F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
darkcruix

27 Sep 2021, 17:31

I played around with the keycap colors a bit on the light blue keyboard.
I think the comments earlier convinced me to change around things.
I am still not confident with this combination, but wanted to share it (overall the blue is so amazing looking on its own).
Spoiler:
IMG_1901.jpeg
IMG_1901.jpeg (1.82 MiB) Viewed 1989 times

User avatar
wobbled

27 Sep 2021, 21:21

darkcruix wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 17:31
I played around with the keycap colors a bit on the light blue keyboard.
I think the comments earlier convinced me to change around things.
I am still not confident with this combination, but wanted to share it (overall the blue is so amazing looking on its own).
Spoiler:
IMG_1901.jpeg
Not feeling the modifier colour, the grey looks great though.

User avatar
Palatino

27 Sep 2021, 22:53

I prefer it to before. But don’t take too much notice of me: I’m thinking “how could that be improved?” and my answer is along the lines of “lighter grey for the alphas, darker for the modifiers, maybe something less striking for the case - beige should do it”. The Platonic ideal of an IBM keyboard keeps forcing its way into my head: Internalised Beige Machine.

User avatar
wobbled

28 Sep 2021, 01:59

Hoping Joe (or anyone) can answer this question

I bought the F62 compact & an original F62 case and am getting bored of the compact one. Can I swap the internals into the bigger case, and what's the process?

User avatar
darkcruix

28 Sep 2021, 09:28

wobbled wrote:
28 Sep 2021, 01:59
Hoping Joe (or anyone) can answer this question

I bought the F62 compact & an original F62 case and am getting bored of the compact one. Can I swap the internals into the bigger case, and what's the process?
Yes, that is possible, but you need a new bottom assembly plate, as they are different. I just received my Ultra compact case, so I still need to write up the process. In essence, you need to take apart the Barrel Plate Sandwich, rebuild it with the new plate, and stick it back into a new non-compact case. The process should be already in the manual for the most part.
Ellipse will answer, if the bottom assembly plates will be available for the F62.

User avatar
darkcruix

28 Sep 2021, 09:29

wobbled wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 21:21
darkcruix wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 17:31
I played around with the keycap colors a bit on the light blue keyboard.
I think the comments earlier convinced me to change around things.
I am still not confident with this combination, but wanted to share it (overall the blue is so amazing looking on its own).
Spoiler:
IMG_1901.jpeg
Not feeling the modifier colour, the grey looks great though.
:) funny - this is what I did last night:
Spoiler:
IMG_1904.jpg
IMG_1904.jpg (830.02 KiB) Viewed 1808 times
IMG_1906.jpeg
IMG_1906.jpeg (2.56 MiB) Viewed 1772 times

User avatar
wobbled

28 Sep 2021, 20:11

darkcruix wrote:
28 Sep 2021, 09:28
wobbled wrote:
28 Sep 2021, 01:59
Hoping Joe (or anyone) can answer this question

I bought the F62 compact & an original F62 case and am getting bored of the compact one. Can I swap the internals into the bigger case, and what's the process?
Yes, that is possible, but you need a new bottom assembly plate, as they are different. I just received my Ultra compact case, so I still need to write up the process. In essence, you need to take apart the Barrel Plate Sandwich, rebuild it with the new plate, and stick it back into a new non-compact case. The process should be already in the manual for the most part.
Ellipse will answer, if the bottom assembly plates will be available for the F62.
Thanks for answering!
I'll have to check if my spare case came with the bottom plate, really hoping it did as I asked for an additional case so I could swap the internals between both.

Ellipse

29 Sep 2021, 20:12

I would like to share (with permission) another nice customer image of the Off-White/Beige and Industrial Gray F77 keyboards with the key color combinations blue/pearl and 60% Dark Gray / Blue / Black.
KB - Copy.jpg
KB - Copy.jpg (3.44 MiB) Viewed 1573 times

fruitnuke

29 Sep 2021, 23:52

Just tried out the floss mod on my F77, and it's wonderful. All of the clickiness and none of the ringing, for maybe an hour of work and $5. Whoever came up with it originally is a genius.

If someone could go back in time to the 80s and tell the IBM engineers about it, I wonder if all model Fs (and Ms) would have ended up built with a dampening material inside the springs (though not with actual dental floss of course).

User avatar
robo

30 Sep 2021, 00:15

fruitnuke wrote:
29 Sep 2021, 23:52
Just tried out the floss mod on my F77, and it's wonderful. All of the clickiness and none of the ringing, for maybe an hour of work and $5. Whoever came up with it originally is a genius.

If someone could go back in time to the 80s and tell the IBM engineers about it, I wonder if all model Fs (and Ms) would have ended up built with a dampening material inside the springs (though not with actual dental floss of course).
Maybe I should give it another chance, but I floss modded my Model M a while back and hated that it made each key sound a little different from the next - the damping wasn't consistent. Started to really bug me, so I painstakingly pulled each bit of floss back out... and I still have a lifetime supply of that denture flossing crap or whatever it was!

User avatar
Pete

30 Sep 2021, 01:45

fruitnuke wrote:
29 Sep 2021, 23:52
Just tried out the floss mod on my F77, and it's wonderful. All of the clickiness and none of the ringing, for maybe an hour of work and $5. Whoever came up with it originally is a genius.
I tried with an inside strand from a paracord and it reduced the pinging quite noticeably, but not completely. I only managed to get 3 keys done before getting frustrated and deciding to live with the ping. :)

User avatar
thefarside

30 Sep 2021, 03:04

fruitnuke wrote:
29 Sep 2021, 23:52
Just tried out the floss mod on my F77, and it's wonderful. All of the clickiness and none of the ringing, for maybe an hour of work and $5. Whoever came up with it originally is a genius.

If someone could go back in time to the 80s and tell the IBM engineers about it, I wonder if all model Fs (and Ms) would have ended up built with a dampening material inside the springs (though not with actual dental floss of course).
Totally agree. The floss mod made mine sound perfect.

fruitnuke

30 Sep 2021, 03:24

robo wrote:
30 Sep 2021, 00:15
Maybe I should give it another chance, but I floss modded my Model M a while back and hated that it made each key sound a little different from the next - the damping wasn't consistent. Started to really bug me, so I painstakingly pulled each bit of floss back out... and I still have a lifetime supply of that denture flossing crap or whatever it was!
Interesting. For me that was also true before the mod - each key had a slightly different sound, including the ping, depending on how each spring sat. The mod doesn't change that variability for me, just gets rid of the ringing. It is true that the piece of floss adds another variable in exactly how the springs buckle, though. It's early days with the mod in place, so it may be the case that I end up having to tweak some of the floss, just as occasionally I have to tweak or reseat a spring that doesn't feel right.

On the plus side, my keyboard does smell minty fresh now ;)
Pete wrote:
30 Sep 2021, 01:45
I tried with an inside strand from a paracord and it reduced the pinging quite noticeably, but not completely. I only managed to get 3 keys done before getting frustrated and deciding to live with the ping. :)
I went with what appears to be the standard recommendation of using Oral B Super Floss, and the results are good with no ping at all. The (fluffy?) floss fills up the inside of the spring nicely. I cut it so that there's a small gap left at the top of the spring, and that seems to have worked well (each piece about 14-15mm).

I... kinda like the ping? I've had my F77 for almost a month now and enjoyed the ringing at first, but after a while it just seemed unnecessary - there's enough audio feedback from the click. So I do like the pings, but not as much as I like not having the pings!

NathanA

04 Oct 2021, 14:02

I had ordered the regular pearl/pebble caps from Ellipse for my boards, but here's my black board sporting some gray caps I had from Unicomp. I think I rather like the gray on black look, and it's making me think I should buy a set of 60% grays from Ellipse... 8-)

Image

Here it is with the main rows lined up with a Model M (my daily driver for many years)...perfection!

Image

[...]
Ellipse wrote:
26 Sep 2021, 18:34
NathanA the angle of the interior plate should be nearly identical between the zinc and ultra compact cases - that's how it was designed - to be close to the Model M and original Model F angles.
To be clear, I'm not talking about the angle of the plate, but how far the distance is between the top of the keycaps on the bottom row, and the surface of the desk that the keyboard sits on.

The stated height dimensions of the ultra compact vs. classic cases are 25mm and 30mm (though tomshardware says 29mm, and that's actually what I get when I measure myself). But the "notch" cut out of the bottom of the classic case (below the bottom row of keys) sits at about 22mm high when I measure it, so it's a good 6-7mm lower than the top of the case.

So if the ultra compact case is universally 25mm high on all sides, but the bottom of the classic case is only 22mm high, then it sure seems like either one of two things has to be true: 1) the ultra compact as a whole sits 3mm higher than the classic, or 2) the bottom lip of the ultra compact sits 3mm higher than the bottom lip of the classic, but the height of the keys themselves when mounted inside is identical between the two. 3mm isn't a lot, but it's also not nothing...

...or maybe 3) I'm all wet? :lol:

Anyway, that's why I'm curious to see a classic and an ultra compact lined up horizontally, similar to how I lined up my F77 classic with the M.

NathanA

07 Oct 2021, 12:08

So even after reading back through this (very long ;)) thread, there are still many parts of the software story as it currently stands that are unclear to me. (Given the length, I'm sure I missed something, or even a lot of somethings!)

Even though it seems to work well for the majority of people who have tried it -- and well enough to become the new default, shipping firmware for orders dispatched over the last year -- apparently the QMK port to this board is still considered 'beta'. (Perhaps this has nothing to do with the level of stability and functionality, and is just because the code hasn't been reformatted and refactored up to the QMK project's standards for it to be merged back into the official project?) And there are a number of admonitions to New Model F board owners to PM @pandrew in order to "request access" to the beta. Is that suggestion relevant any longer? I presume that what most people wanted to be "granted access" to was the web-based QMK configurator fork that had support for these boards, but isn't that what's now (publicly) linked to in the description of @Ellipse's YouTube video?

If I was looking for access to @pandrew's Git repository for his QMK port (as mentioned by @Ellipse in his firmware build instructions from back in April), is that (also?) now publicly available, or do I still need to PM him to get access to that? I did find a Github page for at least *a* QMK fork by him located here, but there's a billion + 1 different "f_" branches...which one is the one under active development (or am I expected to merge them all together myself if I want to do my own build?), and which one is the branch that @Ellipse based his builds off of? (Maybe I need to ask privately to be given access to that?)

Similar question for the VIA patches that I understand @darkcruix is responsible for: I found a public Github fork from him over here, but from looking at the commits, this only appears to contain his solenoid-based work, not the VIA stuff.

Whatever happened to https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/code/? Has it been deprecated? What -- if anything -- has taken its place? It's referenced several times in this thread, but when you try to go to it now, it just redirects back to the root of the site. (Doesn't even return a 404...? Also, archive.org doesn't have the modelfkeyboards.com site archived & says the URL has been excluded. :()

Can somebody explain to me exactly what the eeprom_eraser.hex payload is supposed to do? Peering at the contents, it doesn't look like what I'd expect, which is just a bunch of 0s to be written to the EEPROM address range...it actually looks like executable code that gets written to flash! Perhaps the code itself erases the EEPROM after you write it to flash and reboot the controller, and then it immediately chains over to the DFU/bootloader after it's done? If that's the case, though, then why does @darkcruix's technical manual instruct you first to flash eeprom_eraser, and then to follow that up with a click of the "Clear EEPROM" button in the QMK Toolbox? As far as I can tell, QMK Toolbox's Clear EEPROM button actually clears the EEPROM by flashing the embedded reset.eep file (which IS just a bunch of 0s directed at the EEPROM!) using an embedded copy of dfu-programmer, in which case I don't understand the point of eeprom_eraser.hex or what it's actually doing. Is the source code for this thing available anywhere? It looks like it originated from @xwhatsit and was pulled from his original ibm_capsense firmware distributions, but although all of the source code for ibm_capsense is available, I can't find the sources for the eeprom_eraser itself...

Thanks, all, and sorry for the long and detailed questions!

daphnis

07 Oct 2021, 13:09

There seems to be a new firmware, but, for some reason, I can't find a simple
link to the (source code of the) installer or instructions in plain text.
There is a video with text that I absolutely can't find the patience to watch.
Can anyone help please?

Also, what is the advantage of the new firmware over the original as modified
by pandrew? Is the interface better? Does it allow configuration without a
GUI?

NathanA

07 Oct 2021, 15:10

daphnis wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 13:09
There seems to be a new firmware, but, for some reason, I can't find a simple link to the (source code of the) installer or instructions in plain text. There is a video with text that I absolutely can't find the patience to watch. Can anyone help please?

Also, what is the advantage of the new firmware over the original as modified by pandrew? Is the interface better? Does it allow configuration without a GUI?
pandrew has worked on 2 different firmware options. Looking at your posting history (assuming you have not touched the firmware on your board since you posted about it back in spring 2020), I'm guessing you are using the original xwhatsit ibm_capsense patched by pandrew, and not the QMK firmware later ported to this board's controller which was also done by pandrew.

ibm_capsense is the firmware that was originally designed and written from the ground up by the same guy who designed the USB controller board: xwhatsit. The controller board was originally designed as a drop-in replacement for genuine IBM-manufactured Model Fs, and released to the world as an open source project. A modified version of the controller (with USB-C connector, etc.) was used for this repro project.

QMK is an open source USB keyboard controller firmware project that aims to support MANY keyboards...it is not Model F specific. It just so happens to support the particular line of SoCs that the xwhatsit board was designed around (Atmel AVR), so pandrew ported QMK over to the xwhatsit controller, completely doing away with the original firmware. In essence, it's a total rewrite. And as a result, none of the PC host-side utilities you're familiar with will work anymore if you decide to switch to QMK.

The main advantage to the QMK firmware as ported by pandrew is the much enhanced auto-calibration of the capacitive sensing mechanism threshold. It is virtually plug-and-play and no longer requires that you fiddle about with manual threshold tweaking. QMK itself is a bit more involved than the old xwhatsit firmware when it comes to customizing the keyboard layout, though, since every time you want to change the layout, you essentially have to modify the firmware source code, recompile it, and reflash the controller. There IS a GUI configurator for assisting with this, but it's web-based, and what it basically does on the back-end (web-server-side!) is maintain a build environment for the firmware and perform the recompile for you, spitting out a new firmware image for you to download and flash to your controller once it's done.

There is a third option, though: there's an outfit who has come up with a (closed-source) native Windows/Mac/Linux GUI keyboard layout configurator utility, called VIA. QMK can be patched to support being controlled by VIA, and darkcruix has made the necessary modifications to the version of QMK that pandrew put out. A VIA-enabled version of QMK can have keyboard layout adjusted on-the-fly without recompiling & reflashing.

So, ...yeah. Lots of options to choose from: 1) original xwhatsit, 2) QMK, and now 3) QMK+VIA. And you can even go back and forth between any of them to try each of them out and see which is the best fit for you.

What takes up the majority of the time in Ellipse's Youtube video is walking people through setting up their PC with the necessary software to be able to perform a flash of the controller. Reading your past posts, it sounds like you're already familiar with dfu-programmer under Linux. So all you really need to do to get started with the new firmware options is to download the bundle of precompiled firmware files from Ellipse's site. Since QMK has the keyboard layout embedded within the firmware code itself, there are multiple versions of the firmware included in that ZIP archive that you can just flash directly to your board. The included JSON files contain the layout definitions that you can feed into the QMK build in order to accomplish that particular layout, should you want to build from source yourself OR feed them into the QMK web configurator. Speaking of, if you want the "pure" QMK experience but also want to customize it, then you'll want to go to this QMK web configurator site (which I believe is hosted by pandrew and is the only one that cranks out QMK firmwares with support for xwhatsit). And finally, if you want to give VIA-enhanced QMK a go, then flash one of the hex files with "VIA" in the name, download the VIA utility, and then make sure to enable the "Design" tab in the interface and then point VIA to the appropriate "Via program - load this if you have the [F62/F77].json" file from the bundle, which loads the support for these keyboards into the VIA configurator (for this bit, you might actually want to watch the part of the Youtube video that deals with this...skip all of the flashing stuff since you already know how to do that).

Hope this helps.

Ellipse

07 Oct 2021, 17:11

NathanA wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 15:10
daphnis wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 13:09
There seems to be a new firmware, but, for some reason, I can't find a simple link to the (source code of the) installer or instructions in plain text. There is a video with text that I absolutely can't find the patience to watch. Can anyone help please?

Also, what is the advantage of the new firmware over the original as modified by pandrew? Is the interface better? Does it allow configuration without a GUI?
pandrew has worked on 2 different firmware options. Looking at your posting history (assuming you have not touched the firmware on your board since you posted about it back in spring 2020), I'm guessing you are using the original xwhatsit ibm_capsense patched by pandrew, and not the QMK firmware later ported to this board's controller which was also done by pandrew.

ibm_capsense is the firmware that was originally designed and written from the ground up by the same guy who designed the USB controller board: xwhatsit. The controller board was originally designed as a drop-in replacement for genuine IBM-manufactured Model Fs, and released to the world as an open source project. A modified version of the controller (with USB-C connector, etc.) was used for this repro project.

QMK is an open source USB keyboard controller firmware project that aims to support MANY keyboards...it is not Model F specific. It just so happens to support the particular line of SoCs that the xwhatsit board was designed around (Atmel AVR), so pandrew ported QMK over to the xwhatsit controller, completely doing away with the original firmware. In essence, it's a total rewrite. And as a result, none of the PC host-side utilities you're familiar with will work anymore if you decide to switch to QMK.

The main advantage to the QMK firmware as ported by pandrew is the much enhanced auto-calibration of the capacitive sensing mechanism threshold. It is virtually plug-and-play and no longer requires that you fiddle about with manual threshold tweaking. QMK itself is a bit more involved than the old xwhatsit firmware when it comes to customizing the keyboard layout, though, since every time you want to change the layout, you essentially have to modify the firmware source code, recompile it, and reflash the controller. There IS a GUI configurator for assisting with this, but it's web-based, and what it basically does on the back-end (web-server-side!) is maintain a build environment for the firmware and perform the recompile for you, spitting out a new firmware image for you to download and flash to your controller once it's done.

There is a third option, though: there's an outfit who has come up with a (closed-source) native Windows/Mac/Linux GUI keyboard layout configurator utility, called VIA. QMK can be patched to support being controlled by VIA, and darkcruix has made the necessary modifications to the version of QMK that pandrew put out. A VIA-enabled version of QMK can have keyboard layout adjusted on-the-fly without recompiling & reflashing.

So, ...yeah. Lots of options to choose from: 1) original xwhatsit, 2) QMK, and now 3) QMK+VIA. And you can even go back and forth between any of them to try each of them out and see which is the best fit for you.

What takes up the majority of the time in Ellipse's Youtube video is walking people through setting up their PC with the necessary software to be able to perform a flash of the controller. Reading your past posts, it sounds like you're already familiar with dfu-programmer under Linux. So all you really need to do to get started with the new firmware options is to download the bundle of precompiled firmware files from Ellipse's site. Since QMK has the keyboard layout embedded within the firmware code itself, there are multiple versions of the firmware included in that ZIP archive that you can just flash directly to your board. The included JSON files contain the layout definitions that you can feed into the QMK build in order to accomplish that particular layout, should you want to build from source yourself OR feed them into the QMK web configurator. Speaking of, if you want the "pure" QMK experience but also want to customize it, then you'll want to go to this QMK web configurator site (which I believe is hosted by pandrew and is the only one that cranks out QMK firmwares with support for xwhatsit). And finally, if you want to give VIA-enhanced QMK a go, then flash one of the hex files with "VIA" in the name, download the VIA utility, and then make sure to enable the "Design" tab in the interface and then point VIA to the appropriate "Via program - load this if you have the [F62/F77].json" file from the bundle, which loads the support for these keyboards into the VIA configurator (for this bit, you might actually want to watch the part of the Youtube video that deals with this...skip all of the flashing stuff since you already know how to do that).

Hope this helps.
Very helpful overview; thanks NathanA!

Ellipse

08 Oct 2021, 06:31

Is anyone interested in changing their new Model F Keyboard order to an F62 scumnc / scumyc with the Industrial Gray, True Red, or Silver Gray case? This is one of the two available extras that the factory made, currently not claimed by anyone.

We'll go by the first two people to post a reply on either this thread or over on the GH project thread (two total keyboards across the threads). It should be moved up to ship this month, probably in the next week or so.

The only extras you'd need to order are the scumnc 3 key set on the Extra Keys page as well as the $10 US / $20 international split shipping option (as well as the True Red / Silver Gray case color upgrade if you don't have that color already and would like it) as the scumnc keys and some other keys are not yet ready.

After this, starting next week I am switching gears to mail out all the split shipping key sets that are "all in stock" - the order will be the low serials prioritized first, followed by the other orders in sequence of when you ordered.
Last edited by Ellipse on 08 Oct 2021, 18:19, edited 1 time in total.

NathanA

08 Oct 2021, 10:34

Ellipse wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 17:11
Very helpful overview; thanks NathanA!
Thanks. As a relative n00b here who only recently got somewhat up to speed myself, I thought a summary of where things currently stand firmware-wise might be useful both to other people in my same shoes as well as to anybody who may have gotten here early but hasn't managed to keep up...a lot has clearly transpired in 1.5 years, and 227 pages is a bit daunting.

Tangentially related: I know that most of the questions I posed in my prior post don't pertain directly to you, but do you have any insight you would be able & willing to share re: what happened to the code previously hosted on your site?
NathanA wrote:
07 Oct 2021, 12:08
Whatever happened to https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/code/? Has it been deprecated? What -- if anything -- has taken its place? It's referenced several times in this thread, but when you try to go to it now, it just redirects back to the root of the site. (Doesn't even return a 404...? Also, archive.org doesn't have the modelfkeyboards.com site archived & says the URL has been excluded. :()
Thanks as always! Still loving these keyboards.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

08 Oct 2021, 11:14

Nice write-up indeed Nathan. If I were you, I'd fire up a new thread in the Workshop subforum, with that explanation as its first post, so people can be linked there. OPs are magic that way. Much easier to find and more authoritative than post "494292" in a thread.

I've tried all three firmware families on my OG Kishsaver, incidentally. They all work. QMK-derived ones are way superior to Xwhatsit's (otherwise excellent) original because of the per-key thresholds. Machine-gun keys and calibration nightmares begone!

daphnis

08 Oct 2021, 14:45

Thank you, Nathan!

daphnis

08 Oct 2021, 15:01

So, the relevant version of QMK is this?

https://github.com/purdeaandrei/qmk_firmware

(There's no mention of model F in the readme or in the list of supported
keyboards.) If I flash this and it turns out to be too complicated, can I just
use the xwhatsit gui to reflash the old firmware?

NathanA

08 Oct 2021, 15:37

daphnis wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 15:01
So, the relevant version of QMK is this?

https://github.com/purdeaandrei/qmk_firmware
That's (at least one of) the git repository(/ies) that pandrew has set up which is forked off of the main QMK project. Are you trying to build from source or something?

It is not clear to me if the public "beta" firmware that Ellipse has been shipping out with recent boards & that everybody seems to be using here is reflected in that repository, and if so, which branch one needs to check out in order to get the most up-to-date sources (there are many, many, many branches in there that start with "f_" which presumably contain changes for the Model F). I asked this very question in a post right above yours and have yet to receive a response. So if you're trying to do a build from *source*, I don't have an answer for you yet (or for myself). I will likely PM both pandrew and darkcruix before too long if nobody chimes in publicly.

But if all you want to do is start using QMK, you don't need to grab the sources, set up a build environment, etc. I *already* put links to the relevant prebuilt QMK *binaries* (well, ASCII representation of the hex values of said binaries, heh) in the last paragraph of my response.

So you want to flash to QMK using one of Ellipse's pre-defined layouts for your board, just download the ZIP file I linked to, find the right "hex" file whose name clearly spells out the layout that you want, and flash it as you have previously flashed xwhatsit firmware updates to your board before (putting board in bootloader/DFU mode, then using dfu-programmer to erase EEPROM -- if you don't know how to do that then let me know -- and then finally write the hex file to flash).

If you want a custom layout, then you visit the QMK configurator URL that I *also* stuck in my last paragraph, set your board type as appropriate, make the layout whatever you want, and then tell the website to generate your firmware (hex file) for you. Once it has been downloaded, then again you just flash it the same way as before.

Personally, I highly recommend going the VIA route. In which case, you would just flash one of the hex files from that ZIP archive whose name starts with "Via"...again, exactly the same as flashing anything else! After that, install the VIA utility that I also linked to back in my previous post.

If you want to return to xwhatsit after flashing any variant of QMK, just put your keyboard controller into DFU mode (can be accomplished with most default Ellipse QMK layouts with Fn+Space+R, but if worse comes to worst, you can open up the keyboard and physically short the proper pads to kick it into bootloader mode) and then re-flash back the same xwhatsit firmware file that you flashed to your keyboard back in spring 2020 (again, after making sure to wipe EEPROM...I may do a separate post about this).

If proper usage of dfu-programmer isn't coming back to you, I'd go back and re-read your own posts from back then in this thread. :)

If any of this feels "clear as mud" to you, then...you won't like to hear this, but that's probably a good sign that you should sit through the entire 16 minute Youtube video. :)

User avatar
daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

08 Oct 2021, 17:24

Received notification that mine has been shipped... can't wait! :D

daphnis

08 Oct 2021, 17:42

Thanks again, Nathan, this is really helpful.
NathanA wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 15:37
Are you trying to build from source or something?
Well, I want to change the layout, and I would rather build from source than do
this through a web site. (I'd rather stick with xwhatsit than use a web site.)
If I understood you correctly, the only alternative to using the web site (or
Via) is to build from (a modified) source. I don't want to use any proprietary
software (such as Via) either.

NathanA

08 Oct 2021, 20:32

daphnis wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 17:42
Well, I want to change the layout, and I would rather build from source than do this through a web site. (I'd rather stick with xwhatsit than use a web site.)
Well at the moment, as far as I can tell, it doesn't appear that the source has been made publicly available. So I think until we get some clarification from pandrew, your choices are to use the web site, or to use VIA, or to stick with xwhatsit.

Ellipse

08 Oct 2021, 20:55

NathanA please check out the manual on the project web site where there are links and instructions to access the latest version of the publicly available pandrew source, along with notes on my modifications to the QMK settings used for the new Model F QMK firmware.

NathanA

08 Oct 2021, 21:22

Ellipse wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 20:55
NathanA please check out the manual on the project web site where there are links and instructions to access the latest version of the publicly available pandrew source, along with notes on my modifications to the QMK settings used for the new Model F QMK firmware.
I have looked through your instructions in the manual on your web page, and in the place where one might expect a git repo URL to be, it shows this:
git clone [insert URL here – contact pandrew for access to pandrew’s git project]
If there is someplace else in the manual where that URL would be, then I'm apparently blind. The URL for his xwhatsit patches are in the manual, as is the URL for the main QMK project repo (so that one can use it to build QMK Toolbox). But a URL to the actual source code for the pandrew fork of QMK is nowhere to be found.

EDIT: Unless you're suggesting that the sources are somehow able to be fetched from his QMK web configurator? If that's the case, though, I'm not seeing that either...

daphnis

08 Oct 2021, 22:06

NathanA wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 21:22
then I'm apparently blind.
Or it's really well hidden. There's a link to a post that has a link to a
google document

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B6 ... p=sharing

that has

Code: Select all

git clone http://purdea.ro/qmk_firmware

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