F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 13:13

darkcruix wrote:
14 May 2021, 11:33
Thinking about the same... I have seen two videos about the red cases so far and I must say ... there is a chance, I spend the money on it ;) I just would love to see a red case with dark gray keys...
I do love the red, but I wanted mine to be as true to the original design as possible.

I actually wanted the key layout and keycap legends to be the same as the original 77-key as well but there isn't a PD 3 key in the correct size, just the size of ANSI Enter, which is "wrong" (should be a 1.25U just like ISO left Shift, with 1.5U PD 2 key forming the upper part of what would otherwise be ISO Enter). Going to fix the key layout when it arrives by swapping the ISO Enter out for 1.5U + 1.25U keys, but it seems the best I can do with the legends is just forget the 4704-specific stuff and make PD 3 a textless legend with only the "return" arrow, so I'm doing that instead. (That or blanks, or a mix... I'll decide when I see 'em!)

If I had more disposable income, I'd have bought two: one "classic" with original layout and colour scheme, and one HHKB-style with every key split and blank keycaps in a red case, I think. But I'm skint, hahah.

User avatar
darkcruix

14 May 2021, 13:28

an_achronism wrote:
14 May 2021, 13:13
darkcruix wrote:
14 May 2021, 11:33
Thinking about the same... I have seen two videos about the red cases so far and I must say ... there is a chance, I spend the money on it ;) I just would love to see a red case with dark gray keys...
I do love the red, but I wanted mine to be as true to the original design as possible.

I actually wanted the key layout and keycap legends to be the same as the original 77-key as well but there isn't a PD 3 key in the correct size, just the size of ANSI Enter, which is "wrong" (should be a 1.25U just like ISO left Shift, with 1.5U PD 2 key forming the upper part of what would otherwise be ISO Enter). Going to fix the key layout when it arrives by swapping the ISO Enter out for 1.5U + 1.25U keys, but it seems the best I can do with the legends is just forget the 4704-specific stuff and make PD 3 a textless legend with only the "return" arrow, so I'm doing that instead. (That or blanks, or a mix... I'll decide when I see 'em!)
..
Totally agree. I have an unfinished project to create the perfect imitation of the original F77 as well. I have the keys and beige keyboard already - just need to find the time to work on it...
IMG_1445.jpeg
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User avatar
ironicmoustache

14 May 2021, 13:39

darkcruix wrote:
14 May 2021, 11:33
Thinking about the same... I have seen two videos about the red cases so far and I must say ... there is a chance, I spend the money on it ;) I just would love to see a red case with dark gray keys...
Red with dark grey sounds pretty legit!

Maybe I'll get a red F62 if I have the spare scratch. Maybe. I specced a plain ol' beige F77 so I can get a bit frisky with an F62 if I get one I guess?

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 13:46

darkcruix wrote:
14 May 2021, 13:28
Totally agree. I have an unfinished project to create the perfect imitation of the original F77 as well. I have the keys and beige keyboard already - just need to find the time to work on it...
IMG_1445.jpeg
Aaaaaah, I want that PD 3 key dangit! Hahah. I would've ordered one if it was listed as available but seems not, just the ANSI sized one, which is useless to me.

I'm hoping it isn't *too* long before my beige beaut arrives, but I have plenty to play with in the meantime, not the least of which is an F122.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

14 May 2021, 14:36

I prefer PD 2. Best key on my HHKish.

Think it came with the weird little PD 3 as well, originally. Aye, here we are.

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 15:00

Muirium wrote:
14 May 2021, 14:36
I prefer PD 2. Best key on my HHKish.

Think it came with the weird little PD 3 as well, originally. Aye, here we are.
Stop flexing at me, you (f)ANSI bastard!

I only specified PD 3 because it's the only one that isn't offered in the correct key size. It should be a 1.25U key, but because the board isn't offered with the original layout as standard, it's a 2.25U (ANSI Enter) instead: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... eys-C3.png

Image
If I had unlimited cash, I'd be buying another one with this layout, in addition to the "classic" beige one I have on the way:

Image
... buuut I'd probably leave most of the caps blank and do something like this (the weird glyph on the num pad 5 representing the buckling spring logo icon from the "Novelties" pack):

Image
This is more or less what I intend to do with my non-HHKB beige F77, except I'll lose the Print Screen / System Request key to the longer Shift and I'll lose the extra Delete key to the longer Backspace. There'll still be a Del / . key on my makeshift numpad anyway, and I can map Print Screen to Fn + P or something (not much point in the HHKB-esque mappings for Print Screen / Scroll Lock / Pause since I can get Pause from Ctrl + Num Lock and have dedicated Scroll Lock elsewhere):

Image
Last edited by an_achronism on 14 May 2021, 16:01, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

14 May 2021, 15:56

Ah, those icon mods. If I'd unlimited money, I'd buy a bunch of fancy caps from Ellipse as well. Pricey, but!

User avatar
digi

14 May 2021, 16:10

Is there a quick fix to straighten out the Ctrl & Alt keys? All the other keys sit nice and straight.

Image

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 16:16

digi wrote:
14 May 2021, 16:10
Is there a quick fix to straighten out the Ctrl & Alt keys? All the other keys sit nice and straight.

Image
Are the barrels sitting squint or something? I suppose you could attempt to rotate them without taking the thing apart, but it might be finicky and they might end up marked/damaged so I'd be inclined just to open it and reseat everything properly tbh.

Ellipse

14 May 2021, 17:00

ok I have added the 1.25 PD3 key - OK to order.

digi: Please remove and reseat those keys - maybe they were inserted incorrectly. As a general note, all buckling spring keys rotate - it should be easy to just push them back by hand - on my IBM F122 the 1.5 keys can be pushed to match approximately what is in your photo. They do not stay in one place. On the 1.5 and 1.75 keys the rotation is perceived as greater than the 1U keys because they are larger keys (I can also notice rotation for the 1U keys). Even the IBM originals had some room to rotate. Maybe the new keys have more play than some IBM originals and less play than other IBM originals. If there were much less rotation, the key stem ears would have much more friction against the inner walls of the barrels and the keys would be perceived as being more "scratchy."

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 17:18

Ellipse wrote:
14 May 2021, 17:00
ok I have added the 1.25 PD3 key - OK to order.
Oof, excellent! Can I stick a note on a 4704 key set to do the set with that key instead of the ANSI one, perhaps? (Point being, if it has to be ordered in isolation on top of the standard 4704 set then I'll just end up with an ANSI Enter sized key I have no use for.)

Ellipse

14 May 2021, 18:47

an_achronism yes feel free to note "1.25 PD3 key instead of larger PD3 key"

User avatar
digi

14 May 2021, 19:42

an_achronism wrote:
14 May 2021, 16:16
digi wrote:
14 May 2021, 16:10
Is there a quick fix to straighten out the Ctrl & Alt keys? All the other keys sit nice and straight.

Image
Are the barrels sitting squint or something? I suppose you could attempt to rotate them without taking the thing apart, but it might be finicky and they might end up marked/damaged so I'd be inclined just to open it and reseat everything properly tbh.
I don't believe so, these particular caps have a lot of play (I can wiggle them side to side) compared to the alphas for example. I feel like something on the caps themselves? Are yours firm in place and centered?

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 19:54

Ellipse wrote:
14 May 2021, 18:47
an_achronism yes feel free to note "1.25 PD3 key instead of larger PD3 key"
Brilliant, thank you very much for doing that.

User avatar
darkcruix

14 May 2021, 21:18

And while we were talking about it ...
... I assembled my (quasi) NOS ...
IMG_4513.JPG
IMG_4513.JPG (588.95 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
My attempt to emulate the 4707 key output for modern OS / USB using macros:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

bool process_record_user(uint16_t keycode, keyrecord_t *record) {
    switch (keycode) {
        case S_TAB:
            if (record->event.pressed) {
                SEND_STRING(SS_DOWN(X_LSFT));
                SEND_STRING(SS_TAP(X_TAB));
                SEND_STRING(SS_UP(X_LSFT));
            } else {                               
            }
            break;
        case S_CBR:
            if (record->event.pressed) {
                if( get_mods() && (MOD_BIT(KC_RSFT))) {   
                    SEND_STRING("{");
                } else {
                    SEND_STRING("}");
                }
            } else {                              
            }
            break;
        case S_LTGT:
            if (record->event.pressed) {
                if( get_mods() && (MOD_BIT(KC_LSFT))) {   
                    SEND_STRING("<");
                    register_code(KC_LSFT);
                } else {
                    SEND_STRING(">");                   
                }
            } else {                              
            }
            break;

    }
    return true;
}
Last edited by darkcruix on 17 May 2021, 10:06, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
an_achronism

14 May 2021, 21:27

darkcruix wrote:
14 May 2021, 21:18
And while we were talking about it ...
... I assembled my (quasi) NOS ... only the 4704 Icon based right Shift is missing ...
IMG_1447.jpeg
Jealous.

I'm now another $40 poorer but at least my F77 should arrive with all the right keys for me to turn it into a proper "Model 300", save for the relegendable caps, which I don't have. Really want those but they seem to go for silly money if they show up at all, so I can't really justify doing that. EDIT: And of course the stepped versions of the bottom row keys (Reset, Alt, Alt/Alt Gr, Enter) which I'd have to get off an actual IBM board or do without. But it's a repro anyway so I can live with that.

User avatar
Hypersphere

16 May 2021, 22:08

Greetings -- I have been away for a long time. I just received my new Ellipse Compact F62. Everything seems to be working okay, except that I would like to make a few changes to the layout. I've heard that this can now be done with some combination of keystrokes rather than requiring reflashing of the keyboard firmware. Is this so? If so, could someone please refer me to a link that has detailed instructions? Many thanks!

EDIT: No need! I figured it out from the updated manual. The new QMK / Via method is very nice indeed!
Last edited by Hypersphere on 16 May 2021, 23:36, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

16 May 2021, 22:58

Hey Hyper! I’ve nae idea, but good to see you around again. :D

User avatar
Hypersphere

16 May 2021, 23:54

Muirium wrote:
16 May 2021, 22:58
Hey Hyper! I’ve nae idea, but good to see you around again. :D
Hey Mu! Thanks for the kind welcome! Good to "see" you again as well!

As noted in my edited post, I figured out how to remap my new ultra-compact F62 (hereinafter to be dubbed "f62) from Ellipse's updated manual. The new QMK-Via procedure is great. Many thanks to all who made this possible.

Because my work during the pandemic has involved numerous virtual meetings via standard teleconference or videoconference during which I have needed to take notes on the computer, I have mostly been using my silenced HHKB during the past year or so. Therefore, it is a bit of an adjustment to be using a super-clicky and pingy Model F again. I like the new f62; I only wish it had a red case like my new F62. I haven't yet gone through the tedium of doing a floss mod, but when I can find the time, I will probably do so in order to lessen or eliminate the ping, although I realize that this procedure will rob me of the full Model F experience.

latemodel24

17 May 2021, 03:09

Has anybody put a coiled cable onto a f77 without making any modifications to the rest of the keyboard yet.

RaoulRod

17 May 2021, 04:48

Like this?
Attachments
2E8DCA35-BFBB-4F23-BE8B-72585AA5D71F.jpeg
2E8DCA35-BFBB-4F23-BE8B-72585AA5D71F.jpeg (3.15 MiB) Viewed 1114 times

latemodel24

17 May 2021, 05:02

Yeah, pretty much like that, if you don't mind me asking, what cable did you use?

Ellipse

17 May 2021, 05:58

Ellipse wrote:
04 May 2021, 02:48
Thanks to everyone for the continuing, great discussion on getting the key legends as good as possible and about the possibility of additional languages. I hope as many languages (that people intend on using on their Model F / Model M) can be made available.

Question to reflow soldering / PCB experts: is anyone interested in a handful of (free) xwhatsit controllers that did not pass quality control standards? Example issues: row or column not detected, entire controller not detected by computer.

The controllers would be free and I would cover the cost of shipping in the US, with the only requirement that you make a good faith attempt to repair them and let me know in detail how to fix them, so I can pass along the info to the factory. Maybe you'd need to remove one working shift register chip over to another PCB and keep one or more of the PCBs as "for parts" units, for example. I'd also request that you fix and mail me back one or two of the many controllers I send over, just to show the factory that they are in fact repairable.

In the attached comparison, my suspicion is that the PCB on the top had its USB-C connector soldered at such an angle that caused the controller to not work. It just shows every gray dot as pressed in the xwhatsit capsense utility program, at any threshold value (xwhatsit's Model F testing PDF notes that a working controller should display no gray dots at the very first startup and should initially auto calibrate to threshold value 681). The one on the bottom is tested and working.

20210503_201642.jpg
Great news! An eagle eyed forum member appears to have found the controller issue - the R8 value is incorrect by a factor of 10! I confirmed this with other controllers that had the same issue.
20210503_201642 - Copy.jpg
20210503_201642 - Copy.jpg (1.81 MiB) Viewed 1086 times

User avatar
digi

17 May 2021, 17:55

Ellipse wrote:
14 May 2021, 17:00
ok I have added the 1.25 PD3 key - OK to order.

digi: Please remove and reseat those keys - maybe they were inserted incorrectly. As a general note, all buckling spring keys rotate - it should be easy to just push them back by hand - on my IBM F122 the 1.5 keys can be pushed to match approximately what is in your photo. They do not stay in one place. On the 1.5 and 1.75 keys the rotation is perceived as greater than the 1U keys because they are larger keys (I can also notice rotation for the 1U keys). Even the IBM originals had some room to rotate. Maybe the new keys have more play than some IBM originals and less play than other IBM originals. If there were much less rotation, the key stem ears would have much more friction against the inner walls of the barrels and the keys would be perceived as being more "scratchy."
Ellipse, thank you for the informative reply.

Xcore

17 May 2021, 21:33

All the coiled cables that I was able to find hat a nylon fabric coat instead of the thicc black plastic, that my model F/XT uses. Does anyone know where to find such a black cable?

Jan Pospisil

17 May 2021, 21:56

Xcore wrote:
17 May 2021, 21:33
All the coiled cables that I was able to find hat a nylon fabric coat instead of the thicc black plastic, that my model F/XT uses. Does anyone know where to find such a black cable?
https://zapcables.com/custom-old-school ... ble-cable/

Xcore

17 May 2021, 22:25

Perfect, thank you!

Ellipse

18 May 2021, 03:01

Jan Pospisil wrote:
17 May 2021, 21:56
Xcore wrote:
17 May 2021, 21:33
All the coiled cables that I was able to find hat a nylon fabric coat instead of the thicc black plastic, that my model F/XT uses. Does anyone know where to find such a black cable?
https://zapcables.com/custom-old-school ... ble-cable/
Very nice; thanks for posting this recommendation.

RaoulRod

18 May 2021, 04:08

latemodel24 wrote:
17 May 2021, 05:02
Yeah, pretty much like that, if you don't mind me asking, what cable did you use?
Asceny Coiled & Double-Sleeved Mechanical Keyboard Cable, for Type-C Mechanical Keyboards
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CVFBBZ8

RaoulRod

18 May 2021, 04:09

Here is the link to the cable I used

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CVFBBZ8

Asceny Coiled & Double-Sleeved Mechanical Keyboard Cable, for Type-C Mechanical Keyboards

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