F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[NathanA]

I'd guess that after his xwhatsit stock has been depleted,

You correctly spotted the reason why I said that I am surprised

I think we are talking past each other, somehow. Perhaps a language barrier issue. Not sure.

Why would you expect his xwhatsit stock to be depleted by this point? This actually does go back *exactly* to my point about "lead times". He ordered a bunch more xwhatsits when he told the factory to begin building these keyboards MONTHS ago, BECAUSE he needed to order SOMETHING...you can't make a keyboard without a controller. The xwhatsit was a "known quantity", and at the same time the Leyden Jar wasn't even ready yet! So naturally he ordered a bunch of xwhatsits. Why is this so difficult to understand?

So, yes, I am sure he still has quite a few more xwhatsits to burn through. Not surprising in the least.

Your complaint appears to boil down to, "I can't believe that Ellipse didn't use this thing that didn't exist until 5 minutes ago." Which is absurd. (Obviously the "5 minutes" part is hyperbole. But you get the point.)

I would not go for one of Ellipse's keyboards which are based on xwhatsit controllers just to empty his stock.
If I would have to do it, I would replace the controller. This cost would add to the $399+shipping.

That makes sense for you and your priorities. I guess it's good that different people have different needs, and prioritize different things. The majority of the build cost of this keyboard is not in the controller being used. I think that much is obvious. I would guess that people who are buying these keyboards now are doing so because they are in the market for something that literally doesn't exist anywhere else: a Model F with an IBM Enhanced Keyboard layout and form-factor, in a metal enclosure. If you have the luxury of putting off your purchase indefinitely until the controller changes, and you do so because you put so much value on the controller being used, then that's perfectly valid. Others would apparently rather have their keyboards sooner than that.

A nice way to state that it is stock related

????

Ellipse is confirming exactly what I suspected: he had a manufacturing lead time issue that required him to order controllers before Leyden Jar was ready. Now he has to use them.

BTW: do you ship your keyboards Firmware VIAL ?

Yes, he is shipping them with Vial. (Only "VIA" is capitalized. "Vial" is not.)

My xwhatsit ended up without memory when I tried to compile VIAL on them

I am aware of this issue. I built the firmwares that Ellipse is loading onto these keyboards. I had to jump through some hoops to make it work. Memory limitation in xwhatsit's Atmel micro definitely makes it difficult, and does add limitations.

The first thing that I noticed when installing (Rico's) RP2040 Leyden Jar was its speed. It is noticeble faster.

Yes, we are all aware of the difference between the xwhatsit and Leyden Jar in terms of the microprocessor being used. But I am confused: are you saying you experience typing lag with xwhatsit? I have personally never seen this.

[...] I was surprised to read that AVR-xwhatsit keyboards are sold at the end of 2024.

Chronological fallacy.

Well done Rico. Respect !

Yes, agreed. I too think Rico has done an amazing job. I'm not arguing otherwise; nobody is. And I am very much looking forward to a future full of capacitive keyboards driven by Leyden Jars.

What we are talking about right here, right now are hard, practical, real-world realities.

Basically one can enable all VIAL options:

From your list, here are the features my Vial firmwares for xwhatsit currently support:

Layers (3)
Macros (16)
Tap dances (4)
Combos (4)
Mouse Keys

[idollar]

Your complaint appears to boil down to, "I can't believe that Ellipse didn't use this thing that didn't exist until 5 minutes ago." Which is absurd. (Obviously the "5 minutes" part is hyperbole. But you get the point.)

Apologies, I do not get the point. Please, do not put words in my mouth. I wrote what I wanted to state.

1.- I said that I am surprised to read that these keyboards are sold with an xwhatsit controller. I expected to find the Leyden Jar on them. I have not complained. How may I complain about something that I did not buy ? I just expressed surprise.
2.- I added that I would not buy a modern model-f which is based on the old xwhatsit. In the later, "I" = "I".

I will stop this conversation here. It does not make sense to continue.
I guess that we that we disagree

[idollar]

Error/Mistake --- disregard

[idollar]

Error/Mistake - disregard

[Rotti]

Quick question. Just getting a new controller from the site installed into an original Model T AT and was wondering what the reason was behind having to short J1 on the RP2040, or if that is still needed.

[NathanA]

Quick question. Just getting a new controller from the site installed into an original Model T AT and was wondering what the reason was behind having to short J1 on the RP2040, or if that is still needed.

I was confused by your reference to RP2040 since that is the microcontroller used on Leyden Jar, while any references to "shorting J1" are in the context of a Pro Micro, which is ATmega based (specifically, 32u4, vs. the original xwhatsit which uses 32u2). Furthermore, though it should be entirely possible to install a Leyden Jar in any buckling spring capsense 'board including an F AT, you implied you ordered your controller from Ellipse, and though he has Leyden Jars listed on the order form, lower down in the description it is explained he doesn't yet stock these in quantity & thus this is a pre-order situation (not sure if that information is stale or still current, though, admittedly). So if you have a Leyden Jar, you would have needed to order some yourself from a build-to-order outfit like PCBWay or JLCPCB, etc. or participate in someone else's group buy for one.

So I'm going to assume the "RP2040" reference in your post is a mistake, and you really mean that you bought one of the "universal"-style "SMD Model F Controllers" that are driven by a Pro Micro, which it looks like Ellipse is now also manufacturing and selling in addition to the small "wcass" xwhatsits.

According to this post by pandrew discussing these Pro Micro driven controllers, under "Assembly Instructions", it clearly states that "You MUST short the J1 jumper on the 5V pro micro", though he doesn't explain why (for the benefit of us who are unfamiliar with the Pro Micro). Googling around for more information about J1 on the Pro Micro leads me to this site, which gives a very good explanation for the reason: J1 controls whether you are using the on-board voltage regulator or not. On the 5V version, if you feed it 5V and keep the voltage regulator in-circuit, the resulting output will experience a slight voltage drop. Therefore if you have no need for the voltage regulator (which you'd use in order to step the voltage DOWN when you are feeding it MORE than 5V), because something upstream of the Pro Micro is already guaranteeing clean 5V DC power, then it is best to not use the Pro Micro's regulator. This is exactly the situation you would have when driving a Pro Micro using USB, since USB spec (outside of newer USB-PD stuff) requires the use of 5V. Presumably the design of the capsense circuitry downstream of the Pro Micro assumes a steady 5V and needs every bit of that, thus the "you MUST" language in the documentation for this controller.

For what it's worth, about a year ago I built a Vial firmware for somebody who installed an xwhatsit controller into their F AT. I've still got the layout files around, so if you are interested I could easily adapt this to build a F AT Vial firmware for this "universal" style controller.

[Rotti]

Quick question. Just getting a new controller from the site installed into an original Model T AT and was wondering what the reason was behind having to short J1 on the RP2040, or if that is still needed.

I was confused by your reference to RP2040 since that is the microcontroller used on Leyden Jar, while any references to "shorting J1" are in the context of a Pro Micro, which is ATmega based (specifically, 32u4, vs. the original xwhatsit which uses 32u2). Furthermore, though it should be entirely possible to install a Leyden Jar in any buckling spring capsense 'board including an F AT, you implied you ordered your controller from Ellipse, and though he has Leyden Jars listed on the order form, lower down in the description it is explained he doesn't yet stock these in quantity & thus this is a pre-order situation (not sure if that information is stale or still current, though, admittedly). So if you have a Leyden Jar, you would have needed to order some yourself from a build-to-order outfit like PCBWay or JLCPCB, etc. or participate in someone else's group buy for one.

So I'm going to assume the "RP2040" reference in your post is a mistake, and you really mean that you bought one of the "universal"-style "SMD Model F Controllers" that are driven by a Pro Micro, which it looks like Ellipse is now also manufacturing and selling in addition to the small "wcass" xwhatsits.

According to this post by pandrew discussing these Pro Micro driven controllers, under "Assembly Instructions", it clearly states that "You MUST short the J1 jumper on the 5V pro micro", though he doesn't explain why (for the benefit of us who are unfamiliar with the Pro Micro). Googling around for more information about J1 on the Pro Micro leads me to this site, which gives a very good explanation for the reason: J1 controls whether you are using the on-board voltage regulator or not. On the 5V version, if you feed it 5V and keep the voltage regulator in-circuit, the resulting output will experience a slight voltage drop. Therefore if you have no need for the voltage regulator (which you'd use in order to step the voltage DOWN when you are feeding it MORE than 5V), because something upstream of the Pro Micro is already guaranteeing clean 5V DC power, then it is best to not use the Pro Micro's regulator. This is exactly the situation you would have when driving a Pro Micro using USB, since USB spec (outside of newer USB-PD stuff) requires the use of 5V. Presumably the design of the capsense circuitry downstream of the Pro Micro assumes a steady 5V and needs every bit of that, thus the "you MUST" language in the documentation for this controller.

For what it's worth, about a year ago I built a Vial firmware for somebody who installed an xwhatsit controller into their F AT. I've still got the layout files around, so if you are interested I could easily adapt this to build a F AT Vial firmware for this "universal" style controller.

Sorry about that, yes, it is a pro micro with the "universal controller". I am not that worried about the firmware. The QMK stuff should work just fine. The only issues I had really firmware wise with my Kishy were pretty much all user error on my end.

Just curious, what is this pandrew utility I am seeing screenshots of with signal levels? For what it's worth, I am on Windows 10. Most of the screenshots I have seen look to be Linux based. But I could be wrong.

[NathanA]

The QMK stuff should work just fine. The only issues I had really firmware wise with my Kishy were pretty much all user error on my end.

Just to be clear, "Vial" firmware is not really a wholly separate firmware project, but is the same QMK firmware you're already used to (so, QMK + pandrew's port of it to Model F capsense controllers that are based on the xwhatsit design), with some extensions and additional niceties added to it. The primary advantage is that unlike "raw" QMK, it doesn't require you to re-compile and re-flash a firmware every time you want to make a change to your keyboard layout (whether that be by re-compiling on your own PC, or being dependent on the "QMK Configurator" web site to produce a firmware image for you with the exact layout you want). Instead, you just run an app on your PC that allows you to instantly see what your current key mappings are, and change them on the fly.

Just curious, what is this pandrew utility I am seeing screenshots of with signal levels? For what it's worth, I am on Windows 10. Most of the screenshots I have seen look to be Linux based. But I could be wrong.

"pandrew" is just the moniker that Mr. Andrei goes by online. He is the one who is responsible for making QMK a reality on the xwhatsit controller (& its derivatives, such as the controller that you bought). He developed a diagnostics app that that can communicate with a keyboard controller running some variant of his QMK port in order to help you troubleshoot common hardware issues. It is multiplatform and exists for Windows, Mac, and Linux. You can download & check it out for yourself from my site; the version of the utility that I distribute works both with keyboards running the Vial firmwares I build, and also with the original QMK firmware it is descended from.

This is strictly a diagnostic utility & does not provide you with a means of reprogrammability; for that, you need the separate Vial app.

[Rotti]

The QMK stuff should work just fine. The only issues I had really firmware wise with my Kishy were pretty much all user error on my end.

Just to be clear, "Vial" firmware is not really a wholly separate firmware project, but is the same QMK firmware you're already used to (so, QMK + pandrew's port of it to Model F capsense controllers that are based on the xwhatsit design), with some extensions and additional niceties added to it. The primary advantage is that unlike "raw" QMK, it doesn't require you to re-compile and re-flash a firmware every time you want to make a change to your keyboard layout (whether that be by re-compiling on your own PC, or being dependent on the "QMK Configurator" web site to produce a firmware image for you with the exact layout you want). Instead, you just run an app on your PC that allows you to instantly see what your current key mappings are, and change them on the fly.

Just curious, what is this pandrew utility I am seeing screenshots of with signal levels? For what it's worth, I am on Windows 10. Most of the screenshots I have seen look to be Linux based. But I could be wrong.

"pandrew" is just the moniker that Mr. Andrei goes by online. He is the one who is responsible for making QMK a reality on the xwhatsit controller (& its derivatives, such as the controller that you bought). He developed a diagnostics app that that can communicate with a keyboard controller running some variant of his QMK port in order to help you troubleshoot common hardware issues. It is multiplatform and exists for Windows, Mac, and Linux. You can download & check it out for yourself from my site; the version of the utility that I distribute works both with keyboards running the Vial firmwares I build, and also with the original QMK firmware it is descended from.

This is strictly a diagnostic utility & does not provide you with a means of reprogrammability; for that, you need the separate Vial app.

Sounds good. I will dig into that tomorrow.

[Ellipse]

The latest air shipment from the factory arrived this week (the final beam spring keyboard samples were excellent and everything was approved for production today!). Here are some of the Model F items:

Some more Model F JIS, Russian Hebrew English, and Hebrew English sets arrived. All orders will now be fulfilled with the new production sets. Everyone please let me know if there are any other sets you'd like to have made. Email me for details (I no longer receive Deskthority notifications due to some kind of site error so PM's are not recommended at the moment).

The Apple/Mac F1-F15 key sets arrived.

[Rotti]

The QMK stuff should work just fine. The only issues I had really firmware wise with my Kishy were pretty much all user error on my end.

Just to be clear, "Vial" firmware is not really a wholly separate firmware project, but is the same QMK firmware you're already used to (so, QMK + pandrew's port of it to Model F capsense controllers that are based on the xwhatsit design), with some extensions and additional niceties added to it. The primary advantage is that unlike "raw" QMK, it doesn't require you to re-compile and re-flash a firmware every time you want to make a change to your keyboard layout (whether that be by re-compiling on your own PC, or being dependent on the "QMK Configurator" web site to produce a firmware image for you with the exact layout you want). Instead, you just run an app on your PC that allows you to instantly see what your current key mappings are, and change them on the fly.

Just curious, what is this pandrew utility I am seeing screenshots of with signal levels? For what it's worth, I am on Windows 10. Most of the screenshots I have seen look to be Linux based. But I could be wrong.

"pandrew" is just the moniker that Mr. Andrei goes by online. He is the one who is responsible for making QMK a reality on the xwhatsit controller (& its derivatives, such as the controller that you bought). He developed a diagnostics app that that can communicate with a keyboard controller running some variant of his QMK port in order to help you troubleshoot common hardware issues. It is multiplatform and exists for Windows, Mac, and Linux. You can download & check it out for yourself from my site; the version of the utility that I distribute works both with keyboards running the Vial firmwares I build, and also with the original QMK firmware it is descended from.

This is strictly a diagnostic utility & does not provide you with a means of reprogrammability; for that, you need the separate Vial app.

Looking to get my PC AT programmed. Using the universal with the Pro Micro. I am getting this from the QMK Toolbox. Any idea?

Edit: Got it working. But still curious about that.

PCAT.png (41.02 KiB) Viewed 3253 times

[RaoulRod]

So, unboxing for the F104:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kcj0VU0Fju4

Is it possible to get them assembled like this in the box? Or not? Or was this one special?

My FSSK came unassembled with one of the keys broken (the quotation key)

Would have much preferred getting it already put together if that was an option

[del20nd]

I took delivery of my F104 on Saturday. Right now I have it set up at my WFH workstation, sitting in for my F122 Battleship. Here are some pictures:











As you can see, the board looks exactly like an original Model M. This is the keyboard which I've been waiting for my whole life, a Model F with a fully standard layout. So far, with exception to some setup glitches which I'll mention below, I'm very satisfied with the result.

While the setup process was mostly straightforward to anyone that's dealt with rehabbing original Model F's, I did find the key stabilizers to be a bit frustrating to install, and think that these should've probably been preassembled if nothing else.

To get it out, I modified the paper trick that's linked on the setup page. Paper wasn't grippy enough to pull the stabilizer out, so I used a piece of a flat silicone gasket instead, and that was grippy enough to get the job done.

Aside from that, it was just bending the spacebar stabilizer wire into shape (the instruction here worked for me perfectly) and the normal Model F process of getting the springs to seat during key installation, which anybody whose cleaned one of the OG Model F keyboards has been through.

I've only been using the board for two days now so I'm still forming opinions on it, but compared to my 122 key Model F, it feels like the tactility is just a little bit lighter. It's probably within spec to variations of the Model F's key feel over the course of its production and it may change as the keyboard breaks in, but it is noticeably different. I personally like the lighter touch a little bit better.

Again, I'm happy with what was delivered overall.

EDIT: Amended to reflect that I made a mistake in assembly. Removed some complaints.

[del20nd]

I took delivery of my F104 on Saturday. Right now I have it set up at my WFH workstation, sitting in for my F122 Battleship. Here are some pictures:











As you can see, the board looks exactly like an original Model M. This is the keyboard which I've been waiting for my whole life, a Model F with a fully standard layout. So far, with exception to some setup glitches which I'll mention below, I'm very satisfied with the result.

While the setup process was mostly straightforward to anyone that's dealt with rehabbing original Model F's, I did find the key stabilizers to be a bit frustrating to install, and think that these should've probably been preassembled if nothing else.

To get it out, I modified the paper trick that's linked on the setup page. Paper wasn't grippy enough to pull the stabilizer out, so I used a piece of a flat silicone gasket instead, and that was grippy enough to get the job done.

Aside from that, it was just bending the spacebar stabilizer wire into shape (the instruction here worked for me perfectly) and the normal Model F process of getting the springs to seat during key installation, which anybody whose cleaned one of the OG Model F keyboards has been through.

I've only been using the board for two days now so I'm still forming opinions on it, but compared to my 122 key Model F, it feels like the tactility is just a little bit lighter. It's probably within spec to variations of the Model F's key feel over the course of its production and it may change as the keyboard breaks in, but it is noticeably different. I personally like the lighter touch a little bit better.

Again, I'm happy with what was delivered overall.

EDIT: Amended to reflect that I made a mistake in assembly. Removed some complaints.

[Ellipse]

Here is the new Chyrosran22 F104 unboxing video!

del20nd thanks for sharing these photos and notes on your setup experience! How many springs and keys needed reseating and adjustment during initial setup?

RaoulRod all keyboards come preassembled except for the keycaps and extras which the user has to install. There is no option to preinstall and set up the keyboard beforehand as it would be time and cost prohibitive. Feel free to email me so I know to replace it with the next shipment! Obviously as a one off I preinstalled the keys for Chyros but everyone still has to go through the full setup process even if the keys were installed, because keys and springs do fall out of place during rough shipping and handling (even when preinstalled) which sadly is the norm rather than the exception these days.

[Ir0n]

Ellipse, do you plan on making an "Unsaver"? Having an Unsaver in my collection would be rad. Lol

[Ellipse]

Ir0n the thing is that you'd need a new top case mold for each additional design which is quite costly. The bottom can be stamped like with the F104/FSSK/F122, which would not require a mold. The alternative is a flat case like for the compact models, which would not work for such a tall model as the unsaver or F122.

So far we have requests for the following which can be made with compact cases, probably 25 to 50 minimum order quantity at a $399 price:

Ergodox Style Split Ortho with Leyden Jar controllers (one USB cable and second keyboard half connected to the first half)
4x12 ortho Model F (Planck style)
5x12 ortho Model F (Preonic style)
6x12 ortho Model F
F20 num pad

Requests for die cast only cases (needs around 150-200 minimum order quantity for a $399 keyboard cost, unless some folks chip in for the tooling):

Unsaver

Please do reply with any other popular requests that you think can reach the minimum order quantity!

[Ellipse]

Please do share: how do you reinstall and reseat Model F springs when the flipper is installed in the keyboard?

Please let everyone know your techniques, tools used, and recommendations. Toothpick with one end trimmed down? Chopstick? A certain type of tweezers? A small screwdriver with magnet and with the end trimmed off a bit?

Some folks have trouble reinstalling the springs. Of course it is relatively easy with the flipper not installed - just align the end in the proper 12 o'clock position and push the spring on the flipper by hand.

Here is my view: Model F springs really need to be pushed down all the way onto the nub for best results, and the tweezers should be gripping closer to the bottom of the spring like in the hour-long setup video so that the spring is not bent. You should have a firm grip on the spring. A loose grip means the tool is more likely to slip and permanently damage the spring as you are installing it. If anyone is breaking springs while trying to install them then they are not being installed as shown in the setup video, which remains my preferred way to install the springs.

And here is the relevant portion of the manual with my recommendations:

This point and the following few points describe how to remove and re-seat springs, which is the main way to fix keys that are not working well. Our next step is to remove and re-seat any loose/non-working keys. Regarding re-seating springs, in nearly all cases you do not need to take apart the keyboard to fix keys that do not click or spend a few minutes pressing a troublesome key. Reattach the key as shown in the hour-long setup video linked above, with the keyboard positioned as shown in the videos (vertically, with the spacebar row up). After reinstalling the spring, be sure to carefully reinstall the keycap; I like to do this step slowly to make sure that the spring is correctly positioned inside the key because if you are pushing in the key too fast, it may bounce the spring out of place.

Often re-seating a key is not enough to make the key work or to reduce or eliminate a buzzing sound when a key is pressed, and you need to remove and reattach the spring as shown in the QC secrets video. I have found that carefully removing and flipping the spring upside down can fix most spring issues, and replacing the spring with another spring is a last, but often necessary step. Springs must always be removed with a gentle twisting motion (it should come off easily – otherwise you’re twisting the wrong way), never pulled straight up. Twist counterclockwise looking at the spring straight down, like in the below picture. Springs should always be put back by pushing them straight without twisting, as shown in the setup video. Be sure to press the spring all the way down onto the nub of the flipper so that the spring is tightly secured on the flipper. The goal is (1) to have the spring be about 1mm above the 12 o’clock position of the barrel when the keyboard is positioned that way, and (2) have the end of the spring in the 12 o’clock position relative to the flipper, as pictured below. If the spring end is not positioned at 12 o’clock (per the video) and the spring does not touch the barrel, buckling error is more likely to occur.

[RaoulRod]

I have gone through the manual, and I might have missed this part on the key seating/troubleshooting, but I am having a "timing" issue.

Got my brand new Model F FSSK. Set it up, got the keys installed, tested, they all work. However, I am having a problem with letters getting typed "out of order". For instance, if I type "as" or "th" or "in" quickly (or normally actually) there is ~50% chance that they are going to be transposed.

If I type "was" about half the time it will be "wsa" or "interested" will be "niterested"

I have checked and tested it several times. I am POSITIVE I am hitting them in the "as", "th" or "in" order but they will be reversed annoyingly often. I fell and hear the click of the "a" before the "s" but on the screen it comes out as "sa"

I am plugged directly into the computer on a USB-A port. Did not have this issue with my F77 on the same computer and port. I have run the pandrew utility and everything looks good there.

Any ideas on what is going on with the slow response to keypresses?

[Ellipse]

Part of the manual discusses your specific issue with transposed keys. Please recheck as the manual has been updated recently. The main thing to fix is removing and reinstalling the affected springs with the proper process described there and also shown in the hour-long setup video. Reports posted on the forums and messages sent to me indicate that this almost always fixes the issue.

[JLan]

Ir0n the thing is that you'd need a new top case mold for each additional design which is quite costly. The bottom can be stamped like with the F104/FSSK/F122, which would not require a mold. The alternative is a flat case like for the compact models, which would not work for such a tall model as the unsaver or F122.

So far we have requests for the following which can be made with compact cases, probably 25 to 50 minimum order quantity at a $399 price:

Ergodox Style Split Ortho with Leyden Jar controllers (one USB cable and second keyboard half connected to the first half)
4x12 ortho Model F (Planck style)
5x12 ortho Model F (Preonic style)
6x12 ortho Model F
F20 num pad

Requests for die cast only cases (needs around 150-200 minimum order quantity for a $399 keyboard cost, unless some folks chip in for the tooling):

Unsaver

Please do reply with any other popular requests that you think can reach the minimum order quantity!

Put me down as definitely someone interested in the split with one cable, as long as it will show up to the system as one keyboard (to avoid Mac issues). Real preference would be F15 style (of which I have one already) but I know that there isn't as much interest in those.

[Ellipse]

JLan there are currently F15 keyboards available. Thanks to NathanA these current keyboards all work fine on Mac if you follow the instructions.

"For the Mac, it is reported that all you have to do is install the program Karabiner Elements to share modifiers between keyboard halves; no configuration needed."

[e2o]

Any ideas on what is going on with the slow response to keypresses?

I am also having issues with VERY frequent transposed letters.

[Ellipse]

e2o did you see my reply a few posts above? Please check out the manual which has been recently updated to show a step by step process for fixing issues with keys such as transposed keys, repeated keys, etc. It is all about adjusting the springs and slowly reseating the keycap. A lot of packages are getting thrown around especially roughly this year, even enough to break keycaps and dislodge preinstalled keycaps like the spacebar. It is a normal part of the setup process to adjust the springs as needed to fix issues with keypresses.

[RedESC]

Just wondering, I will be moving house sometime in January. Just wondering if the F122 is likely to be getting shipped before that or if you'd need to update records with my new address for that?

Sorry if you have made any announcements for ship dates for the f122 lately. With me being laser focused on this move I haven't had much time to keep up with this project.

[Ellipse]

Everyone feel free to email me with shipping address changes and I will update the order.

[idollar]

Any ideas on what is going on with the slow response to keypresses?

I am also having issues with VERY frequent transposed letters.

Hello,

My recommended solution = Leyden Jar

I used to have similar issues with the xwhatsit controller in my FSSK hand-made keyboards. I had to play with the flippers and the springs. Without opening the keyboard is not an easy task.
Note that I mean the original FSSK project. I do not refer to the one that Elipse has done later using the same name. There a link to the R&D https://www.deskthority.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=690

Since I migrated into the fastest Leyden Jar the issue has completely dessapeared.

The Leyden Jar controller is credited to Rico (thanks Rico !).

• His QMK/Vial firmware the is using PIO (https://tutoduino.fr/en/pio-rp2040-en/).
• His testing tool is impressive.
• And it is all open source (thanks for that Rico!) which has allowed me to set an OLED screen and successfully connect a solenoid.

All the information can be found here : https://www.deskthority.net/viewtopic.p ... 65#p521565

Leyden Jar Sourcing and group buy

If you want to order it yourself, all source files are available at github (https://github.com/mymakercorner/Leyden_Jar). You can download them and purchase in any of the available PCB manufacturers. I ordered mine controllers from https://jlcpcb.com/ ... 10 units shipped home costed $107.

LeydenJar - ordered.jpg (37.2 KiB) Viewed 1735 times

I plan to order 20+ units in the form of a REAL GroupBuy = a DT_user orders and then, he/she distributes the controlers to he forum users using the best possible and cheap way).
I will post the Group buy very soon. The aim is to get the controllers delivered in January.

I guess that one could get them shipped in Europe for some 20 euros or less + contribution to Rico.
I will have no problems to help other users to order shipping to America, Africa, Australia or where needed.

By the way. You can contribute to Rico's work here: https://ko-fi.com/rico664646


The only alternative which I know is "new model f keyboards". They sell the controlers at $49 + shipping (https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... ontroller/)

LeydenJar.jpg (132.21 KiB) Viewed 1735 times

Cheers

i$

[NathanA]

Looking to get my PC AT programmed. Using the universal with the Pro Micro. I am getting this from the QMK Toolbox. Any idea?

Edit: Got it working. But still curious about that.

That output mostly looks fine to me. Are you talking about the mention of a "Microsoft USB Serial Device"? I do know that the bootloader on the Pro Micro is a bit screwy, in that it exposes itself as a virtualized serial port (and only remains in bootloader mode for like 10 seconds before it boots whatever application is in flash memory). It could be that whatever driver Windows decided to bind to the virtualized serial device just calls itself that. As long as it works (and it seemed to, from the output), I don't think it's a big deal. In any case, glad to hear you got it working.

If you (or anybody else) would like a Vial firmware for your F/AT keyboard that has a pandrew&Co. "universal" style (Pro Micro based) controller installed in it, I have built one. Just run the .bat file located in the flash-scripts folder, then kick your controller into bootloader mode. Hopefully this proves to be a more straightforward process for most people than wrestling with QMK Toolbox.

[idollar]

Any ideas on what is going on with the slow response to keypresses?

I am also having issues with VERY frequent transposed letters.

Hello,

My recommended solution = Leyden Jar

You can find the Leyden Jar GB call for interest here: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29398&p=521730#p521730

[Ellipse]

As a reply to some recent postings here, it is completely wrong to assume that double key presses and transposed keys are due to xwhatsit's controller and that another controller would fix the issue based on one person's experience. While nearly all these issues are fixed by the users themselves during setup, I have worked on several of these boards myself over the years and it has always been done with what is noted in the manual (working on the springs and ensuring there is no dust or debris inside the keyboard that could affect capacitive sensing).

I will report that one person recently noted an issue with transposed keys and the cause of the issue ended up being their use of Combos in the Vial firmware. Removing the combos fixed the transposed issue.

xwhatsit's controllers are extremely solid and reliable and have been in use since 2014. I have mailed out over 5,000 keyboards with xwhatsit's controller since 2019, including hundreds of the new models in the past few months, and only a handful of folks have reported issues like double presses and transposed keys out of hundreds of keyboards. Others likely had to adjust springs to correct various issues like keys not clicking but followed the manual to fix it, so they did not need to report the issue. As always, when I mail out hundreds of boards quickly after a container shipment arrives, everyone is more likely to see reports of issues posted on the forums just because the shipment volume is far higher than normal. While I saw no issues with Rico's excellent Leyden Jar controller in my testing and hope to use it exclusively once xwhatsit stock is depleted, currently no one is using this in a New Model F since they are still being assembled and have not yet shipped, so no one can say that they are less likely to transpose keys in a statistically significant sample size.