F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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Muirium
µ

01 Nov 2022, 12:46

marcuso wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 11:39
Is it me that's subconsciously adapted to hitting the Enter key "better" or some mechanical bit that's now bedded in?
Maybe a bit of both? What did it feel like before it got better: binding or scratchy?

Naturally, I got my Kishy a little pre-owned, so can’t speak of the out of box experience. Mine needed a good clean (and its original controller pulled out). Plenty of mileage already on this beast, plus a fair bit more in many years now with me. It was already smooth as butter.

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thefarside

02 Nov 2022, 12:32

Ellipse wrote:
01 Nov 2022, 03:27
For those who have been using their new Model F keyboards for 1-2+ years at this point, I am curious about the operational maintenance needed after the first month or so as things were settling in. Keys, spring adjustment, etc. Please do share!

I know that on my original IBM F122, after a few years' usage the textured key tops showed signs of wear and one or two springs started to buzz, requiring re-seating or replacement. And an ultrasonic clean is needed every now and then for the keys - overdue for mine :)
I’ve been using mine regularly for almost two years with no issues. Not sure if it makes a difference but I floss modded my springs.

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Scarpia

02 Nov 2022, 19:03

I got my F77 in July 2020 so it’s been a little over two years; since I’m sharing an office I don’t always use my loudest keyboard but I’ve probably used it about a third of the time.

I was expecting to see some degradation or chipping of the paint, but so far at least it’s looking as good as new.

Keyfeel is unchanged as far as I can tell, and the keycaps / buttons aren’t even dirty enough to warrant a trip through the ultrasonic yet.

I did a floss mod a few weeks after it arrived and I don’t think I’ve had to reseat a single key since. At one point the space bar wire was conflicting with one of the bottom row alphas when bottoming out, but just slightly and it hasn’t bothered me since.

Firmware-wise I switched to pandrews build in late 2020 and it has worked so well that I never bothered to switch to any of the newer builds.

All in all, I’m a very happy camper.

ivor_h

03 Nov 2022, 21:02

Finally *almost* settled on a layout I'm happy with on my UK layout.
I fancied a little splash of colour variety on my keyboard so I've gone with some Unicomp coloured caps.
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I found my hand kept wanting to go up to the top to find delete for some reason so I've gone with a split backspace now which is working well.

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TNT

04 Nov 2022, 00:40

Sorry if this question did already come up, but does someone have a Via hex file for the layout above minus the split Backspace?

So basically "HHKB split shift everything else ISO".


Edit: I just realized you can change this in VIA directly through the Layout options there :oops:
Last edited by TNT on 07 Nov 2022, 14:09, edited 1 time in total.

Obin

04 Nov 2022, 03:43

ivor_h wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 21:02
Finally *almost* settled on a layout I'm happy with on my UK layout.
Interesting... and uncannily similar to my own layout. We seem to have come to some of the same conclusions.
IMG_20221104_032607.jpg
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I'm still a bit bothered by the differently shaded ISO-Enter. I still don't get why the pebble colour couldn't be matched with IBM and Unicomp's...

Ellipse

04 Nov 2022, 18:45

As a note the pebble color is a match to the original IBM XT key colors, which differ a little from those of later buckling spring keyboards.

I ordered the molds for the non-stepped ISO Enter, Code, and PC AT Big Enter keys so those key colors should match with the key sets.

Please keep the feedback coming, for those who have used their keyboards for over a year at this point!

Also, any feedback on the draft manual?

Ellipse

05 Nov 2022, 06:06

Major project updates:

The 4000th keyboard shipped this week! 4036 keyboards have shipped in total.

Backlog is done: I have completely caught up with the backlog! All outstanding orders comprising the backlog have shipped, not counting 27 orders on hold due to various reasons: 17 orders-partially paid, 3-waiting for them to reply, and 7-other reasons that prevent me from shipping the order).

All F62/F77 keyboards and accessories are in stock, with the exception of 1.75 stepped keys which will be sublimated this month (I ordered blank keys from Unicomp and mailed them to the factory doing the sublimation). This "all in stock" is a major change in the project, as opposed to the previous "made to order" nature of the project. I'm hoping that all current and future orders can ship in 1-2 weeks, and likely sooner, but don't hold me to this as anything could happen.

Over the coming week I hope to prepare a beam spring video / higher quality sound test and create the product pages and maybe take some additional photos, so please look out for an email if you signed the beam spring interest form posted earlier (and reposted in the past week or so). The in-stock beam spring keyboards will be reserved and quantity limited with priority to those who signed up the earliest. Those who signed up will also have the option to order the second round beam spring keyboard, whose design is now finalized into the modified 3101 style. Some time after, orders will open up to those who did not sign the interest form.

Recently I located a nice PBT double shot MX set with the key tops partially sunken, similar but not a match to the IBM originals. I believe these to be one of the closest matches out there. I hope to receive these beam spring key set samples later this month and then I will post photos and likely order them. The molds are already produced but the color scheme for the project has not been produced - they are custom making the key colors for this project. The PBT double shot key set options will be:
(1) all black color keys with white legends, or
(2) black modifier keys with white legends and all other keys will be white with black legends

While the factory does not have double shot molds for the international language keys, they do offer ISO Enter, short left shift, and a few dozen additional keys beyond the standard 104, which I expect to offer as well, so the tradeoff of using a modified ISO layout with some "incorrect" keys may be worth it to some international layout users to be able to use these new keys. (As a note, the factory whose double shot sample keys were pictured in the beam spring product photos has not been responsive so I have been looking at these other factories).

To keep things simple and to help cover the costs of these custom made keys which have a high minimum order quantity, the round 1 keyboard cost will include $10 (US) and $15 (international) for separate shipping of the round 1 key sets, whether you order a set or not. No more trying to collect separate payments and holding off on orders like years ago for early Model F orders - everything in stock will be shipping out to everyone without waiting for keys to arrive.

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DMA

05 Nov 2022, 19:55

> Backlog is done: I have completely caught up with the backlog!

Merry Christmas 2015! Hopefully all this pandemic, Ukraine war and global economic crisis caused by those will suddenly turn to be just a branch of time that never actually realized!

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Muirium
µ

05 Nov 2022, 20:33

Putin stole Crimea in 2014, beginning the standoff which eventually became this all out Operation Barbarossa of an invasion of his (albeit already far less successful than his hearthrob’s). Wind back further than that. :roll:

If I had a Time Machine, I’d kill arch prince Ferdinand at home instead. This global nightmare goes straight back to 1914. And arguably 1492. Or indeed the fall of Rome. Or its rise. Or the day Adam boned Mitochondrial Eve…

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Scarpia

07 Nov 2022, 09:23

Congratulations Ellipse!

Ellipse

10 Nov 2022, 23:14

I am hoping to make a short introductory video to the Model F keyboards project for the project web site.

Looking for some good-quality 10 to 20 second videos from the community: Over the coming days I'm hoping you can send over some good quality, well-lit 4k UHD or 1080p video clips and photos of yourself using the new Model F keyboards as you normally would any given day: programming, writing posts while on DT, professional writing, other work, etc. for me to consider for this video (not every video will be selected). Many cell phones can shoot good quality videos nowadays so separate video equipment would not be necessary. This is on a strictly volunteer basis, if you want to try to be famous and show off your work area and keyboard - the clips can also be humorous :)

Please send the original video files in full quality (not re-encoded) through Google Drive (preferred) or any other "free large file sharing" service you can find through online search, and email me the link to info at (the project web site URL). Please include your full name, the date, how the clip should be captioned (forum user name, full name, or first name and last initial) and your permission for me to use the clip.

Feel free to also share your video here with the community by posting on YouTube and embedding a link here.


Here's the draft script in case anyone's interested in sending feedback:

(typing sound) This is the sound of the busy 1980s office. It's the clicky sound of the Model F keyboard, the result of a decade of IBM research to develop what is still the world's greatest keyboard, built up to a standard and not down to a price point.

The problem? These went out of production in the 1980s. As a big fan of the Model F keyboard from an early age, I wanted everyone to once more be able to get an industrial-quality, exact reproduction of the 80s Model F design but with modern electronics that work on today's computers.

Thanks to the efforts of engineers and Model F fans around the world, you can now own a Brand New Model F Keyboard.

Here's what makes the Model F the best keyboard ever:

First is the typing experience. You're already on a keyboard for hours and hours a week (show programmers, writers, etc. using the Model F). Why not make typing fun and enjoyable? You don't realize how boring and uncomfortable typing on a regular keyboard is until you have spent a day with the Model F. Every keypress brings you both tactile and auditory feedback. You can feel the Model F spring buckle inside the pressed key and hear the satisfying click of the flipper against the capacitive circuit board underneath the keys. Many people report significant improvement in typing speed and accuracy after switching to the Model F.

And what about having full control of your Model F? Now you can. With dozens of languages and layouts to choose from and an open source, fully programmable USB controller with macros, function layers, and N-Key Rollover (show gui and different key layout photos) you can fine tune your Model F to be your perfect end game, daily driver keyboard.

And finally, there is the longevity factor – what else might you use with your computer every day for decades? With the finest materials going into each new Model F including an industrial metal case, steel inner plates and dye sublimated legends that resist wear, your keyboard may very well last for decades, just like the originals. For more than five years I have obsessively focused on making sure every detail of the Model F matches those of the originals, down to the paint texture and colors, the sound of the springs, and fraction-of-a-millimeter part tolerances.

Model F Labs has succeeded in producing and shipping over 2 million dollars’ worth of new Model F's to IBM's exacting specifications, at half the original cost, adjusted for inflation. Your new Model F keyboard will follow that tradition of the highest production standards, as I continue to test and do final quality control on every keyboard before it goes out. And you'll also get some future proofing as the controllers are all USB-C and can be replaced in the future.

You shouldn't have to set the DeLorean back to 1985 to buy a brand-new Model F. For a limited time, you can get one fresh off the factory production line. You'll be typing on your keyboard for thousands of hours over the years, so why not treat yourself to the Best Keyboard Ever and have as much fun and enjoyment as possible with every click? Please join the Brand New Model F Project today and help bring back the best keyboard ever!
Last edited by Ellipse on 11 Nov 2022, 01:48, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
wobbled

11 Nov 2022, 00:02

If you want professional quality videos, then perhaps offer to pay for them...?

kmnov2017

11 Nov 2022, 08:41

So round 4 is not the final round ?

Ellipse

12 Nov 2022, 20:03

In addition to my request above for some Model F video clips from 10-20 folks and feedback on the draft script for the video, below are some photos showing the new key and beam spring module molds currently being made at the factory, as well as some customer images I am posting with permission. One image shows a custom right side block, while the other shows the F77 with Industrial SSK 12 key set and the F1-F12 front printed keys. Glad to share both of these images as I have not seen too many photos of these customized layouts.

Also please do send in the feedback on the draft manual posted earlier this month, by PM, email or replying here on the thread.

As noted in some earlier posts, we are currently in the final round. A new change for the project is that there is no more made to order - the various keyboards and extras are in stock so I have a lot of keyboards ready to go out. I think a video will help get the word out about these great old style keyboards.
2022 11 11 new mold photos additional keys and beam (1) - Copy.jpg
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2022 11 11 new mold photos additional keys and beam (2) - Copy.jpg
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2022 11 11 new mold photos additional keys and beam (3) - Copy.jpg
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2022 11 11 new mold photos additional keys and beam (4) - Copy.jpg
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F77 with custom right side block.jpg
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F77 classic case, Industrial SSK keys, F1-F12 front print keys.png
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lucwilride

14 Nov 2022, 16:54

I finished my F77 this weekend, very happy with the result! The key feel is spectacular and puts my mx style boards to shame. The build process was generally straightforward, I had to swap around a few springs but the methods in the manual explained this process well. So far no buzzing springs that I can hear. I also used QMK/Atmel Flip to remap the board for my layout which went smoothly. I had to read the manual a few times and jump around a bit but the instructions are all there. Admittedly previous experience with QMK helped with this. One comment about the Firmware section of the manual. I thought the section labelled "For those flashing firmware for the first time on a computer:" would be better placed at the start of that section or made more obvious.

My left shift is still binding somewhat, I've tried the methods noted in the manual to fix this but I can't seem to get it to actuate smoothly. The two arms that clip into the barrel on this keycap are visibly narrower than the other keys as moulded. I've used as much force as I'm comfortable with to bend them outward but they won't stay and I'm reluctant to use heat. It sounds like the spring coils are moving against another surface as I compress the key. The spring was in the 12 o clock position and the board was held upright while installing that key. I'm wondering what other options I can try to resolve this aside from ordering another Shift keycap?
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Ellipse

14 Nov 2022, 18:44

lucwilride nice photo! Please try the wiggle method as described in the manual - works for me for extra wide keys.

Bionicman

15 Nov 2022, 01:02

Hello,
I ordered a pre-installed solenoid and driver package for my new Model F77, and it works without issues. I am not a very technical person, so I used the provided video and I was able to customize my layout to my satisfaction with QMK.
However, I haven’t been able to find is how to enable the solenoid for my Ctrl, Shift, Alt, and Fn keys. The solenoid is disabled by default only for those keys.
In the manual page, a patch that was applied to exclude certain keys from using the solenoid is mentioned once, but there was no mention on how to enable these keys.
I would like to know how to enable the solenoid for my Ctrl, Shift, Alt, and Fn keys so that all of my keys utilize the pre-installed solenoid.
I am using Windows 10.
Here is my F77 keyboard, going for the classic beige color scheme, with Volume+ and Volume- pearl colors ordered for the right side block:
Attachments
signal-2022-11-14-160027_002.jpeg
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Ellipse

15 Nov 2022, 03:54

I believe it may have something to do with commenting out the line of code as noted in the manual:

#define HAPTIC_EXCLUSION_KEYS 1

Commented out:

//#define HAPTIC_EXCLUSION_KEYS 1

R3G1

15 Nov 2022, 07:43

I recently ordered a classic F77 and am super excited about it! I had a quick question about some of the spare parts - can all the spare USB cables sold on modelfkeyboards.com be used as a replacement for the classic case style?

Ellipse

15 Nov 2022, 23:52

Yes, please pick any USB-C cable. I recently added Gray, Red, Dark Blue, and Light Blue colors to the list.

R3G1

16 Nov 2022, 05:37

Ellipse wrote:
15 Nov 2022, 23:52
Yes, please pick any USB-C cable. I recently added Gray, Red, Dark Blue, and Light Blue colors to the list.
Perfect, thanks!

Ellipse

18 Nov 2022, 22:27

Posting (with permission) one of the newer ultra compact case colors - Off-White/Beige, a color more common to the classic style cases.

This keyboard features Meta and Super keys, which along with the Hyper key, are often used with Linux and Lisp / Space Cadet according to the link below.

https://askubuntu.com/questions/19558/w ... hyper-keys
beige compact F62 - Copy.jpg
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Guppy

19 Nov 2022, 01:14

Ellipse wrote:
18 Nov 2022, 22:27
Posting (with permission) one of the newer ultra compact case colors - Off-White/Beige, a color more common to the classic style cases.

This keyboard features Meta and Super keys, which along with the Hyper key, are often used with Linux and Lisp / Space Cadet according to the link below.

https://askubuntu.com/questions/19558/w ... hyper-keys

beige compact F62 - Copy.jpg
that's a really nice, very striking keyboard design. I would want to build one of those myself if I wasn't already saving up for the beamspring project

Nootz

20 Nov 2022, 01:08

I'm having trouble using Atmel Flip for first-time reprogramming - I've put the keyboard into Bootloader mode and I'm at Step 8/9 on https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/manual/, except when I try to launch Atmel Flip, I get the error "Could not find a Java Virtual Machine, cannot continue." What do I need to solve this?

I'm now worried that if I unplug the keyboard or turn off my PC at this stage the keyboard might be stuck in some half-bootloader mode and I'd have to reset it by opening the case and shorting the pins, could this happen?

Ellipse

20 Nov 2022, 02:10

Nootz you need to install Java I believe, if it is not installed already. Not to worry, the keyboard will move back to regular mode automatically after it is unplugged.

Nootz

20 Nov 2022, 12:55

Ellipse wrote:
20 Nov 2022, 02:10
Nootz you need to install Java I believe, if it is not installed already. Not to worry, the keyboard will move back to regular mode automatically after it is unplugged.
I have the latest Java installed but I'm still getting this error.
Java Installed.PNG
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Good to know it will go to regular mode though.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

20 Nov 2022, 13:02

You’re just looking to flash a new hex file, right?

https://github.com/qmk/qmk_toolbox

Works for everything: QMK, TMK, Soarer’s…

Nootz

20 Nov 2022, 13:04

Muirium wrote:
20 Nov 2022, 13:02
You’re just looking to flash a new hex file, right?

https://github.com/qmk/qmk_toolbox
Yes, but I'm doing it for the first time so I need to use Flip to do the first time setup stuff right? Or is that section of the guide deprecated?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

20 Nov 2022, 13:06

Give it a shot. I don’t have an Ellipse made keyboard but this tidy little app works with all my controllers.

The main window tells you current state: it will show new USB devices showing up and when they are in writeable aka. bootloader aka. DFU mode.

The little selector at the top right should either be set to ATmega32u2 or ATmega32u4 for these boards. Don’t be afraid to change it, the app is smart enough to fail harmlessly.

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