F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

18 Nov 2015, 21:21

kuato wrote:Ellipse's next project could be making capacitive guts for the IBM SSK. Man, I would buy that in a second!
That one's already underway, thanks to Idollar. I have a 1987-vintage SSK just waiting for the capacitive plates.

http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=10744

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RoastPotatoes

18 Nov 2015, 21:39

Techno Trousers wrote:
kuato wrote:Ellipse's next project could be making capacitive guts for the IBM SSK. Man, I would buy that in a second!
That one's already underway, thanks to Idollar. I have a 1987-vintage SSK just waiting for the capacitive plates.

http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=10744
Wow I completely forgot about this. With the new kishes the FSSK and the wcass's new BS I am excited for the future.

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kuato

18 Nov 2015, 21:41

RoastPotatoes wrote:
Techno Trousers wrote:
kuato wrote:Ellipse's next project could be making capacitive guts for the IBM SSK. Man, I would buy that in a second!
That one's already underway, thanks to Idollar. I have a 1987-vintage SSK just waiting for the capacitive plates.

http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=10744
Wow I completely forgot about this. With the new kishes the FSSK and the wcass's new BS I am excited for the future.
Same here. Thank you Mr Trousers for linking this.

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Elrick

19 Nov 2015, 00:34

RoastPotatoes wrote: With the new kishes the FSSK and the wcass's new BS I am excited for the future.
Yeah I'm feeling this too.

That there is now a REAL future for this American Switch and maybe this could be the beginning of something far greater as time rolls on.

Ultimate dream would be that the BS becomes as popular as the Cherry Switch........

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Elrick

19 Nov 2015, 00:37

courtesi wrote: What baffles me is how much Ellipse has accomplished; yet we still don't have an ETA on a Unicomp SSK?
Suspect when this GB is over it may encourage Unicomp to finally release their SSK model due to it's popularity here on these forums.

Market a rare like keyboard, never made before and you'll see customers rushing in easily.

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Muirium
µ

19 Nov 2015, 02:57

I wouldn't count on that. Unicomp's in a bad way.

If any manufacturer profits from a buckling spring surge, it may well be a clone in China. Although the more I think about that, the more I appreciate Unicomp's killer strategy. By failing at their own thing, they're doing the opposite of attracting Chinese competition. They're poisoning the whole buckling spring! This switch could be going the way of the dodo, like so many others before the mech revival of recent years.

courtesi

19 Nov 2015, 04:59

Those links - particularly the second one - are depressing. :(

For what it's worth - after I purchased my last Unicomp 103 I received a survey in email and answered various questions. One of the suggestions I gave them was to hold a BBQ at the factory like the now defunct Saturn car company. I'd love to meet the people who built my keyboard!

That being said, the M2 is my favorite mechanical keyboard - bar none - and I've got a couple more lined up to purchase as backups.

Once I have those I want to buy at least one more Unicomp Ultra Classic 103 to put in storage. Yes, they have some quality issues but I prefer typing on it to a lot of older M's because of the more compact design.

I'll type on M2's until they can no longer be serviced. MX/Alps... can go take a hike. :evilgeek:

andrewjoy

19 Nov 2015, 10:28

courtesi wrote: Those links - particularly the second one - are depressing. :(

For what it's worth - after I purchased my last Unicomp 103 I received a survey in email and answered various questions. One of the suggestions I gave them was to hold a BBQ at the factory like the now defunct Saturn car company. I'd love to meet the people who built my keyboard!

That being said, the M2 is my favorite mechanical keyboard - bar none - and I've got a couple more lined up to purchase as backups.

Once I have those I want to buy at least one more Unicomp Ultra Classic 103 to put in storage. Yes, they have some quality issues but I prefer typing on it to a lot of older M's because of the more compact design.

I'll type on M2's until they can no longer be serviced. MX/Alps... can go take a hike. :evilgeek:

Go for the ultimate compact M , the SSK.

courtesi

20 Nov 2015, 15:50

andrewjoy wrote: Go for the ultimate compact M , the SSK.
If they made a M2 SSK I would be interested in that.

With a new M/F SSK rolled out I would just put it in storage for a time when resale values were high.

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bhtooefr

20 Nov 2015, 17:05

Honestly, I think the M2 should be brought back into production, possibly with some cost optimizations (make it snap together instead of screw together, possibly, although there's durability concerns there). It's a buckling spring, with real buckling spring feel, that's built like a cheap rubber dome. Even with the lack of NKRO, I think it'd make a great entry-level mechanical keyboard. Then, step up to a Model F if you want better feel, more flexibility, and NKRO. (In this idea, I wouldn't continue production of regular Model Ms, as they'd take economies of scale away from the M2 and F. M2 for low-cost ($50-75), F variants for premium (think $150-350).)

Really, if Unicomp would just get on the Elliptical, they could get in shape.

Image

However, regarding an M2 SSK, it's likely not a practical design - the entire M2 design is based around having the controller in the area above the numpad.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

20 Nov 2015, 19:34

Interesting to hear from someone who loves the M2. I tried it and never liked it much myself. I suspect most people would agree with my ranking of IBM buckling spring boards as Model F > Model M > Model M2. I don't think it's a coincidence that's also the order of decreasing cost of materials and construction. It was so bad for the M2 that they all eventually need capacitor replacement on the controller. That would have been unthinkable for IBM in its computer manufacturing heyday.

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bhtooefr

23 Nov 2015, 02:10

However, other than that particular problem (and I have an M2 with bad caps, that came with a IBM PS/1 that I bought - I need to crack it open and replace the caps), they're pretty reliable, tbh. They don't feel quite as nice as a good M, no, but they're close, and if there's new Model Fs being produced...

Ellipse

23 Nov 2015, 02:30

What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?

Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?

(As a note I will not be modding the F62/F77 keyboards - just looking for suggestions for those who want to mod theirs to make it quieter)
Last edited by Ellipse on 23 Nov 2015, 04:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Muirium
µ

23 Nov 2015, 02:33

Floss is the only way I've ever heard of. Have you got an especially loud prototype on your hands?

Those who prefer a quieter keyboard aren't really in the right place for a Model F!

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chzel

23 Nov 2015, 02:35

Not much you can do to silence them...Floss mod AFAIK mainly reduces the ping of the spring after actuation.
Lexmark did a series where they greased the springs to quiet them down, but I don't know if it really works...
Wiki wrote:A later initiative to provide a quieter Model M, without conceding to rubber domes, was the Soft Touch Keyboard made by Lexmark for IBM from 1995–96, whose buckling springs were greased to reduce their volume.

Ellipse

23 Nov 2015, 03:28

Nope I don't have the prototypes yet - still waiting on them - it could be another week or two before they arrive from China.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

23 Nov 2015, 04:08

Ellipse wrote: What are the best methods for reducing the noise in the Model F's, for those who prefer a quieter keyboard? I know there is a dental floss mod but are there any other working options?

Do different types or thicknesses of inner foam make a difference in the noise? Any particular examples/successes you can share?
I am a total believer in the dental floss mod (on the F - on the M it does much less to the sound and may even hurt the feel). What it takes away is the high ringing overtones, which are the annoying ones.

My foam preference is the 1/16" aka 1.5mm "art foam" which is fairly firm and dense as those things go.

I line the cases with waffled rubber drawer liner and/or felt fabric. I lay down sheets of it where I can, and pack the rest of the space if I want more. Rather than just poking it in a wad, I make a plug for each individual cavity or space by rolling up a strip into a cylinder. You can easily adjust both length and height that way.

Last, I always use a mat under the keyboard on the desk surface.

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Elrick

23 Nov 2015, 04:24

Ellipse wrote: Nope I don't have the prototypes yet - still waiting on them - it could be another week or two before they arrive from China.
Can't wait to finally see them ;) .

Please provide FULL on pics showing their beauty to everyone out there.

idollar
i$

23 Nov 2015, 15:04

Techno Trousers wrote:
kuato wrote:Ellipse's next project could be making capacitive guts for the IBM SSK. Man, I would buy that in a second!
That one's already underway, thanks to Idollar. I have a 1987-vintage SSK just waiting for the capacitive plates.

http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=10744
I am taking Friday off. It may be an idea to push this project a little bit :-)

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Muirium
µ

23 Nov 2015, 15:05

Go on!

Image

Ellipse

25 Nov 2015, 03:06

Yep Elrick I will take some high res photos as soon as the prototypes arrive.

Ellipse

26 Nov 2015, 02:27

Some more sad news for us collectors - one of my recycler contacts seems to have had a whole lot of original 4704 equipment in one of their warehouses and discarded everything - amazingly this was just a couple months after I offered to buy it all from them.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

26 Nov 2015, 05:25

Wow, what a terrible thing to have done. They just scrapped it all?

andrewjoy

26 Nov 2015, 11:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZn1Vzkd7LE

That is this thread in a nutshell

Ellipse

28 Nov 2015, 03:45

Yep all gone.

MECHGAMER

28 Nov 2015, 04:44

Ellipse wrote: Some more sad news for us collectors - one of my recycler contacts seems to have had a whole lot of original 4704 equipment in one of their warehouses and discarded everything - amazingly this was just a couple months after I offered to buy it all from them.
That's unfortunate, do they have anything else worth buying?

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Muirium
µ

28 Nov 2015, 11:52

A nice large pallet or two of industrial grade regret.

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bhtooefr

28 Nov 2015, 13:19

It's financial-grade regret, not industrial-grade! I mean, it's 4704s, after all...

Ellipse

29 Nov 2015, 19:56

Still no new updates - the factory is taking longer than expected to wrap up the prototypes: final case powdercoating, inner foam, outer foam, box, and assembly are still on their to do list.

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romevi

29 Nov 2015, 20:06

Ellipse wrote:Still no new updates - the factory is taking longer than expected to wrap up the prototypes: final case powdercoating, inner foam, outer foam, box, and assembly are still on their to do list.
What's ETA looking like for you to receive the final proto?

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