F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

shreebles yep I can ship your xwhatsit controllers early if you'd like. It's $6 extra to Germany to cover the extra shipment. The other items will all ship together when production and assembly finishes. You can place an extra order of 6 units of "other customizations in $1 increments" to cover shipping.

The factory will be assembling and testing all of the flippers and springs by hand so it may take more time than expected.

Yes on the HHKB right shift - 1.75U first and 1U on the right side of the right shift. You can see an example of the right shift on the modelfkeyobards.com home page.

Yep you can - just pick "International layout" for the keys and "HHKB split right shift" for the layout.

[mana]

Okay, so, sorry to play devil's advocate here, but if the factory is testing all the flippers and springs by hand, is there a need for you to then also test all the flippers and springs by hand and ship them from New York?

Shipping from China to Australia (or almost anywhere really) is a whole lot cheaper is all.

[Ellipse]

Yes sorry mana. I will be testing each keyboard personally. I am not relying only on quality control in China for this project.

[shreebles]

I'd love to Ellipse, but the Paypal option seems missing? Can we only pay with credit card now?

Also, I don't see the option to select "international" key layout on the F62/F77 pages.

[Ellipse]

Correct, no more paypal. International is in the drop down menu for the keys. You can pay by bank debit card too.

[shreebles]

Sorry, either I'm dumb, or it's just not there.

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[Tuntematon]

Sorry, either I'm dumb, or it's just not there.

International option disappears if you first select ANSI Enter from the layout options.

[shreebles]

Thanks for the heads-up.

Close, but actually it appears when I select anything other than ANSI Enter. i.e. ISO or Split right shift.

So, basically, I could get a complete F62 with dye-sublimation printed one-piece keycaps in ISO-DE and split right shift?
But the right shift would be stepped?

[Ellipse]

shreebles I see the issue - by default it goes to ANSI Enter for the layout. You can change that first to HHKB and then the international option is available in the first drop down menu for the keys - sorry this is not too logical

If I can get the keys made, I am having a special one-piece non-stepped short shift/non-stepped caps lock key made so that those two keys will not be stepped.

As an update I'm still looking for someone to help us with the ultra compact xwhatsit controller. It is still not where it needs to be and I believe there needs to be some adjustment with capacitor and/or resistor values to account for smaller trace lengths - something that is well beyond my understanding - please PM me if you can take a look. Here is the thread on the troubleshooting steps we've gone through so far: workshop-f7/a-smaller-xwhatsit-t13479-60.html#p307605

[LewisR]

I'm definitely interested in this, but I'm going to wait until I get an XT Model F delivered so that I can see if I can deal with the pinging. I'd rather not do any modifications to reduce ping because I ideally want the purity of the original design, but maybe it's not that big of a deal to floss mod it. I'm looking forward to trying on the XT. If I like it, then I may have to get funds allocated for the F77. It's definitely my style!

[Vizir]

I'm going to wait for the prototypes of the compact versions before deciding. Plus the controller still needs work. The models look great, but I'd prefer to see the real thing.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[andrewjoy]

i am guessing unix layout is still a thing ?

[Ellipse]

Yep Unix layout is an option - just add a note when adding the keyboard to your cart that you want a unix style layout.

[Phenix]

What is UNIX layout?

[shreebles]

All the information you are looking for, always, is there, on the internet, at Deskthority even

wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_Unix_layout

[Phenix]

I definitly should check the wiki more often .

Thanks shreebles!

[darkspider]

I have been absent from this topic. When will the items be shipped according to the current schedules?
In my memory, I once heard it will be about August and it isn't changed for now?

[Ellipse]

The factory is taking a lot longer than expected for pre-production for some of the parts.

The barrels and flippers are all finished and the case molds are expected to go into production next week.

[darkspider]

Thank you for the information.

[Ellipse]

An update on the case molds - unfortunately production of the case molds was delayed and is expected to start this week. It was supposed to start a few weeks ago. I am now expecting the keyboards to ship from China in July. The factory stated that the molds would have been done earlier this month.

[Ellipse]

Still looking for some help on getting the compact xwhatsit up and running for this project - any help would be appreciated!

How much time do you think should be allowed for people to order after the early bird keyboards ship out to everyone?

[lot_lizard]

How much time do you think should be allowed for people to order after the early bird keyboards ship out to everyone?

1 month was mentioned earlier (not sure the starting point of the timer), but I would think 1+ month(s) after the final early bird order had shipped makes sense (in the hands of everyone that could have content for several weeks).

More important to me would be the compact cases. I think some amount of time after seeing a physical prototype of each (62/77) case would be ideal. The renders are great, but would like to see something "in real life"

[Ellipse]

Yes lot_lizard I agree at least one month would be a good idea.

Yes I was hoping to have a prototype of the compact cases but I'd like to allow at least one month after the compact case prototypes are tested and photographed for the order window (I hope to ship the small case prototypes by DHL Express air mail so they get here in a month or so).

[Ellipse]

While I wait on the factory to get back to me (I've been going back and forth over details), I thought I'd post my responses to some of the interview questions from the Vice Motherboard article on mechanical keyboards and gaming. Sorry it's tl:dr for most! The article was not about this project but the project was mentioned: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/mechan ... teelseries

Please share your own thoughts on these questions too - I'd be interested in other perspectives:

Regarding why I think mechanical keyboards are becoming increasingly popular, I think there are a number of factors. One is definitely the expansion of the number of computer and gaming enthusiasts and the gaming and mechanical keyboard communities that have flourished in recent years (including reddit.com/MechanicalKeyboards, Geekhack, and Deskthority). Another related factor is the massive growth of interest in technology in general, and not just by a subset of the population. Many years ago it was not as common in my experience to be knowledgeable with using computers and smart phones and they were not as much an essential part of most people's lives, but nowadays almost everyone has a smart phone and/or tablet with them at all times and uses their devices constantly throughout every single day, and even young kids are better than their parents at the computer and are online and/or gaming daily. With this acceptance of technology into the mainstream of our culture I think it has opened the door for millions of people to want and to seek out the best of what technology has to offer in a given product category: the newest and best iPhone or Samsung Galaxy, a brand new flat screen large-format, high definition television, the best tablet, a state of the art (possibly custom-built) computer, a car with advanced computer integrations and safety features, a high-end home stereo/surround sound/sound bar setup, etc. Many of the mass-produced keyboards with Cherry MX switches have centered their branding and marketing on being "gaming keyboards" but I feel that mechanical keyboards serve a significantly wider market as well and are even more important for the comfort and productivity of those who use computers every day, especially those who do a lot of typing. I've spoken with many writers and programmers who love the Model F and other mechanical keyboards because their keyboard is one of the most important things they use every day and are willing to pay more for the best (many spend more hours typing on their keyboard than sleeping in their beds I'm sure!). Many consider the buckling spring the best switch for typing. This is one reason mechanical keyboards in general are gaining in popularity, but unfortunately, availability has been a real problem for new buckling spring keyboards. Keyboards with those other switches are often your only choice if you are looking for a 60% compact or tenkeyless board, since there those form factors with buckling spring switches either don't exist or are rare and can only be acquired second-hand.

The process and history of the project: I have been a collector of IBM buckling spring keyboards for years and was able to acquire a number of Model F keyboards through my network of IT recycler contacts, but no 62-key "Kishsaver" Model F keyboards. (A note on the naming conventions of this project: While the brand new Model F keyboards from this project can support any number of keys, I chose model names that reflect their original key counts; hence they were named F62 and F77.) To no avail I spent a while looking for more 62-key F62 Kishsavers and 77-key F77 keyboards. Given the high interest for Kishsavers and 77-key Model F keyboards and the non-existent supply, as well as my own interest in a Kishsaver, I looked into what it would cost to bring these great keyboards with metal cases back into production, working on the CAD files and discussing ideas with a number of professional engineers, PCB designers, product designers, and many others, some of whom contribute to the DT/GH/reddit forums. I was also inspired by the significant interest and discussions on the forums regarding bringing back the Model F buckling spring keyboard. This project is definitely not a one man show - I could not have done this project without the help of so many community members, especially xwhatsit for inventing a reliable capacitive controller replacement for Model F keyboards, as well as many others sharing their thoughts with me on the forums and over PM's and emails. I have learned a lot along the way about manufacturing, PCBs, materials, micrometer measurement, CAD (computer aided design), and about the specifications of Model F keyboards. This is a unique project in that it is the first one to bring back Model F buckling spring technology, which has been out of production for essentially 25+ years. I had to pay for all the tooling, CNC milling and molds - with no guarantees of success. Another forum member pointed out that the Cherry MX and other custom keyboard projects have lower production costs as the individual key mechanisms are pre-made, unlike Model F components. I have been working with my China contacts for about a year and a half on a number of projects so it was not difficult for me to work with them on this project. My past projects included mass production of xwhatsit's PCB's that allowed older IBM keyboards to be USB, have full NKRO, and function on today's computer equipment.

[LewisR]

While I wait on the factory to get back to me . . .

I'm really impressed with the passion and dedication to this. I've been building my own systems for over a decade but I just recently started exploring the variety of keyboard technology. Just like "gaming" mice, they enhance everything I do with a computer. I also like that, as a hobby, it's also something I can and do practically benefit from on a daily basis.

With the Model F in particular, I just like the build quality and serviceability, and addition to the overall usefulness of it. It's timeless and classic and not superfluous like many specialized gadgets. I appreciate quality and am thankful that someone with the enthusiasm and resources can forge a project like this.

[Ellipse]

An update from the factory - with CNC photos!

The zinc case molds are currently in their first stage of production - initial CNC milling. The factory rep kindly took some photos for us - for them it was probably a strange request!

The molds are far from completed and are expected to be ready in about 2-3 weeks from now.

Thanks LewisR! I agree with you on the gaming mice parallel too. It's only after you've used a nice mouse that you know you are missing something when you use someone else's computer with a "standard" mouse. I've used the same Logitech MX518 mouse for the past 10 years and it has served me well so far.

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[alh84001]

Exciting update as always.

Out of curiosity for how actually the whole development->manufacturing process looks, if molds for the production run are being made now, how were the cases for the prototypes made?

[Ellipse]

The case prototypes were made by directly CNC milling each case one at a time out of a block of aluminum. Given the long machine-hours required for each one, it was certainly not optimal. They had to machine away I think like 90% of each aluminum block.

[Elrick]

The case prototypes were made by directly CNC milling each case one at a time out of a block of aluminum. Given the long machine-hours required for each one, it was certainly not optimal. They had to machine away I think like 90% of each aluminum block.

Now I understand why there's a HUGE waiting time to get these done.

CNC milling simply takes a lot of time to complete, plus the actual further finishing of the cases by hand before even any paint is applied upon them.

Keep up the good work here Ellipse because we, who believe in your keyboards are happy to wait for them. Sometimes PERFECTION takes time to achieve.

[kekstee]

Beautiful project, hope it all works out well.

Regarding the ordering window after R1 shipments, I fear it will take about a month or more for them to arrive in Europe, with shipping and customs processing combined. If we want to order another after testing for two weeks or something like that we might require a two month window over here.