F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Ellipse

29 Jul 2020, 04:15

Sp33ls wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 01:12
Ellipse wrote:
27 Jul 2020, 20:10
The factory continues to work on dye sublimation and additional QC work on the second container shipment of the early bird round.
Could you briefly (high level) expand on their improvements are with the additional QC work? Is things like improving consistency with chassis quality, or?

Just genuinely interested in the journey. :)
Yes I explained this in an update a few pages back in the thread

Ellipse

30 Jul 2020, 19:31

Here's a great review on the ultra compact F77 keyboard from Level1Techs on YouTube. Very thorough and professional! I like how they explained everything clearly, introduced the xwhatsit configuration software, and showed how the stabilizer inserts work.
There were some issues with the key in the 16th column but they were later able to fix it.

Ellipse

30 Jul 2020, 22:40

I have created some QMK Model F layout files from pandrew's beta, based on the available layout options on the project web site - they are attached.

Would definitely appreciate a second look to make sure I didn't make any mistakes!
Attachments
QMK layouts draft.zip
(8.61 KiB) Downloaded 17 times

andrewjoy

31 Jul 2020, 09:48

Ellipse wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 19:31
Here's a great review on the ultra compact F77 keyboard from Level1Techs on YouTube. Very thorough and professional! I like how they explained everything clearly, introduced the xwhatsit configuration software, and showed how the stabilizer inserts work.
There were some issues with the key in the 16th column but they were later able to fix it.
Ha , i just came to the thread to post this.

I love Level1Techs style of reviews nice and relaxed, with loads of useful info not just how much RGB there is, i especially like the how does it work on linux sections and how the IOMMU layout is on motherboards, i mean who else but super nerds need to know that :D.

dad

01 Aug 2020, 10:52

Ellipse wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 19:31
Here's a great review on the ultra compact F77 keyboard from Level1Techs on YouTube.
I'd say Model M (I have one since 2006, made by Lexmark in 1995) stands nowhere near any Model F (own original IBM F AT since 01/2020) in terms of tactile feel, sound, quality, NKRO etc. When I return to my model M after being a bit used to F AT, it's so different: it's fine, but I no more enjoy it :-( So comparing model Ms to F77 like in this review is not very practical. Maybe I've not tried any older (made in 80s) model Ms and they are of better quality?

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darkcruix

01 Aug 2020, 15:18

Somewhat Off Topic: F62 and the hot summer sun:
Spoiler:
IMG_0846.jpeg
IMG_0846.jpeg (2.85 MiB) Viewed 1660 times

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wobbled

02 Aug 2020, 16:38


User avatar
Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

02 Aug 2020, 17:21

wobbled wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 16:38
Why is this 4 THOUSAND DOLLARS?
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... y-1392934/
Muh NIB

User avatar
wobbled

02 Aug 2020, 17:22

Redmaus wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 17:21
wobbled wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 16:38
Why is this 4 THOUSAND DOLLARS?
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... y-1392934/
Muh NIB
NIBs have sold for like $600 on ebay of all places, this is just the pure greed that's destroying this community.

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Bass

02 Aug 2020, 17:39

I am sure an extra zero was added by accident. Ellipse has priced far rarer things on his site for far less than that.

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wobbled

02 Aug 2020, 18:13

Bass wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 17:39
I am sure an extra zero was added by accident. Ellipse has priced far rarer things on his site for far less than that.
I do hope so.. he sold me industrial ssk's and f107s for very fair prices in the past

latemodel24

02 Aug 2020, 20:01

Does anybody have any photos of a f77 industrial grey with mopar ssk keycaps?

Ellipse

02 Aug 2020, 20:56

latemodel24 - it is on the "Industrial SSK blue keys" product page: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... blue-keys/

I posted a separate IC thread about spherical double shot caps here - looking for feedback on these keys: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24304

I provided feedback to the seller but have not yet heard back.

There was a good thread about making new spherical caps from a few years back. They look great on the old IBM beam spring keyboards.

Are there any other current makers of spherical double shot caps besides Signature Plastics?

User avatar
AlpsComeback

04 Aug 2020, 06:30

Ok so I've been using my Model F a ton, and the switches are unmatched for sure. The only thing is, I'm at a point where if the threshold is too low(<120-123), I get multiple keys registering on one keypress. When the threshold is too high (124-130<), I get chattering on the spacebar, as well as a few other keys. Is there a way to tweak the springs somehow, or should I just join the QMK beta?

Ellipse

04 Aug 2020, 06:40

New Model F Product Manual!

www.ModelFKeyboards.com/manual

This is an early draft of the product manual. I’d appreciate it if those reading through the manual can offer additional content and/or corrections if something is not clear. You can email me or post additional paragraphs and sentences! Please do not copy and paste content from anywhere else unless you receive permission and attribute the source.

It is aimed at helping owners of both the original keyboards as well as the reproductions.

It will help provide buckling spring owners (everyone from beginners to advanced users) with a central place to learn key re-seating, disassembly, spring replacement, changing the layout, etc.



AlpsComeback I suggest the alternative debounce 11 variation of the 0.9.2 firmware, but QMK may be better for your setup.

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AlpsComeback

04 Aug 2020, 07:09

Ok, I think I might just want to join the QMK beta, if possible.

Senescent

04 Aug 2020, 09:05

So I've been using my F77 for over a month now and I absolutely love it. It's my first buckling spring keyboard and I've really fallen for the typing feel. Recently I've been thinking about enhancing that feel with a solenoid. I've only recently gone down this rabbit hole and I've never installed anything like a solenoid before.

I've read the instructions provided in the manual and the xwhatsit's .pdf but I'm still a bit confused. I'm mainly not sure where to mount it inside of the case. I've got the full size F77 if that matters. Is there a step-by-step photo guide out there that shows what the solenoid actually looks like installed in this keyboard? Also, if I ordered the solenoid and solenoid driver that would be all I needed to get it installed, correct? And finally, would the solenoid by toggleable via a key binding?

Any help is greatly appreciated. There's so much to learn!

User avatar
darkcruix

04 Aug 2020, 11:57

Ellipse wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:40
New Model F Product Manual!
...
Read through the full document - VERY well written!
Apart from a few typos, I didn't find anything that requires much correction.
e.g.:
On 12: at the end there is a note "keymap.c" attached which requires a link to DT
On 13: "right after a your keyboard" might be changed to "right after your keyboard""

Ellipse

04 Aug 2020, 16:41

updated, thanks

Senescent you can install it anywhere in the empty keyboard case area near the controller. I hope to post installation photos when I can.

A few pages back on this thread there were some posts of a similar solenoid installed.

I expect the new solenoids to come with screws and a mounting L bracket that can attach to the hole in the bottom of the case but this is not yet finalized.

OxC0FFEE

04 Aug 2020, 17:34

Ellipse wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:40
New Model F Product Manual!

www.ModelFKeyboards.com/manual
Question: in step 9 it says "After you are on the beta QMK site"

I did not see reference to where, exactly, this site is. Maybe you could add a link?

kmnov2017

04 Aug 2020, 17:37

OxC0FFEE wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 17:34
Ellipse wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:40
New Model F Product Manual!

www.ModelFKeyboards.com/manual
Question: in step 9 it says "After you are on the beta QMK site"

I did not see reference to where, exactly, this site is. Maybe you could add a link?
The QMK beta site is not public yet. To test QMK beta, message user pandrew directly for now.

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Scarpia

04 Aug 2020, 23:23

I have now used my F77 for a month and I love it!

I was a little bit worried if I'd get used to it, as it's both taller and louder and the actuation force is higher than the Realforce 87u I was using as my previous daily driver. But after just a few days and a few layout tweaks to suit my habits, it felt as natural as any of my other 'heavy rotation' boards -- with the added bonus of the glorious model F sound and out-of-this-world keyfeel.

However, I share the home office with my fiancée and this week was the first time we were both working from home at the same time, and the sound of the F77 was too much for her. I had to swap it out for something quieter.

So I grabbed my old daily driver, the RealForce, which is nice and silent and..... :? :? :? realised I no longer like it :shock: :o :cry:

How did this happen? Topre was tied for my favourite switch in the world until three weeks ago!

Stunned, I tried it again, and... *mush*

Nonono, that can't be right.

*Mush*

OK, what if I..

*Mush-mush*

No, c'mon.. *Muuuuush*. *Mush*. *Mushmushmushmush*!!!!!???

WHAT THE MUSHY MUSHING PIECE OF SHIT? - ELLIPSE, WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE TO ME???


In the end, I grabbed my Endgame Brown Alps TKL instead, just to feel something again. It helped. The keyfeel of the browns is - still - damn good, and they're quiet enough for the fiancée. But holy hell man, the new model F is true Endgame.

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AlpsComeback

05 Aug 2020, 01:45

Ok I got the QMK beta on my Model F77 now, and it's working flawlessly! The chattering issues I had before are now gone!

One more question: I'm not sure I want a solenoid, but I would be interested in getting a beeper, like the ones that were in the original Model F62/77/107s. Does anyone know of any available?

Ellipse

05 Aug 2020, 04:48

Great AlpsComeback!

I wonder why there are so many issues with the xwhatsit firmware in recent months. The xwhatsit was running for years with no known issues after the alternative debounce filter update by forum member joc. Maybe I am configuring things wrong?

Here's a post on buzzers/beepers:
viewtopic.php?p=463031#p463031

rgleas

05 Aug 2020, 06:24

Scarpia wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 23:23
I have now used my F77 for a month and I love it!

I was a little bit worried if I'd get used to it, as it's both taller and louder and the actuation force is higher than the Realforce 87u I was using as my previous daily driver. But after just a few days and a few layout tweaks to suit my habits, it felt as natural as any of my other 'heavy rotation' boards -- with the added bonus of the glorious model F sound and out-of-this-world keyfeel.

However, I share the home office with my fiancée and this week was the first time we were both working from home at the same time, and the sound of the F77 was too much for her. I had to swap it out for something quieter.

So I grabbed my old daily driver, the RealForce, which is nice and silent and..... :? :? :? realised I no longer like it :shock: :o :cry:

How did this happen? Topre was tied for my favourite switch in the world until three weeks ago!

Stunned, I tried it again, and... *mush*

Nonono, that can't be right.

*Mush*

OK, what if I..

*Mush-mush*

No, c'mon.. *Muuuuush*. *Mush*. *Mushmushmushmush*!!!!!???

WHAT THE MUSHY MUSHING PIECE OF SHIT? - ELLIPSE, WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE TO ME???


In the end, I grabbed my Endgame Brown Alps TKL instead, just to feel something again. It helped. The keyfeel of the browns is - still - damn good, and they're quiet enough for the fiancée. But holy hell man, the new model F is true Endgame.
Ufff....yes, it's truly endgame and truly, very loud. :P

kmnov2017

05 Aug 2020, 11:32

AlpsComeback wrote:
05 Aug 2020, 01:45
Ok I got the QMK beta on my Model F77 now, and it's working flawlessly! The chattering issues I had before are now gone!

One more question: I'm not sure I want a solenoid, but I would be interested in getting a beeper, like the ones that were in the original Model F62/77/107s. Does anyone know of any available?
You want to look for a low powered mini speaker rated around 0.5 W (or lower) and maybe 8Ohm.

PRIPARA_PLAYER

05 Aug 2020, 13:31

Ellipse, I remember you previously mentioning that you had found some alloys that produced quieter springs that you were planning to make available in the future. Do you think that these, maybe combined with a floss mod, would make the keyboard quiet enough for teleconferencing or for an office environment?

Ellipse

05 Aug 2020, 16:41

For quieter mods, please see the new manual section on mods, available on the project web site. The Model F still produces a click sound no matter what so I would not call it a silent keyboard even with mods.

BucklingSprings

06 Aug 2020, 01:03

Scarpia wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 23:23
I have now used my F77 for a month and I love it!

...
WHAT THE MUSHY MUSHING PIECE OF SHIT? - ELLIPSE, WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE TO ME???
...
I can fully appreciate that. Both my Unicomp Model M and my Matias are good keyboards. But I can't stand
them anymore. The F-77 feels soooo much better to me - even with these scratche Unicomp keys.

I am using my Matias as a USB hub and my Model M works as a paper weight now ;)

User avatar
Hypersphere

07 Aug 2020, 00:55

@Scarpia: Sorry that the new Model F keyboard has ruined Topre for you. My own experience in going back and forth between Topre (HHKB Pro Hybrid Type-S) and my F62 has been different. After using my F62 continuously for many days, today I had a confernce call during which I needed to type notes, so I switched over to my HHKB. It was fine. I still enjoy the Topre sound and feel, but I appreciate the sound and feel of my F62 just as much. For me, both the HHKB and the F62 are great keyboards; they are just very different manifestations of keyboard excellence. Likewise, I still appreciate typing on a top-grade Alps board, such as a Northgate Omnikey 101 or Leading Edge DC-3014. However, lest I forgot how good life has been to enable me to own such marvelous instruments, all I have to do is to type for a few seconds on a Cherry mx board! Alas, Model-F, Topre, and some varieties of Alps have even ruined the venerable Model-M for me!

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