F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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ironicmoustache

18 May 2021, 07:30

Looks good, might have to get one too.

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darkcruix

18 May 2021, 09:57

Jan Pospisil wrote:
17 May 2021, 21:56
Xcore wrote:
17 May 2021, 21:33
All the coiled cables that I was able to find hat a nylon fabric coat instead of the thicc black plastic, that my model F/XT uses. Does anyone know where to find such a black cable?
https://zapcables.com/custom-old-school ... ble-cable/
I was looking for it for quite some time - thanks for sharing!

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Hypersphere

18 May 2021, 19:52

Here is a sample of some of the new XT-quality blue printed keys on my f62 compared with corresponding keys on my HHKB.

f62:
f62_1275.png
f62_1275.png (304.91 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
HHKB:
hh1275.png
hh1275.png (300.61 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
Unfortunately, in the dim light that I usually use when working at the computer, the print on the darker blue keys on the f62 is nearly illegible to my eyes. For me, a lighter shade of blue would have been better.

I still have some tweaks to make on the f62, such as installing the HHKB add-on keys, doing a floss-mod, and tracking down the source of the spacebar squeak with the hope of eliminating it.

Overall, I prefer the ultra-compact f62 to the standard-case F62 both for its smaller size and for its detachable USB-C cable. One minor quibble about the USB-C connector -- it would have been nice if it were flush with the case to make it easier to insert the cable.

Wazrach

18 May 2021, 22:13

Hypersphere wrote:
18 May 2021, 19:52
Here is a sample of some of the new XT-quality blue printed keys on my f62 compared with corresponding keys on my HHKB.

f62:
f62_1275.png

HHKB:
hh1275.png

Unfortunately, in the dim light that I usually use when working at the computer, the print on the darker blue keys on the f62 is nearly illegible to my eyes. For me, a lighter shade of blue would have been better.

I still have some tweaks to make on the f62, such as installing the HHKB add-on keys, doing a floss-mod, and tracking down the source of the spacebar squeak with the hope of eliminating it.

Overall, I prefer the ultra-compact f62 to the standard-case F62 both for its smaller size and for its detachable USB-C cable. One minor quibble about the USB-C connector -- it would have been nice if it were flush with the case to make it easier to insert the cable.
What do you think about the smoothness of the brand new caps?

Xcore

19 May 2021, 22:03

RaoulRod wrote:
18 May 2021, 04:09
Here is the link to the cable I used
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CVFBBZ8
Asceny Coiled & Double-Sleeved Mechanical Keyboard Cable, for Type-C Mechanical Keyboards
Thanks for letting us know! Now everyone can have their favourite. Or both! My preferred choice when I can't decide…

User avatar
:Dön:

20 May 2021, 02:38

Hypersphere wrote:
18 May 2021, 19:52
Here is a sample of some of the new XT-quality blue printed keys on my f62 compared with corresponding keys on my HHKB.

f62:
f62_1275.png

HHKB:
hh1275.png

Unfortunately, in the dim light that I usually use when working at the computer, the print on the darker blue keys on the f62 is nearly illegible to my eyes. For me, a lighter shade of blue would have been better.

I still have some tweaks to make on the f62, such as installing the HHKB add-on keys, doing a floss-mod, and tracking down the source of the spacebar squeak with the hope of eliminating it.

Overall, I prefer the ultra-compact f62 to the standard-case F62 both for its smaller size and for its detachable USB-C cable. One minor quibble about the USB-C connector -- it would have been nice if it were flush with the case to make it easier to insert the cable.
It's a very pretty colour.😊
Is the colour closer to Unicomp light blue or blue?

carm

21 May 2021, 01:28

I just got my F62 in the mail. I need to program it to match my other 60% keyboards. I've PM'd pandrew to get access to QMK beta, but reading this thread, it seems like he's out for a bit. Do I have any options besides waiting for a response to get my F62 up and running?

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darkcruix

21 May 2021, 08:55

carm wrote:
21 May 2021, 01:28
I just got my F62 in the mail. I need to program it to match my other 60% keyboards. I've PM'd pandrew to get access to QMK beta, but reading this thread, it seems like he's out for a bit. Do I have any options besides waiting for a response to get my F62 up and running?
I'll send you a PM shortly

sedevidi

21 May 2021, 10:35

darkcruix wrote:
21 May 2021, 08:55
I'll send you a PM shortly
Once you're at it, I think/hope I'll receive my F77 this semester/year (low serial number with printed international keys), and will need the QMK beta access, except if the keyboard comes with VIA pre-installed, which appears not to be the case yet.
Or maybe the QMK port will get out of beta soon...
Not in a hurry though... TIA!

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Muirium
µ

21 May 2021, 10:40

Take a looksie:

viewtopic.php?p=480228#p480228

That's how I got QMK up and running on my IBM originals. It's all right there.


Edit: Darkcruix tells me Pandrew's paying for the configurator's server out of his own pocket at the moment, so don't all pounce on it before you've got your boards! Reading the instructions will prepare you well, though and costs nothing.

sedevidi

21 May 2021, 12:30

Muirium wrote:
21 May 2021, 10:40
That's how I got QMK up and running on my IBM originals. It's all right there.
Ooops... I already downloaded that document in PDF form, and skimmed through it, but didn't remember the «Building the firmware locally on the command line» section, which doesn't seem to be a big hurdle. I always worry about dependencies, but those from QMK do not seem to be problematic on Linux. Didn't test yet though.
Muirium wrote:
21 May 2021, 10:40
Edit: Darkcruix tells me Pandrew's paying for the configurator's server out of his own pocket at the moment, so don't all pounce on it before you've got your boards! Reading the instructions will prepare you well, though and costs nothing.
I'll also try the CLI local compile, as it's also a much more future-proof solution.
Thanks!

User avatar
Muirium
µ

21 May 2021, 13:26

Aye it probably is. I did mine the other way, because building from source makes me faint, but you’re wise to want independence from other people’s servers. They’ll all be offline someday, and these boards are built to last. Mine is an original, and it’s seen a lot of change in the world to put it lightly!

Ellipse

21 May 2021, 23:05

sedevidi also feel free to view the local environment firmware compiling guide on the project web site manual for step by step instructions, written for those like myself with no programming background.

However as a note for everyone, precompiled firmware files for various F62 and F77 layouts are available on the project web site, so if you are just thinking about adjusting a layout you can do so through Via or the QMK beta site without needing to set up a local environment to compile firmware.

Also everyone can flash Via firmware to any xwhatsit controller board - compiling the firmware is not required. Please carefully follow the Model F firmware flashing instructions on the project web site manual for details (thanks to pandrew and darkcruix for creating a majority of these instructions as well as for their contributions to make QMK and Via work on the xwhatsit controllers).

carm

22 May 2021, 00:36

Big thanks to pandrew for responding to my PM and darkcruix for reaching out on his own.

I've got my Model F programmed the way I need it, and I'm going to see how things go using it as a daily driver. It feels great, and I look forward to having it for years to come. I will probably order a first aid kit.

Perhaps it's too late at this point with most boards being flashed with the QMK firmware, but having tried both the VIA and the pure QMK firmware, I'm a little surprised the boards aren't being shipped with the VIA firmware. The software makes programming your keyboard very easy. That said, I figured out the QMK firmware afterwards, and that's what I'm using right now.

My left Alt key registers most of the time, but not all the time. I've reseated the key a couple of times and stretched the spring a couple of times. Could the firmware make any difference in how and when keypresses are registered? The pure QMK seems a little better than the VIA, but I know the VIA is just a slightly modified QMK firmware, so it's probably all in my head.

I'm curious as to what happens now with production of these Model Fs? (I'm new on this forum, so forgive me if these are dumb questions among the regulars.) My understanding is that they are done being produced, and it's just possible to order extras at this point, is that right?

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Hypersphere

22 May 2021, 01:22

Wazrach wrote:
18 May 2021, 22:13
<snip>
What do you think about the smoothness of the brand new caps?
Do you mean the smoothness of the key action (as opposed to the feel of the keys on their top surfaces)? Regarding the key action, the keys do indeed feel incredibly smooth -- no noticeable friction. This is in stark contrast to the feel of my vintage Model M keyboards, which feel "scratchy". I don't know if the smoothness of the f62 is due to the keys, the barrels, or both. I need to do a comparison on the f62 with some keys from my old original XT keyboard.

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Hypersphere

22 May 2021, 01:29

:Dön: wrote:
20 May 2021, 02:38
<snip>
It's a very pretty colour.😊
Is the colour closer to Unicomp light blue or blue?
[/quote]
The perception of color is a very complex phenomenon. It depends on the adjacency of other colors, the lighting, and, of course, the eye of the beholder. I am somewhat colorblind, and in the dim lighting that I usually use when working at the computer, the darker blue of the new XT keys does not provide enough contrast for me to see the lettering. In brighter light, the keys are indeed an attractive shade of blue (even to my eyes) but darker than the blue caps on my HHKB and darker than the light blue keys from Unicomp.

carm

22 May 2021, 01:34

Hypersphere wrote:
22 May 2021, 01:22
Wazrach wrote:
18 May 2021, 22:13
<snip>
What do you think about the smoothness of the brand new caps?
Do you mean the smoothness of the key action (as opposed to the feel of the keys on their top surfaces)? Regarding the key action, the keys do indeed feel incredibly smooth -- no noticeable friction. This is in stark contrast to the feel of my vintage Model M keyboards, which feel "scratchy". I don't know if the smoothness of the f62 is due to the keys, the barrels, or both. I need to do a comparison on the f62 with some keys from my old original XT keyboard.
Seems he was asking about the surface of the keycaps rather than the smoothness of the action. I wouldn't call them totally smooth, they've got a grit to them, but it's a good thing. I don't think I'd want glossy smooth caps. Pretty sure it's right on par with the originals. (Though I don't have any to test with)

Zcool31

22 May 2021, 19:06

Here's a question for Ellipse:

The keyboards that you're sending out now, when were their corresponding orders placed?

Ellipse

22 May 2021, 21:54

Zcool31 as noted earlier, the focus is on sending out the orders that are "all in stock" first, as well as the key sets from the "all in stock" split shipping orders. This is going to keep me busy for many more months.

Where possible ("all in stock"), the single digit serial, then low serial orders go out first, followed by the earliest orders. Currently the following key sets have stock that are being mailed out: US, HHKB 6 key, MAC, Blue Printed, and Dark Gray printed.

The factory needs more time to finish up the remaining custom key sets and international sets (it's taking longer than expected - might take another 1-2 months).

I am hoping that every order can go out over the coming months, by the end of the year.

I thank everyone for their patience as I become the final bottleneck of the project, QCing and mailing out each order. As noted on the latest update, "Important note: please do not ask when your keyboard is going out or about separate shipping. Hoping to continue shipping out everyone’s orders over the coming months. Sorry I can’t be more specific just yet or let anyone know exactly where they are in the queue."

Zcool31

22 May 2021, 22:32

Ellipse:

Thanks for the quick response.

But if you reread my post you'll see that I'm not asking when my keyboard will be ready or about any shipping at all.

I'm asking about keyboards that already went out of the recent weeks. When were their corresponding orders placed?

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Hypersphere

22 May 2021, 23:21

carm wrote:
22 May 2021, 01:34
Hypersphere wrote:
22 May 2021, 01:22
Wazrach wrote:
18 May 2021, 22:13
<snip>
What do you think about the smoothness of the brand new caps?
Do you mean the smoothness of the key action (as opposed to the feel of the keys on their top surfaces)? Regarding the key action, the keys do indeed feel incredibly smooth -- no noticeable friction. This is in stark contrast to the feel of my vintage Model M keyboards, which feel "scratchy". I don't know if the smoothness of the f62 is due to the keys, the barrels, or both. I need to do a comparison on the f62 with some keys from my old original XT keyboard.
Seems he was asking about the surface of the keycaps rather than the smoothness of the action. I wouldn't call them totally smooth, they've got a grit to them, but it's a good thing. I don't think I'd want glossy smooth caps. Pretty sure it's right on par with the originals. (Though I don't have any to test with)
I knew I should have answered both interpretations of the question! Yes, I agree, the new XT-type keys have a lightly textured feel. However, they are not nearly as gritty as some other brands of PBT keycaps that I have encountered. For example, I once owned a Keykool 84 with PBT caps that felt like pumice stone -- not necessarily a bad thing -- I prefer the dry feel of PBT to the clammy feel of ABS caps whether the PBT is lightly textured, gritty, or smooth.

I pulled out my original IBM XT board to compare its caps to the new XT ones on my f62 -- they also have a lightly textured feel (as well as a smooth non-scratchy key action). In contrast, the top surfaces of the Topre PBT caps on my HHKB have a smooth non-textured feel. However, I like the XT and Topre caps equally well.

carm

23 May 2021, 01:10

Zcool31 wrote:
22 May 2021, 22:32
Ellipse:

Thanks for the quick response.

But if you reread my post you'll see that I'm not asking when my keyboard will be ready or about any shipping at all.

I'm asking about keyboards that already went out of the recent weeks. When were their corresponding orders placed?
I think what Ellipse is saying is that shipping date and order date are very loosely correlated, if at all. If it helps, I received my standard ANSI industrial gray F62 kishsaver with printed keycaps in the mail 2 days ago, May 20. I ordered on Aug 3, 2017

leekster

24 May 2021, 00:49

Hey all. I have had my Model F for around a month now and overall I have been quite happy with the keyboard. Though I have noticed that the paint has started to chip predominantly where my hands come into contact with the keyboard either while typing or resting my hand on the side.Is this normal wear and tear for one month?

Image

xyzzy

24 May 2021, 10:25

This is my F62 after ~1 year.
There's some chipping, but definitely not as visible as yours.
IMG_0966.jpg
IMG_0966.jpg (141.58 KiB) Viewed 695 times

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Bjerrk

24 May 2021, 10:41

Have used mine for 4 months, zero chipping.

Jan Pospisil

24 May 2021, 11:13

Must be those metal gauntlets he's wearing all the time.

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Muirium
µ

24 May 2021, 11:15

I can take closeups of my OG Kishsaver's beige paint-job if people are interest. Untouched since 1984, though very touched indeed!

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darkcruix

24 May 2021, 11:46

Muirium wrote:
24 May 2021, 11:15
I can take closeups of my OG Kishsaver's beige paint-job if people are interest. Untouched since 1984, though very touched indeed!
I'd be interested to see it ...

Ellipse

24 May 2021, 17:28

Yes the paint can wear down in areas of significant usage unless a clear coat is applied from the start - there was some discussion before on this. It seems to affect some more than others, as opposed to everyone equally?

User avatar
darkcruix

24 May 2021, 17:38

Ellipse wrote:
24 May 2021, 17:28
Yes the paint can wear down in areas of significant usage unless a clear coat is applied from the start - there was some discussion before on this. It seems to affect some more than others, as opposed to everyone equally?
It is just an assumption at this point, but it looks to me that the slight acidic nature of skin (hands) has some effect here. I have seen this frequently with spray paint (even with clear coating - down to the point it was getting down to a flu like mass).

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