.
I originally ordered (UK) ISO with a split right Shift, so that'd be my adjustments beyond just the Czech layout as shown in the IBM pdf.

I couldn't find any photos of model Fs with Czech caps, and the Ms I found were not very clear, sorry about that.
So modern Czech kbs usually have (Z Y) on the Z and Y caps, with the default symbol in the top left corner. But neither of the Ms seem to have that. (so I wouldn't do that)
The older grey badge one seems to have secondary characters on some of the alphas, but not all that are shown in the IBM pdf. The newer blue badge doesn't have any that I can see.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
I don't honestly care about those, but if we're going for accuracy, I guess we should stick to the IBM pdf?

edit: OK hold up, I might be wrong.
It really comes down to which operating system you are going to be using if you want to have the sub-legends match what the computer is doing. Or, if you just want a bunch of extra legends (I think Czech sets the record so far at least for the Latin languages) that look cool the IBM layout might be the way to go.

Jan Pospisil

20 Apr 2021, 20:59

OK, so my conundrum is: Do I go IBM historically accurate, or with keycaps that correspond to the actual keypresses in Windows?
Right now I'm using this board, which has a Tai Hao blue set and the yellowed caps are swapped from an old Czech Ortek. (ignore that it's ANSI and QWERTY)
I actually really enjoy that the caps have the right symbols, even though there's 4 of them. The left column is ENG language setting, the right column is the CZ language setting.
Spoiler:
Image
If I were going for practicality, I'd get something like this.

User avatar
depletedvespene

20 Apr 2021, 21:03

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:59
OK, so my conundrum is: Do I go IBM historically accurate, or with keycaps that correspond to the actual keypresses in Windows?
Right now I'm using this board, which has a Tai Hao blue set and the yellowed caps are swapped from an old Czech Ortek. (ignore that it's ANSI and QWERTY)
I actually really enjoy that the caps have the right symbols, even though there's 4 of them. The left column is ENG language setting, the right column is the CZ language setting.
Spoiler:
Image
If I were going for practicality, I'd get something like this.
If you're using Windows, that O.S. supports three different variations on the Czech layout: (vanilla), "QWERTY" and "programmers". Which of these looks closest to what you use?

http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz
http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz1
http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz2

Jan Pospisil

20 Apr 2021, 21:18

depletedvespene wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:03
Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:59
OK, so my conundrum is: Do I go IBM historically accurate, or with keycaps that correspond to the actual keypresses in Windows?
Right now I'm using this board, which has a Tai Hao blue set and the yellowed caps are swapped from an old Czech Ortek. (ignore that it's ANSI and QWERTY)
I actually really enjoy that the caps have the right symbols, even though there's 4 of them. The left column is ENG language setting, the right column is the CZ language setting.
Spoiler:
Image
If I were going for practicality, I'd get something like this.
If you're using Windows, that O.S. supports three different variations on the Czech layout: (vanilla), "QWERTY" and "programmers". Which of these looks closest to what you use?

http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz
http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz1
http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz2
Right, pretty sure it's the first one, kbdcz. I was confused by how many symbols there were, but yeah. It includes the symbols you can get via ALT+ as well as non-capitalized-non-accented letters, which typically aren't printed on the caps.
(which are, I am just realizing, front printed in the IBM PDF, but some are in wrong positions)
If front printing was possible, having them in the correct position (as in the kbdcz layout scheme) would be cool. Or on the cap itself like the Ms had it, that would work as well.

(edit: Sorry for complicating this so much, this is way deeper than I assumed.)

User avatar
Zed

20 Apr 2021, 21:32

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:18
depletedvespene wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:03
Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:59
OK, so my conundrum is: Do I go IBM historically accurate, or with keycaps that correspond to the actual keypresses in Windows?
Right now I'm using this board, which has a Tai Hao blue set and the yellowed caps are swapped from an old Czech Ortek. (ignore that it's ANSI and QWERTY)
I actually really enjoy that the caps have the right symbols, even though there's 4 of them. The left column is ENG language setting, the right column is the CZ language setting.
Spoiler:
Image
If I were going for practicality, I'd get something like this.
If you're using Windows, that O.S. supports three different variations on the Czech layout: (vanilla), "QWERTY" and "programmers". Which of these looks closest to what you use?

http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz
http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz1
http://kbdlayout.info/kbdcz2
Right, pretty sure it's the first one, kbdcz. I was confused by how many symbols there were, but yeah. It includes the symbols you can get via ALT+ as well as non-capitalized-non-accented letters, which typically aren't printed on the caps.
(which are, I am just realizing, front printed in the IBM PDF, but some are in wrong positions)
If front printing was possible, having them in the correct position (as in the kbdcz layout scheme) would be cool. Or on the cap itself like the Ms had it, that would work as well.

(edit: Sorry for complicating this so much, this is way deeper than I assumed.)
No worries and no real rush to decide. I still have a few other languages to do before I get to Czech. Over on geekhack, there is another request that came in today for Czech and he is talking about "Peacock" and Modern layouts. Depletedvespene, where do these fit in the world of Czech layouts? I have not had the time today to get into the differences and variations.

User avatar
depletedvespene

20 Apr 2021, 21:42

Zed wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:32

Over on geekhack, there is another request that came in today for Czech and he is talking about "Peacock" and Modern layouts. Depletedvespene, where do these fit in the world of Czech layouts? I have not had the time today to get into the differences and variations.
Saw that, too. Still researching...

User avatar
Zed

20 Apr 2021, 21:56

Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:18
If front printing was possible, having them in the correct position (as in the kbdcz layout scheme) would be cool. Or on the cap itself like the Ms had it, that would work as well.

(edit: Sorry for complicating this so much, this is way deeper than I assumed.)
Although IBM used front printing for a lot of the national layouts, we are going with putting the AltGr legends on the top of the keys in the bottom right corner. This leaves room for front printed F Row legends on the number row as bonus feature.

Jan Pospisil

20 Apr 2021, 22:17

Zed wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:56
Jan Pospisil wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 21:18
If front printing was possible, having them in the correct position (as in the kbdcz layout scheme) would be cool. Or on the cap itself like the Ms had it, that would work as well.

(edit: Sorry for complicating this so much, this is way deeper than I assumed.)
Although IBM used front printing for a lot of the national layouts, we are going with putting the AltGr legends on the top of the keys in the bottom right corner. This leaves room for front printed F Row legends on the number row as bonus feature.
I was just about to ask about that, that is a great solution!

Jesse9766

20 Apr 2021, 23:43

Zed wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:42
Jesse9766 wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:21
Ellipse wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 17:15
At this point additional language sets are now possible - this was not the case before. Zed is working on Model F quality APL and JIS sets too!

OK to add Czech as an option if Zed is up to creating it and if someone wants it!

Please do post here if you would personally like to order any other specific language key sets.

GetInTheRolls please check out the manual which offers a full checklist of steps in the troubleshooting section. I just updated it today. One section is dedicated to the specific issue of one key not working. I'd guess your spring needs re-seating or replacement but please follow the checklist.
Are there any plans for a Thai sublegends set? A Model F with Thai keycaps exists, but is incredibly rare.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20365

Image
That would be a yes if you are interested in ordering one. :lol:
High quality Thai sublegends are kinda rare in mechanical keyboards, so I'd certainly purchase a set if one was made!

A bit of information if production is indeed considered. Thai keyboards are in ANSI layout. I have never seen one in ISO layout. I ordered my Model F in the split backspace HHKB layout, so the | \ ฅ ฃ key should come in 1u and 1.5u size. Special modifiers do not need to be made because they typically are in English.

The original specifications for the Thai layout has a slightly different number row.
Image

The most common layout as used today.
Image

As seen on an Apple keyboard. Note the 1u | \ ฅ ฅ key which is a by-product of the right side being chopped off slightly. Also the Caps Lock is label is replaced with ก/A , which performs the same function as Caps Lock, toggling lower and upper legends.
Image

Many of the top right characters on the IBM Model F are in the wrong places. The number row is also much different from modern layouts. Typography is similar to Thai typewriter fonts, such as "DB Bradley Curved X". https://thaifaces.com/thaitype/bradley/#0

There are some slight differences between IBM's font and this one, such as ง having a downward curve and the ไ ๆ having more sharper, angular curves.

Another font IBM's is similar to is "DB TongSiam X". The ผ ฝ keys are a bit different.
https://thaifaces.com/thaitype/tongsiam/

The Model M also had Thai versions, but with a more modern font which has less character than the old typerwriter style font IMO. I think this user put Model M keycaps on his Model F AT.
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=7834&p=465787&hili ... ai#p465787
Image

GetInTheRolls

21 Apr 2021, 00:28

Ellipse wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 17:15
At this point additional language sets are now possible - this was not the case before. Zed is working on Model F quality APL and JIS sets too!

OK to add Czech as an option if Zed is up to creating it and if someone wants it!

Please do post here if you would personally like to order any other specific language key sets.

GetInTheRolls please check out the manual which offers a full checklist of steps in the troubleshooting section. I just updated it today. One section is dedicated to the specific issue of one key not working. I'd guess your spring needs re-seating or replacement but please follow the checklist.
Hi, thanks for your response, I am having more issues with my model f

I tried swappig out the spring for another key on my 9 key, and i think that the spring is not the issue

When I touhed the keyoard, it got shoked and many keys stopped working, so my sentenes are laking some letters, as you an see

all the keys with a 24 on them do not work

I have tried reseatig the keys to no avail

please advise
Capture3.PNG
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User avatar
Zed

21 Apr 2021, 01:29

Jesse9766 wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 23:43
Zed wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:42
Jesse9766 wrote:
20 Apr 2021, 20:21


Are there any plans for a Thai sublegends set? A Model F with Thai keycaps exists, but is incredibly rare.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20365

Image
That would be a yes if you are interested in ordering one. :lol:
High quality Thai sublegends are kinda rare in mechanical keyboards, so I'd certainly purchase a set if one was made!

A bit of information if production is indeed considered. Thai keyboards are in ANSI layout. I have never seen one in ISO layout. I ordered my Model F in the split backspace HHKB layout, so the | \ ฅ ฃ key should come in 1u and 1.5u size. Special modifiers do not need to be made because they typically are in English.

The original specifications for the Thai layout has a slightly different number row.
Image

The most common layout as used today.
Image

As seen on an Apple keyboard. Note the 1u | \ ฅ ฅ key which is a by-product of the right side being chopped off slightly. Also the Caps Lock is label is replaced with ก/A , which performs the same function as Caps Lock, toggling lower and upper legends.
Image

Many of the top right characters on the IBM Model F are in the wrong places. The number row is also much different from modern layouts. Typography is similar to Thai typewriter fonts, such as "DB Bradley Curved X". https://thaifaces.com/thaitype/bradley/#0

There are some slight differences between IBM's font and this one, such as ง having a downward curve and the ไ ๆ having more sharper, angular curves.

Another font IBM's is similar to is "DB TongSiam X". The ผ ฝ keys are a bit different.
https://thaifaces.com/thaitype/tongsiam/

The Model M also had Thai versions, but with a more modern font which has less character than the old typerwriter style font IMO. I think this user put Model M keycaps on his Model F AT.
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=7834&p=465787&hili ... ai#p465787
Image
Great info and references Jesse9766. For the non-Latin sets like Japanese, Korean and now Thai, I am not going to draw the characters myself and will be using suitable typefaces instead. I have found fonts that closely match the ones IBM used for Japanese and Korean and hopefully we can come up with something appropriate for Thai.

Are the links from the thaifaces site meant to be reference pictures or actual fonts to download? Would any of the fonts that Google offers work? Thasadith looks like a candidate.

https://fonts.google.com/?subset=thai

Ellipse

21 Apr 2021, 02:26

GetInTheRolls it looks like a matrix row is not working - please see the manual's description on how to fix a row. It involves touching up the solder and maybe adding a layer of electrical tape if your keyboard is an ultra compact case version. Also please use the signal level monitor as your screenshot is not as detailed.

Jesse9766

21 Apr 2021, 03:15

Zed wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 01:29
Great info and references Jesse9766. For the non-Latin sets like Japanese, Korean and now Thai, I am not going to draw the characters myself and will be using suitable typefaces instead. I have found fonts that closely match the ones IBM used for Japanese and Korean and hopefully we can come up with something appropriate for Thai.

Are the links from the thaifaces site meant to be reference pictures or actual fonts to download? Would any of the fonts that Google offers work? Thasadith looks like a candidate.

https://fonts.google.com/?subset=thai
That is a very nice modern font using a "humanist" font style. Though modern fonts are typically more rounded than old fonts, like the original font on the Model F. I think it would look nice if printed, though it might be difficult due to the thin lines.
db-bradley-angular-x-glyph_large_0.png
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DB Bradley Angular X seems to be the closest to IBM's. This font is also known as Bradley Square and reminds me of the text in textbooks, probably because it is. IBM uses a handwriting font style, same as Bradley Square. If it helps you out I can trace over the characters on the IBM keyboard, but honestly all fonts are good as is. I don't know where to find a download for this font, but it'd be the best to start as.

https://github.com/jeffmcneill/thai-fon ... thai-fonts
This is a large collection of Thai fonts, but they seem optimized for screen reading rather than print.

GetInTheRolls

21 Apr 2021, 03:47

Ellipse wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 02:26
GetInTheRolls it looks like a matrix row is not working - please see the manual's description on how to fix a row. It involves touching up the solder and maybe adding a layer of electrical tape if your keyboard is an ultra compact case version. Also please use the signal level monitor as your screenshot is not as detailed.
Hi, thanks for your response.

I have been having very strange behaviour with my board. If you think that the solution is to indeed open it up and look at the soldering, I will do that. Please let me know if you still think the issue is with the soldering after this new informaiton.

After shocking the keyboard with my hand (is there a way to prevent this in the future?), the aforementioned keys in the bottom two rows stopped working. I plugged it in with another USB C Cable and the board started registering a lot of phantom presses, the keys which didn't work started to work, and even the 9 on the numpad (which still doesn't work and I don't know why - I tried reseating and multiple springs) started registering continuously. When I swtiched back to the original USB C cable, the aforementioned keys continued to not work.

Then, I opened it up and came back to it a few hours later, and everything is working perfectly, even on the original USB C cable (except the 9 on the numpad). If you could enlighten me as to what you think is going on, I would much appreciate it - thanks!
Capture.PNG
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Ellipse

21 Apr 2021, 04:33

This is a great discussion on all the additional language options. I have just submitted four additional language layouts to the factory thanks to Zed! Brazil, German, Swedish Finnish, and Swiss German.

GetInTheRolls did you do the test where you open the signal monitor utility first, then remove the 9 num pad key, and then observe if the top number in the group of 3 numbers moves to green? As a note I test every key before mailing but sometimes problems show up after these keyboards are bounced around in shipping and/or used on different equipment. I would first touch up all the solder joints (don't take apart the keyboard for this as it's not needed; you just have to open up the case as noted in the manual). Have you tried another computer and another USB port?

The last resort (if the above does not work) is to remove all the keys and open the inner assembly as shown in one of the videos in the manual, and rest a flipper on top of selected keys that do not respond to the flipper. If a key registers then it is an issue with the flipper and spring which should be replaced or cleaned off with a lint free cloth (also clean the PCB with a cloth too).

Did you add polyimide or electrical tape to the bottom of the controller? It may be making contact with the bottom of the case which may cause intermittent issues.

GetInTheRolls

21 Apr 2021, 14:52

Ellipse wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 04:33
This is a great discussion on all the additional language options. I have just submitted four additional language layouts to the factory thanks to Zed! Brazil, German, Swedish Finnish, and Swiss German.

GetInTheRolls did you do the test where you open the signal monitor utility first, then remove the 9 num pad key, and then observe if the top number in the group of 3 numbers moves to green? As a note I test every key before mailing but sometimes problems show up after these keyboards are bounced around in shipping and/or used on different equipment. I would first touch up all the solder joints (don't take apart the keyboard for this as it's not needed; you just have to open up the case as noted in the manual). Have you tried another computer and another USB port?

The last resort (if the above does not work) is to remove all the keys and open the inner assembly as shown in one of the videos in the manual, and rest a flipper on top of selected keys that do not respond to the flipper. If a key registers then it is an issue with the flipper and spring which should be replaced or cleaned off with a lint free cloth (also clean the PCB with a cloth too).

Did you add polyimide or electrical tape to the bottom of the controller? It may be making contact with the bottom of the case which may cause intermittent issues.
Thanks for your response. I have added some electrical tape over the polyamide tape and I hope that will fix some of the issues I was having. As for the 9 on the numpad, I took a solder wire in my hand and touched it to each of the joints to figure out which one was the issue. I am not sure if there is a specific joint I need to solder (could you let me know which one to solder if there is a specific one linked to the 9 numpad?) but I found one which seems to constantly press a group of keys - that appears to be an issue, right? Because if I add solder to that joint it would be permanently pressing that group of keys? There are a few other joints which constantly press a column of keys when I touch it with the solder wire. Please advise. Thank you!

TerminalJunkie

21 Apr 2021, 15:49

Would it be possible to sneak in a 1u control symbol ("^") and a 1u Mac command symbol ("⌘")? I would love to have a couple of each in pebble.

User avatar
Zed

21 Apr 2021, 17:09

TerminalJunkie wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 15:49
Would it be possible to sneak in a 1u control symbol ("^") and a 1u Mac command symbol ("⌘")? I would love to have a couple of each in pebble.
No problems from my end if Ellipse says it's OK. Obviously the current factory has much more flexibility as witnessed by the additions of Czech and Thai sets over the last 24 hours. However, the Icon set files (and all the other extra keys) have already been sent to be printed and Ellipse and I haven't really discussed what happens if someone wants to add something to an existing set already in the pipeline.

Edit: I have just added the keys and will be sending Ellipse the artwork in a bit. So the answer is yes!

User avatar
darkcruix

21 Apr 2021, 19:05

Exciting news! My keycap trays are ready to be filled :)
Spoiler:
IMG_1409.jpeg
IMG_1409.jpeg (233.82 KiB) Viewed 561 times
Edit: https://snijlab.nl/en in The Netherlands is where I got them made. They also made my foam replacement mats. I can only recommend them.

User avatar
depletedvespene

21 Apr 2021, 20:57

darkcruix wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 19:05
Exciting news! My keycap trays are ready to be filled :)
GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!!

kmnov2017

21 Apr 2021, 21:49

Zed wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 17:09
TerminalJunkie wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 15:49
Would it be possible to sneak in a 1u control symbol ("^") and a 1u Mac command symbol ("⌘")? I would love to have a couple of each in pebble.
No problems from my end if Ellipse says it's OK. Obviously the current factory has much more flexibility as witnessed by the additions of Czech and Thai sets over the last 24 hours. However, the Icon set files (and all the other extra keys) have already been sent to be printed and Ellipse and I haven't really discussed what happens if someone wants to add something to an existing set already in the pipeline.

Edit: I have just added the keys and will be sending Ellipse the artwork in a bit. So the answer is yes!
We need to get this made
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User avatar
Zed

21 Apr 2021, 22:30

kmnov2017 wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 21:49
Zed wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 17:09
TerminalJunkie wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 15:49
Would it be possible to sneak in a 1u control symbol ("^") and a 1u Mac command symbol ("⌘")? I would love to have a couple of each in pebble.
No problems from my end if Ellipse says it's OK. Obviously the current factory has much more flexibility as witnessed by the additions of Czech and Thai sets over the last 24 hours. However, the Icon set files (and all the other extra keys) have already been sent to be printed and Ellipse and I haven't really discussed what happens if someone wants to add something to an existing set already in the pipeline.

Edit: I have just added the keys and will be sending Ellipse the artwork in a bit. So the answer is yes!
We need to get this made
Ellipse has mentioned that he wants to do this but I don't think it's been announced anywhere so I hope it's OK to post this.
F Beam.png
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I have no idea if this is practical and I haven't even brought this up with Ellipse so don't get too excited for this one. Still very much a WIP as well.
F Beam APL.png
F Beam APL.png (616.56 KiB) Viewed 493 times

User avatar
raoulduke-esq

21 Apr 2021, 22:40

How are we not supposed to get excited about that?!! Both of those are exceptionally gorgeous and although I'm loathe to spend money on caps instead of keyboards, I'm afraid I would have to make an exception for one of these masterpieces.

kmnov2017

21 Apr 2021, 22:49

Zed wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 22:30
kmnov2017 wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 21:49
Zed wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 17:09


No problems from my end if Ellipse says it's OK. Obviously the current factory has much more flexibility as witnessed by the additions of Czech and Thai sets over the last 24 hours. However, the Icon set files (and all the other extra keys) have already been sent to be printed and Ellipse and I haven't really discussed what happens if someone wants to add something to an existing set already in the pipeline.

Edit: I have just added the keys and will be sending Ellipse the artwork in a bit. So the answer is yes!
We need to get this made
Ellipse has mentioned that he wants to do this but I don't think it's been announced anywhere so I hope it's OK to post this.

F Beam.png

I have no idea if this is practical and I haven't even brought this up with Ellipse so don't get too excited for this one. Still very much a WIP as well.

F Beam APL.png
Thanks for this !

Unicomp will be able to get these done as well, their custom orders are like USD 30.

Kugelkopf

21 Apr 2021, 22:54

Xcore wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 23:37
Zed wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 22:35
Any opinions on my 1.5U 'Caps Lock' legend in the HHKB ISO German set? I wanted to make the bottom row consistent and do a text legend and Google translate claims that 'Caps Lock' is proper German.
The German term for Caps Lock (literally maybe "Kap[itälchen]-Schloss") would indeed be "Feststelltaste" – but I have never seen the word Feststelltaste been written on a keyboard ever. I think the German norms are calling for just the arrow symbol without any text.

Caps Lock seems to be used on at least some older Keyboards, e.g. my F/XT has the key labeled Caps Lock.

I dig the "Groß ⇩" from darkcruix photos (even though the manual seems to give it as "Gnoß"? 😆) and I think I have seen that before on German keyboards. As a Mac user, I'd like "Groß ⇪" even more 🙂
Those of us who have ever typed on a real mechanical (German) typewriter, will not so soon forget:

Tastatur2.jpg
Tastatur2.jpg (159.93 KiB) Viewed 464 times

The "Umschalttaste" moved the typing levers or the roller up to make the lever hit the paper with the part where the capital letter was engraved. It fell back into standard position due to it's own weight. To keep the levers (or roller) in high position, one had to press the silvery button next to the "Q" (without any legend). This button also moved the "Umschalttaste" and locked it mechanically in upward lever or roller position for capital letters. When finished, the "Feststelltaste" had to be pressed firmly, to "deform" the mechanically jammed silvery and "Umschalttaste" until a point, where they became unlocked again — if it wasn't the other way round. Upon contemplating the photo, I'm wondering, if it might be the "Feststelltaste", that had to be pressed in the first place and the silver button, to unlock the thing. My relevant typing experience is a few decades away...

Just in case, Ellipse want's to reproduce even more historic typewriting devices some day ;-)

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Zed

22 Apr 2021, 00:11

kmnov2017 wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 22:49
Zed wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 22:30
kmnov2017 wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 21:49


We need to get this made
Ellipse has mentioned that he wants to do this but I don't think it's been announced anywhere so I hope it's OK to post this.

F Beam.png

I have no idea if this is practical and I haven't even brought this up with Ellipse so don't get too excited for this one. Still very much a WIP as well.

F Beam APL.png
Thanks for this !

Unicomp will be able to get these done as well, their custom orders are like USD 30.
Unicomp does a Beam Spring font? I know they do APL w/ their M style legends. I am also doing a Model F + APL for this project as well in case you were not aware.

Ellipse

22 Apr 2021, 00:21

Yes confirmed, I hope to offer the beam spring type, beam spring apl type layouts for the new Model F keys as well as regular APL (both light orange and red variations) and JIS.

Zed has also just added the 1U Mac keys requested and color options for the keys (see the extra keys page on the project web site for the new graphics) - green Alt keys, gray SSK front print keys, and green SysRq front print. No other colors or other options are currently available until I see how the green sublimation turns out.

If interested in any of these sets or color keys please message me or email me so I can let you know when they are ready to order (let me know which you are interested in). First I'm going to make sure one of each comes out nice from the factory.

sedevidi

22 Apr 2021, 10:06

Kugelkopf wrote:
21 Apr 2021, 22:54
...
Upon contemplating the photo, I'm wondering, if it might be the "Feststelltaste", that had to be pressed in the first place and the silver button, to unlock the thing. My relevant typing experience is a few decades away...
AFAIK, "Umschalttaste" moves the typing levers up, "Feststelltaste" just pushes "Umschalttaste" AND activates a lock with a spring, leaving "Umschalttaste" in a down position. You had to push a bit "Umschalttaste" to release the lock and let the typing levers go back down.
The metal key is probably a "tab-stop" lever : push it down to set a tab-stop, pull it up to unset the tab-stop at the current position. Those tab stops are little metal tabs at each character position along the roller that stop the roller when you push it to the left. The "go-to-next-tab" key may be the red one on the right. That's the case on my 1967 typewriter.

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