F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

AlexB555

21 Mar 2023, 14:12

sedevidi wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 11:57
Ellipse wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 04:19
The forum member behind the new Quebec CSA has just submitted a new key set, option, French AFNOR (BÉPO), and has comments below. I have sent the design to the factory, to be included in an air shipment going out this month or next month. I am ordering a few extra sets in case anyone is interested. The gray shading indicates that the keys will be pebble color while the rest will be pearl.
The µ on the G key is turned to the left. Normal?
How the author proposes to solve the Esc vs. $ # - ? This one seems tricky in this layout...
1) Yeah, it's a purpose.
2) The HHKB extra keyset (green frame) includes an additional 1u Caps Lock. The ADM-3a mod works great to me.

You can remap :

- tab → esc
- caps lock → ctrl
- ctrl → tab
- menu (right between altgr and ctrl-right) → caps lock.

If your keyboard has the split backspace you can also remap this key (#$-) just left from backspace (1u).

If you don't have the HHKB you can remap esc directly between AltGr and Ctrl-Right. I saw an old Apple keyboard from the early 90s designed in this way.

depletedvespene : An extra Esc (1.75u) is also available in my previous layout (Quebec CSA) but you need another caps lock (1u).

Also, I saw a little mistake in my template, the ß should be red because it's a "modifier" key. ߤeµ∞ provide access to a sub-layout (ex: ∞ provide access to the APL symbols). If you see another mistake tell me.

Yeah, two AFNOR exist now on Windows, BÉPO and the New AZERTY. That's why I named my layout France AFNOR (BÉPO).
Last edited by AlexB555 on 21 Mar 2023, 14:39, edited 1 time in total.

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depletedvespene

21 Mar 2023, 14:39

AlexB555 wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 14:12
sedevidi wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 11:57
Ellipse wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 04:19
The forum member behind the new Quebec CSA has just submitted a new key set, option, French AFNOR (BÉPO), and has comments below. I have sent the design to the factory, to be included in an air shipment going out this month or next month. I am ordering a few extra sets in case anyone is interested. The gray shading indicates that the keys will be pebble color while the rest will be pearl.
The µ on the G key is turned to the left. Normal?
How the author proposes to solve the Esc vs. $ # - ? This one seems tricky in this layout...
1) Yeah, it's a purpose.
2) The HHKB extra keyset (green frame) includes an additional 1u Caps Lock. The ADM-3a mod works great to me.

You can remap :

- tab → esc
- caps lock → ctrl
- ctrl → tab
- menu (right between altgr and ctrl-right) → caps lock.

If your keyboard has the split backspace you can also remap this key (#$-) just left from backspace (1u).

If you don't have the HHKB you can remap esc directly between AltGr and Ctrl-Right. I saw an old Apple keyboard from the early 90s designed in this way.

An extra Esc (1.75u) is also available in my previous layout (Quebec CSA) but you need another caps lock (1u).
To each his/her/its/their own. In my particular case, I tried several displacements of Esc elsewhere. Moving it to where Tab did not work because it clashed too much with my muscle memory. Moving it to the Menu key (or the "Fn" key in a right-side split right Shift key) felt unnatural and could not get accustomed to it. On my battleship keyboards, it remained on EF2, but on all the other ones it neded a place, so...

I last tested moving Esc to Caps Lock last, and, to my surprise, it turned out great! So that's where it now resides. The 1.75U R2 key being stepped in most of my keyboards definitely helps.


AlexB555 wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 14:12
Also, I saw a little mistake in my template, the ß should be red because it's a "modifier" key. ߤeµ∞ provide access to a sub-layout (ex: ∞ provide access to the APL symbols). If you see another mistake tell me.

Yeah, two AFNOR exist now on Windows, BÉPO and the New AZERTY. That's why I named my layout France AFNOR (BÉPO).
I'll check the template out in detail later and report on my findings, too.

Ellipse

21 Mar 2023, 18:26

Confirmed I have 1.75U Esc keys as a special request item orderable through the Extra Keys page.

Confirmed this is a separate layout from the standard French layout that is still available and in stock.

Here are two nice setups posted over on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comme ... _thinkpad/
Image

https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations ... _with_the/
Image

AlexB555

22 Mar 2023, 19:00

Confirmed this is a separate layout from the standard French layout that is still available and in stock.
In fact, Microsoft supports 3 "French" keyboards (from France) since November 2022 :

- "Legacy" French is the default layout. This is your "French" keyboard layout. It's the traditional AZERTY keyboard used in France for many decades and the most common by far.
- Standard (AFNOR) French is also AZERTY but it's an improvement from the old French layout. This layout is not supported actually in your project.
- BÉPO v1.1 is a second Standard French (AFNOR). This layout has been created from the scratch, using an algorithm. This layout is also primary ISO but it seems ANSI compatible (the " / " is twice drawn and the ê can be replaced by a dead key ^).

I created a new topic here (in French) for the BÉPO community: http://forum.bepo.fr/viewtopic.php?id=2047

Ellipse

23 Mar 2023, 19:16

Here is a video describing the Quebec CSA key set, along with a typing test on an F77. Not sure if this was posted earlier.

Ellipse

01 Apr 2023, 05:38

The next Brand New Model F Keyboards project launches today, March 31st!

Now available to order: F104, FSSK, F122, F15, F50, and Split Ortholinear Ergonomic
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Click here to customize your Brand New Model F: http://modelfkeyboards.com/store
The layouts and cases of these regular/full size Model F boards were modeled after the later-production Model M keyboards and their more standardized/modernized layouts, but with the same Model F internal components and XT-quality dye sublimated keycaps as with the original F62/F77 project. A number of folks have been asking me for a full size board and other board types so here they are!

Some models are offered in both Model M style and ultra compact style cases. All cases are metal, even though they were designed to match the IBM Model M case designs of old.

Click on the “shop” link above to view more photos and details about each keyboard model and the available customization options.

Rather than wait for orders before starting production, I decided to go ahead and purchase many of these boards ahead of receiving orders. Production has finished for many of these boards and they are in stock and should start shipping in the later part of April or May. As always the in stock keyboards from this new project will not ship until all of the in stock Round 1 beam spring boards finish shipping. So far, 44 out of 80 Round 1 boards have shipped.

Today we have 8 new models!

4 currently in stock: Ultra Compact F104, Ultra Compact FSSK, F15 Split Ergonomic, F50 macro pad

4 currently in production: The 3 metal case classic Model M style F104, FSSK, and F122 keyboards and also the Split Ortholinear Ergonomic model

I was not sure how many of the ultra compact boards would be in demand, so for the in stock units I ordered extremely limited quantities of each: only 25 F50, 50 each of the two types of ergonomic boards: (the F15 style which is based on the very rare IBM M15 keyboard, and the split ortholinear style based on the Ergodox Cherry MX boards), and 200 each of the compact F104 and FSSK. The classic M Style case offerings (Classic F122, F104, and FSSK) are not limited at this time and will have a much larger first production run that is currently in progress. The Buckling Spring Ortholinear-style boards arrived but had an issue with the top inner assembly so they will ship later.

The classic M Style case keyboards (F122/F104/FSSK) support internal mounting of the solenoid driver and solenoid while the other ultra compact anodized case models do not (same as with the F77/F62).

No reservations needed for F104 and FSSK, neither for the compact nor classic case models. Anyone can order today.

There is a reservation process for the split ergonomic and F50 boards. Check out the details on the product pages, and then when ready click here to reserve your keyboard. You only need to reserve the split and F50 boards. You do not need to fill out this form for all other keyboards - you can order them straight away.

Why didn’t I start the new Model F project with a full size or Model M style board? What took so long with the original Brand New Model F Keyboards project? What is the most interesting part of the manufacturing process? Check out my Google NYC Tech Talk video embedded below for details behind this and other aspects of the project’s journey.

Not to worry, you can still order the classic case style and ultracompact case style F77 and F62 keyboards for the time being. I still have many in stock of each variation, but these final round keyboards will be on a “while supplies last” basis until they are all gone. More than 4,000 Brand New Model F F62 and F77 keyboards have shipped in recent years.

Here is a review article on the Brand New Ultra Compact F77 keyboard over at Cult of Mac

https://www.cultofmac.com/801538/model- ... rd-review/

Here’s a nice in-depth article on mechanical keyboards initially featured on the home page of The New Yorker – the Brand New Model F project is mentioned

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-o ... -tinkerers

Here’s a 3 1/2 minute video introducing the Model F reproduction project and the new Model F keyboard models:
YouTube video: typing test and teardown for the new keyboard models launched today!
Now posted on YouTube: my Google NYC Tech Talk on Bringing Back the Model F Keyboard

It was a great honor to be invited to speak at Google offices last year on the journey to bring the IBM Model F keyboard back into production. Once again a big thanks to Tony at Google for setting everything up and for obtaining permission from Google for me to share this video publicly. A big thanks to the Googlers for keeping the announcement of new Model F models under wrap for so long, until it was ready to launch! The folks at this meetup were the first to try the new Model F and beam spring models; this was also my first meetup in a long time which was nice.
Here are some photos of the new Model F keyboard models available (not pictured below: Classic Style FSSK and F122). Most are available in various colors. All have powdercoated/painted aluminum or anodized aluminum cases.
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Last edited by Ellipse on 03 Apr 2023, 05:23, edited 1 time in total.

Ellipse

01 Apr 2023, 05:40

Please see today's blog update post for a summary of the various goings-on with the project in recent months:
https://modelfkeyboards.com/blog

Photos of the new die cast injection molds for the new Model M style cases

The below photos show the 3 new M Style aluminum die cast case tops, unpainted, as well as the mold for the F122 case top. The bottom cases are made by CNC milling and bending, as a mold was not needed.

You will notice from the photos below (and more clearly in the photos on each of the new M Style case product pages) that the F122 retains the original IBM full size Model M case design and not the expanded case size of the original IBM F122 and M122, and the FSSK retains the original IBM full size Model M case design and not the reduced-size top bezel as found in the original IBM SSK (Space Saving Keyboard). The main reasons for this are to keep the designs consistent (the F122, F104, and FSSK all are the same exact length from front to back, even though the F122 has an extra row) and also to allow the solenoid driver and solenoid to fit comfortably inside all 3 of the keyboards.
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tyrantcyan

01 Apr 2023, 06:48

This is insane. Metal M-styled Model F? Just insane.

Are more split cases going to be made in the future?

Are there plans for a M-styled case for the ergodox?

And when does the dutch auction end?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

01 Apr 2023, 12:06

Ellipse wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 05:40
and the FSSK retains the original IBM full size Model M case design and not the reduced-size top bezel as found in the original IBM SSK (Space Saving Keyboard). The main reasons for this are to keep the designs consistent (the F122, F104, and FSSK all are the same exact length from front to back, even though the F122 has an extra row) and also to allow the solenoid driver and solenoid to fit comfortably inside all 3 of the keyboards.
Ah, not as familiar then as it first appears. Is the SSK case compatible with OG SSK innards then? Or indeed FSSKs as we already know them? Looks a boss case. Even I'd be tempted by a metal shell like this, and could well spring for an industrial FSSK-style keyset if I did. But not if it doesn't fit. :P

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Scarpia

01 Apr 2023, 13:12

Whoa! RIP my wallet……

I took the liberty to create some logo ideas using the decidedly non-1980s technology of Midjourney v5 text-to-image generation:

Number 1:
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Number 3:
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Number 4:
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Number 5:
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Number 6:
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Number 7:
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Number 8:
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Scarpia

01 Apr 2023, 13:28

I promise I’ll stop soon, but this is just too much fun:

Number 9:
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Number 10:
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Number 11:
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Number 12:
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Last edited by Scarpia on 01 Apr 2023, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Muirium
µ

01 Apr 2023, 13:32

This one's good. The layout should better match the actual keyboards, however.

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Scarpia

01 Apr 2023, 13:40

Personally I think there’s at least three or four decent ideas in there, obviously they’d need another pass by a human with vector design skills, but I’d love if these keyboards could get a new logo that isn’t just the buckling spring patent drawing, which to me always looked overly detailed and not visually striking enough for a logotype, not to mention that it’s disturbingly phallic at first glansglance.

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thefarside

01 Apr 2023, 14:20

I sure hope this isn’t an April fools joke Joe! Imagine my surprise when I wake up this morning, read this email, then see it’s April 1. I’m totally ordering some of these!

Also, on the F104 Model M case I noticed the bottom left side doesn’t look flush and the same as the right side (pic below). Kind of looks like it’s rising. Is everything good on the case?
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shine

01 Apr 2023, 16:05

Tell me this is April fools please

Zcool31

01 Apr 2023, 16:15

I was also amazed, then I checked the date.

kmnov2017

01 Apr 2023, 18:51

Zcool31 wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 16:15
I was also amazed, then I checked the date.
You do realize there's a video of all the new models that Ellipse has posted ...

kmnov2017

01 Apr 2023, 18:51

Still no F107!

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engr

01 Apr 2023, 20:09

thefarside wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 14:20
Also, on the F104 Model M case I noticed the bottom left side doesn’t look flush and the same as the right side (pic below). Kind of looks like it’s rising. Is everything good on the case?
The description on the web site says that the first photos show a 3D printed case but production units will be made of diecast aluminum.

I want to be mad at Joe for telling us there won't be a F104/122 for years... but I can't :mrgreen:

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webwit
Wild Duck

01 Apr 2023, 22:09

Lame. No F-DataHand.

squizzler

01 Apr 2023, 22:23

I'm fascinated by the appearance of an Ergodox, but to me its too much keyboard. If there is a demand for further staggered column formats perhaps the Atreus may be considered?

I use a layout that puts the letter "E" on a thumb key (RSTHD), similar to Maltron. A benefit of Atreus is all the keys are the same size so there is no need for a double sized "E". It is also a much smaller unit with only one section which should help with affordability.

AlexB555

02 Apr 2023, 00:06

Oh wow, we are really blessed today. Awesome. :)

Ellipse

02 Apr 2023, 03:40

The announcement was late on 3/31, not an April 1st joke. I did get a few folks asking me though! Some emails were delivered on April 1 though.

Today I brought some of the new F and Beam Spring models to the NYC keyboard meetup where I met some forum members in person, including darkcruix! It is always nice to put faces to the names and forum user names.

Are more split cases going to be made in the future? --> I don't think so, not sure.

Are there plans for a M-styled case for the ergodox? --> Nope, due to the high costs of making a new mold.

And when does the dutch auction end? --> Not sure, maybe one month is enough time to make sure everyone has had enough time to consider what they want? Seems like a good balance between that and delaying the shipments too much.

The new Model M style Model F cases are not compatible with any other models or projects. They accommodate the thicker inner assembly of a Model F versus a Model M and there are some changes, so they are not 100% drop in replacement reproductions of the Model M cases (folks can't upgrade their Model M keyboards to metal cases alas). I hope to post more photos later this month when the prototypes arrive.

Very interesting Scarpia! Rendering has improved so much from back in the day. Many look like photographed images! I'm hoping to be able to make a few logos but anyone can put in their own logo in the spot in the F122 case. The logos can also be affixed to the other cases in any position. So as not to require a logo as with the F122, the other cases all do not have a recessed spot for the logo so they can be used without logos.

thefarside - as noted on the project pages, the Classic F104 case is a 3d printed sample case. It was made before the molds were approved for the die cast aluminum cases (so I can hopefully catch mistakes before the mold is produced). I hope to post more photos later this month when the prototypes arrive.

kmnov2017 I think the F122 is the closest option to the F107 layout but with additional keys on the top and fewer keys in one of the blocks of keys, so I would recommend the F122 if you are hoping for a F107 style board. The F122 case is not going to be a 4704 however as that would have required another mold.

And here is another nice F77 customization posted over on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... m_keycaps/

sedevidi

02 Apr 2023, 11:41

I read that both split keyboards actually have a keyboard controller in each part, ie. you plug two independent keybards.
This probably means that pressing Fn on one half will not trigger the Fn layer on the other half.
Maybe it also means that pressing Shift on one will not trigger Shift on the other?
Is this really usable?

sedevidi

02 Apr 2023, 11:55

sedevidi wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 11:41
Maybe it also means that pressing Shift on one will not trigger Shift on the other?
Just tested: apparently, Shift, Ctrl, AltGr all work cross-keyboard.
Fn potential problem remains...

orAaron

02 Apr 2023, 16:57

engr wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 20:09
thefarside wrote:
01 Apr 2023, 14:20
I want to be mad at Joe for telling us there won't be a F104/122 for years... but I can't :mrgreen:
I got you bro, my wallet is pissed enough to cover the both of us! It is no coincidence he waited until they were ready to ship before announcing these full sized options. An announcement schedule similar to his other products would absolutely have eaten away at his other sales. I can’t be the only one who would have waited.

squizzler

02 Apr 2023, 17:27

sedevidi wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 11:41
I read that both split keyboards actually have a keyboard controller in each part, ie. you plug two independent keybards.
This probably means that pressing Fn on one half will not trigger the Fn layer on the other half.
Maybe it also means that pressing Shift on one will not trigger Shift on the other?
Is this really usable?
Whilst you are correct that there is a controller in both halves your speculation that the modifiers work on one half only is wrong.

A split keyboard built like a tank (two little tanks actually!) overcomes the disadvantage of my Minidox which is small and light enough the two halves can wander around the desk.

Not all ergonomics of this sort need to be actually split halves. Unitary designs such as the Maltron are large and baroque enough they should appeal to those who also favour the more ostentatious IBM "battleships", although of course that design is the opposites in build quality being as it is thin thermoplastic. The Atreus mentioned above is a unitary design also.

Admiral

03 Apr 2023, 01:37

Erm, Ellipse's YouTube videos aren't showing up and says the account was terminated. I just viewed them several hours ago too.

And glad to see news of modern layout Model F keyboards they look nice.

Arkku

03 Apr 2023, 02:01

I noticed that the latest QMK firmware won't compile anymore with support for these keyboards. I made the (minimum) necessary changes to get them to compile in my QMK fork at https://github.com/arkku/qmk_firmware. I didn't actually test whether it works (since I'm using my own AAKBD firmware), but if someone wants to continue the work from there, it might be a decent starting point.

Ellipse

03 Apr 2023, 04:22

Admiral I have reached out to YouTube support and am hoping that they reply ASAP.

Update: The project's YouTube channel seems to have been erroneously deleted. I sent a message to YouTube support. Some previously posted video links may not be working. I have mirrored some of the videos here for the time being: https://www.youtube.com/@Brand_New_Model_F_Keyboards

Regarding the Fn key on split keyboards, I am hoping the QMK and Via experts can see what workarounds are possible, if any.

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