F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

AlexB555

27 May 2023, 22:28

Ellipse wrote:
27 May 2023, 06:16
A nice review from PC World - thanks for sharing the link thefarside!

1. Yes, will do
2. About 5 sets minimum.
Speaking of which, is there anything new about the French BÉPO layout? Have the supply issues been resolved? The last time I talked about this order (2 months ago), the vertical 2u key was backorder.

depletedvespene: In the Quebec CSA keyset, the ESC 1,75u is available (pictogram) in extra. I like this position too :).
Image

timf

04 Jun 2023, 03:12

Hi - newb fssk owner. just delivered last week. Having a little trouble with two keys... is this where I can ask for wisdom? I've gone thru the video and had a good experience except for the space bar (which isn't registering) and the enter (horizontal version) that registers but is slow and sticking. Otherwise I'd already be using it.

When I put a single key on each of the space and enter, they function properly. good click and registering.

So I am appealing for some help and hope I can get this working.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have. I can supply more details.

Cheers.

Ellipse

04 Jun 2023, 03:25

AlexB555 sorry for the delay; the factory has not been able to find any remaining stock of the 2U vertical keys so I'll have to place an order later this month.

timf did you follow the manual's testing procedure for using the signal level monitor tool?

A sticking extra wide key (such as both of the ones you have an issue with) can be fixed through the wiggle method shown in the manual.

timf

04 Jun 2023, 03:29

@Ellipse - On the extra wide key I did try the wiggle method a number of times but I will give it another go with perhaps a little more strength. I was purposely being careful because there are no backups for that particular key.

On the signal level tool - not yet. I did read on that and just wanted to see if there was something here that people would recognize that I've been dumb on. The space bar sounds good but isn't giving the distinct click - yet a single key on that same spot works fine.

I truly appreciate the help. Thank you.

Ellipse

04 Jun 2023, 03:47

Also reinstalling and/or replacing the springs by following the video is probably the next best option to try.

Ellipse

04 Jun 2023, 19:06

Stolen keyboard alert:

Sadly there is another stolen keyboard to be reported: an ultra compact F104 with serial number 11. Please do let me know if you come across this keyboard listed online, or if one does not have the correct serial label with the serial pictured.

Ellipse

05 Jun 2023, 07:40

F15 Split, BS Ortho / Ergodox Style, and F50 reverse auction update:

I am hoping to wrap up the bids in the next week or two. Feel free to join the reverse auction with the link below. You can still get one of these keyboards by not participating in the auction, though the board will be priced higher for all of the remaining 10 or so boards of each type that are reserved for the public.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PqXBAt ... Q2piT6QLk/

Can anyone help set up the matrices for QMK? I can provide screenshots of the PCB. I would like to start testing these boards with QMK (currently the testing has been done with the original xwhatsit firmware).

LuX

07 Jun 2023, 19:11

Hi Ellipse, is the split F15 convertible to ISO? I think I've read some of the other models support both layout options. Actually I'm interested in both the split keyboards but would only want to buy one, is it legal to put my best offer for both keyboards and write in the comment section "if both offers win, only count X and ignore Y"?

As for the intercommunication issue I think the easiest option is to handle it software side. Something like autohotkey and the like are an off the shelf option, but even better would be a dedicated filter driver app.

Ellipse

07 Jun 2023, 19:38

Yes confirmed you can switch it to ISO (ISO Enter and split left shift will work).

Yes OK to add the note. So far the ortholinear ergo style is in higher demand so it may be easier to pick up the F15.

User avatar
acfrazier
Mad Scientist

09 Jun 2023, 15:23

I did a search of the topic and didn't see anyone else ask about this, so here goes. Is anyone else experiencing an issue with Unicomp stepped caps lock keys binding in the F104, and does anyone know how to resolve it? I had Unicomp print red accent keys to match my board and unfortunately the Caps Lock binds when depressed (it does not return up without manual intervention). Right now I am using a gray stepped caps lock from a Lexmark M terminal board which does not bind, but obviously it looks weird. I tried the usual steps for the newly manufactured keys, but that did not resolve the issue.

I attached a photo of the keys for comparison, top to bottom: Unicomp brilliant white, Unicomp red, Lexmark pebble, New Model F pebble. Both Unicomp keys bind, it looks like the red one is older stock because it has some plastic burrs which I have tried to clean up, but even the brilliant white key which is clearly from a newer mold still binds.
IMG_2437.jpeg
IMG_2437.jpeg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 9367 times
This is driving me nuts, so any input would be appreciated.


Edit: Also, Ellipse, since you are monitoring the thread, is there a shipping timeframe estimate for the blank black keyset I ordered about a week ago? I paid for the separate shipping because I didn't want it to sit for however long until my other keyboard ships.

Ellipse

09 Jun 2023, 18:32

Please check out the video in the manual on the project web site which provides advice for binding keys, including the wiggle method and burnishing the back of the stem.

Current backlog is 2-4 weeks for in stock orders, but hopefully that will move back down to 1-4 weeks as I send out the backlog.

genericusername57

09 Jun 2023, 23:32

acfrazier wrote:
09 Jun 2023, 15:23
This is driving me nuts, so any input would be appreciated.
So, this might be completely stupid reply. But have you tried removing the keyboard assembly from the case, to better be able to see where the key gets stuck? Since it's a key on the very edge of the keyboard I would imagine that without the case you might be able to look from below in case you can see where it binds more obviously than with the keyboard assembled.

Ellipse

11 Jun 2023, 08:42

Production update - the factory is still refining the Model M style case tooling. If the latest samples are approved then I hope production on the cases can start this month. Since the inner assemblies have completed production and assembly, it should not be too long before the keyboards can be assembled and make their way into a shipping container, though production and finishing/powdercoating will take a couple months. We are still looking at shipping out to everyone to start later this year. Below shows a detail of the latest sample case. The goal is to get the top and bottom cases to fit together as well as possible and to improve the quality of the countersinking of the screws on the bottom of the case. They were designed to have gaps like the IBM originals but I don't want the gaps to be too big.
case.jpg
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Here is a terrific video testing many mods to the project's solenoid - it is interesting to hear how many different ways the solenoid can sound!
Looking around on YouTube I also came across two new Model F videos that are both not what I have seen before! I cannot recommend the safety of what is done in the video, so definitely do not try at home!

RedESC

11 Jun 2023, 20:59

Ellipse wrote:
11 Jun 2023, 08:42
Production update - the factory is still refining the Model M style case tooling. If the latest samples are approved then I hope production on the cases can start this month. Since the inner assemblies have completed production and assembly, it should not be too long before the keyboards can be assembled and make their way into a shipping container, though production and finishing/powdercoating will take a couple months. We are still looking at shipping out to everyone to start later this year. Below shows a detail of the latest sample case. The goal is to get the top and bottom cases to fit together as well as possible and to improve the quality of the countersinking of the screws on the bottom of the case. They were designed to have gaps like the IBM originals but I don't want the gaps to be too big.

case.jpg

Here is a terrific video testing many mods to the project's solenoid - it is interesting to hear how many different ways the solenoid can sound!
Looking around on YouTube I also came across two new Model F videos that are both not what I have seen before! I cannot recommend the safety of what is done in the video, so definitely do not try at home!
Sorry, I don't understand that last part about gaps, you say it's designed to have gaps like the IBM originals, what do you mean by gaps? Gaps between what?

Ellipse

11 Jun 2023, 21:45

Gaps between the top and bottom case (not a tight seal).

Ellipse

12 Jun 2023, 06:46

Blog update posted:

Please see today's blog update post for a summary of the various goings-on with the project in recent months:
https://modelfkeyboards.com/blog

pupmonster

12 Jun 2023, 14:51

Hello Fellow Model F enthusiasts

Here is hoping that I can get a newly received Model F FSSK keyboard working; it is not being recognized after flashing a QMK layout via the QMK Toolbox.

I wondered if I needed to physically enter the bootloader and followed the instructions here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmJcXnIu180 at about minute 40 for shorting the PROG pads but it did not help. Neither FLIP nor the pandrew util nor the QMK toolbox are seeing the device. But my other Model F F77 keyboard is visible so I do not think that it is due to a missing driver in Windows.

I frankly do not know what other steps to take.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

pupmonster

12 Jun 2023, 16:37

Please disregard. For others, it is the fiddly resetting of the PROG pads that was the problem. If you are in Windows, you know that it works -- at least I was able to tell that it works -- when the Device Manager flickers and reloads.

FIKB

14 Jun 2023, 12:33

While using this keyboard I have noticed that I seem to have quite often letters of words in wrong order. This seem to happen when I type fast. It could be that for some reason I make more mistakes when using this keyboard, but I am wondering could this also be some kind of firmware or hardware issue as well? I haven't noticed any other problems with this keyboard and perhaps I just have to learn to type more carefully, but if this is for example some kind of firmware problem, then I could try to update the firmware.

BuGless

14 Jun 2023, 13:10

Most likely cause are springs that need to be reseated. Just pull off the caps (of the keys which you have issues with), and the springs, and then reattach them. Pay attention to the rotation of the spring on the knob. It's not entirely irrelevant at which angle the spring starts around the base of the knob.

User avatar
engr

14 Jun 2023, 16:00

FIKB wrote:
14 Jun 2023, 12:33
While using this keyboard I have noticed that I seem to have quite often letters of words in wrong order. This seem to happen when I type fast.
Is the keyboard plugged into any kind of USB hub or KVM switch?

genericusername57

16 Jun 2023, 10:06

FIKB wrote:
14 Jun 2023, 12:33
While using this keyboard I have noticed that I seem to have quite often letters of words in wrong order. This seem to happen when I type fast. It could be that for some reason I make more mistakes when using this keyboard, but I am wondering could this also be some kind of firmware or hardware issue as well? I haven't noticed any other problems with this keyboard and perhaps I just have to learn to type more carefully, but if this is for example some kind of firmware problem, then I could try to update the firmware.
I had the same issue and it was solved by reseating the keys involved. Make sure the end of the spring is in between 11-13 o'clock looking at the keyboard from the front. I've found that orienting the top end of the spring made more of a difference than the bottom (attached to the flipper). You could also try inverting the spring (turning it upside down before replacing it)

wolfman

18 Jun 2023, 14:33

Update on me getting my refactored build of F62 and F77 firmware into the “official” QMK.

VIA requires a separate USB IDs for each keyboard. I got and am using the pod.codes USB of vid: 0x1209 and pid:0x6262 for the F62.

The QMK dev team likes pull requests with a small number of file and only one new keyboard at a time. I am going to need to submit multiple pull requests.

I have submitted the first pull requests that contains the xwhatsit code and F62 with the default and VIA keymap. The pull request is currently waiting for a review by the QMK developers.

After the first pull request is accepted. I am going submit a pull request for the F77 with default and VIA keymap.

My plan for the third pull request is to include the remaining keymaps for the F62.

The following pull requests will include the remaining F77 keymaps. The are large number of F77 keymaps. I am going spilt the remaining F77 keymaps across multiple pull requests.

wolfman

18 Jun 2023, 15:46

Takashi wrote:
21 May 2023, 07:36
Hey Ellipse! I don't use an USB-hub, but I changed to another USB-port (from a 2.0 to 3.0 one), and now everything works perfectly. Thank you very much for the suggestion. Now I can enjoy the same wonderful Model-F experience on my trusty older platform as well 😀
EDITED

The default for QMK is to request 500 ma of current from the USB port. This means that the keyboard has to be plugged into a high power USB port. 500ma is needed for those RGB keyboards.

The USB ports on bus powered hub only provide 100 ma. QMK with default USB current configuration will not function correctly with a low power USB port.

Once I get my rebuilt of F62 and F77 into the official QMK I want try lowering the USB current to work with with an low power USB port.

In the manual for the original IBM PC the listed current for the keyboard is more than that of an low power USB port.
Last edited by wolfman on 21 Jun 2023, 05:33, edited 1 time in total.

Takashi

18 Jun 2023, 18:18

Hi all!

I have a slight problem with my F77 Model-F.
Whenever I press the ":." keycap, my spacebar is also going down a little bit.
See here:
https://youtu.be/dx9XRBGgQvs

Also, the left ALT-button is VERY hard to push down if I press on it close to the space-bar.
See here:
https://youtu.be/XRSbIxVPiVg

Any idea what the problem is? Feels like the spacebar "stabilizer-metal-thingy" is being touched by these two buttons, and it's not the correct size?

Ellipse

19 Jun 2023, 23:59

Thanks for the refactoring updates wolfman. Please also try to get in the default layout options in my json files if possible, so folks have some additional starting points built into the QMK site. www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uplo ... -files.zip

FIKB in addition to the recommendations on this thread, please also consider tightening the two controller ground screws as shown in the manual on the project web site.

Takashi please take a look at the manual on the project web site as there is a section specific to adjusting the spacebar, its stabilizer wire, and the metal tabs. It is more of an art than a science.

User avatar
DMA

20 Jun 2023, 23:48

wolfman wrote:
18 Jun 2023, 15:46
The USB ports on unpowered hub only provide 100 ma. QMK with default USB current configuration will not function correctly with a unpowered USB port.
Not really true - hub's downstream ports will provide whatever they have (because current limiters are expensive), it's just that total current from upstream port *shouldn't* exceed 500mA (most motherboards will happily provide 1A - more than that and you risk tripping the (usually - but not always - resettable) fuse).
F77 definitely doesn't consume full 500mA - although it will be interesting to measure current consumption. Solenoid board might definitely cause a brownout on the USB port - but not just the keyboard.

wolfman

21 Jun 2023, 05:39

DMA Thank you for noticing my errors. I have corrected my post.

Mother board USB ports are normally not usb hub ports. They are host USB ports. Host USB ports can exceed 500 ma. The minimum they have to provide is 500 ma.

USB 2.0 standard section 7.2.1

stangbat

22 Jun 2023, 15:37

I wake up my computer by pressing a key on the keyboard. On my F77 that I previously used, all went well. On my F104, the key I use to wake up the computer will stay stuck on.

So if I press the shift key to wake, it will stay stuck until I press another key. If I press the C, it will stay stuck and enter a sting of Cs until I press another key.

I have the keyboard plugged into a USB 2.0/1.1 port on the back panel of the motherboard, but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I see the same behavior when plugged into a USB 3.1 port on the back panel. I'm not using a hub or KVM.

This isn't a huge deal, I normally hit shift, let the computer wake, then hit it again and all is good. But I'm curious if anyone else experiences this or if anyone has an idea of what might be going on.

SunshineRag_DT

25 Jun 2023, 02:20

Ellipse wrote:
06 Apr 2023, 19:32
Full size and other Brand New Model F Keyboards major project launch today! Typing test and teardown
In the future have you ever given any though to releasing an improved layout Model F AT/XT form factor (function pad left, nav cluster right. Basically an improved XTANT?

Something like orihalcon did with his 87 Key XT layout:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71408.0

Image

I partially got this on my Wheelwriter mod but would love to go all the way to an F PCB. Was going to do a mod of wcass old gerbers for XTANT but put the project on hold due to difficulty making a barrel plate.

Image

I also wonder if you would ever consider making a drop in compatible F flipper keyboard module that would be compatible with existing Model Ms. Those who may not be able to afford a $400 new keyboard might pay $150-$250 to upgrade to F flippers in their Model Ms.....

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