F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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darkcruix

09 Jun 2018, 11:46

Takashi wrote: By the way... Chyrosran22 has made an extensive Model-F review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jds326gks
!!!Simply blown away!!! Fantastic video and he needs to get the very first demo model to review!

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Luna
Alt255

09 Jun 2018, 12:04

Ellipse wrote: Thanks Zed on the Alt Gr.

The CM style is available but only as an add on, not installed on the keyboards to minimize adding further variations for the factory to do.

- How/where do we order the CM-style?
- Can our keyboard come preconfigured for it?

User avatar
darkcruix

09 Jun 2018, 12:10

Luna wrote:
Ellipse wrote: Thanks Zed on the Alt Gr.

The CM style is available but only as an add on, not installed on the keyboards to minimize adding further variations for the factory to do.

- How/where do we order the CM-style?
- Can our keyboard come preconfigured for it?
As Ellipse wrote, it cannot be pre-configured with it, but ordered as an add-on. Once we have the prices from him, you normally can go into the store, add the "Special Keys/Other customization" in the required amount and then mention "CM-Style Keypad Set". If you want to add it to an existing order, you can mention it in the notes section (to remove the shipping cost).
Hope I have described it accurately.

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Luna
Alt255

09 Jun 2018, 12:28

Thanks, will send him a mail. I hope it's possible to get the arrows in blue.

Damn, I'm already in for $843. ;)

sl70309

09 Jun 2018, 20:15

Hello,

Is mass production in June for sure?

thank you

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consolation

10 Jun 2018, 05:46

For the CM style numpad - could I suggest using this layout - it adds operators and a meta key for easy access to nav cluster (or vice versa.) This will really make the F77 much more functional. I bodged together a whitefox+programmable numpad to try it out, worked really well.
CM Keypad options.PNG
CM Keypad options.PNG (11.36 KiB) Viewed 885 times
The extra meta key means all the nav commands (or numpad) are one handed, if you program it to toggle on double tap the layers can be locked for when you are using it for extended periods. If you are not a fan of numpads for data entry (what's wrong with you - sick puppy :o ), set the numpad as your function keys and the navigation cluster as your top layer.

PS. Sorry about the horrendous hack job with the image editing.

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darkcruix

10 Jun 2018, 08:25

The Meta key is more like a NumLock-Key from your description. What it would do, is moving out the dot to the zero and you would need to toggle it each time, which would be cumbersome for many use cases, imho.
The Print, Scroll and Pause keys aren't really that much of use these days and can easily be moved into a Fn-Layer. In terms of the cursor keys, I can see your thoughts here, but the idea is to keep the keys as navigation keys at all times, otherwise you could go back to the good old Nav cluster design of the F-AT.
These are just my thoughts on it - others might think completely different on it.

Here's how I would deal with switching the num cluster:
Screen Shot 2018-06-10 at 09.05.49.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-06-10 at 09.05.49.jpg (89.23 KiB) Viewed 797 times

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Luna
Alt255

10 Jun 2018, 22:58

So, I ordered the CM style numpad. It was even possible to get the cursors in blue so I ordered the numerals in pearl and the cursors in both pebble and blue.
The amount of customizability we get here is unprecedented.

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Luna
Alt255

11 Jun 2018, 09:09

Here are my layouts.

My standard HHKB with numpad layout:
HHKB.jpg
HHKB.jpg (82.21 KiB) Viewed 651 times
- /* and % are accessible via Fn. PrScr, ScrLk and Pause are accessed via Fn on IOP
- Numlock functions like on any other keyboards switching between numerals and navigation keys.
This would be a configuration for a frequent numpad user.




My HHKB CM Numpad layout:
HHKBCM.jpg
HHKBCM.jpg (84.55 KiB) Viewed 651 times
Here I replaced the ~ key with a NumLock and put the ~ on the Esc.
When NumLock is enabled:
- you have 1 up to 0 and . as well as the cursor keys functioning as cursors.
- =+%*-/ are acessed via shift
- Ins up toi Pause are not functioning.
When Numlock is disabled:
- Ins up to Pause are functioning, the numerals and =+%*-/ aren't
- The cursor keys are functioning as cursors
So with this configuration the cursor block is always functioning. Makes sense?
I think it's a pretty good configuration for an occasional numpad user.

evoman

11 Jun 2018, 11:48

Seeing all these posts about layouts I went to look at my order. I see I had added the HHKB 6 Key Set when I purchased the Front Printed F1-F12. But I am actually not sure what comes in the HHKB 6.

My original order has a configuration with the 0-9 and cursor keys, with a UK ISO layout. I was planning to swap the top row for the function keys, but I am not sure where the HHKB set fits into this. I see notes that it splits the right shift key, but what key do you get there? Is that flexible? (like can it be a function or a num lock or whatever?). I am tempted to see if I can swap the industrial blue set for the HHKB set if I cannot figure out how it fits my configuration. (and yes, I should have noticed this when I ordered - I think I did that order in a rush and didn't really think about that option when I selected it!).

Thanks for any info

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darkcruix

11 Jun 2018, 14:42

evoman wrote: Seeing all these posts about layouts I went to look at my order. I see I had added the HHKB 6 Key Set when I purchased the Front Printed F1-F12. But I am actually not sure what comes in the HHKB 6.
Look here:
https://imgur.com/a/WR7h4
evoman wrote: ... I see notes that it splits the right shift key, but what key do you get there?
You can for example add the Fn key to the right of the Shift key.
evoman wrote: ... Is that flexible? (like can it be a function or a num lock or whatever?).
It is 100% configurable - you can add any key to any place. (if you want you can have every key just be the 'A' - not that it would make any sense)[/quote]

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depletedvespene

11 Jun 2018, 14:49

darkcruix wrote: It is 100% configurable - you can add any key to any place. (if you want you can have every key just be the 'A' - not that it would make any sense)
Or you could go with 'X' letters for all the alphanum keys, like some other nutjob out there... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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darkcruix

11 Jun 2018, 15:15

Love it - for password protection you could also use the asterisk * for every alphanum key

Takashi

11 Jun 2018, 15:43

It is 100% configurable - you can add any key to any place. (if you want you can have every key just be the 'A' - not that it would make any sense)

----------

How do you program the keyboard so that each key does what you want it to do?

User avatar
darkcruix

11 Jun 2018, 15:45

Takashi wrote: How do you program the keyboard so that each key does what you want it to do?
Simple answer as screenshot:
Screen Shot 2018-06-11 at 15.44.27.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-06-11 at 15.44.27.jpg (301.34 KiB) Viewed 679 times

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FXT
XT

11 Jun 2018, 17:32

The software for the xwhatsit is amazing. Very easy to use and it works perfectly.

Takashi

11 Jun 2018, 17:37

darkcruix wrote:
Takashi wrote: How do you program the keyboard so that each key does what you want it to do?
Simple answer as screenshot:
Looks amazing! Is this software included with the keyboard delivery?

codemonkeymike

11 Jun 2018, 18:35

Takashi wrote: Looks amazing! Is this software included with the keyboard delivery?
It is available now, Ellipse is using an xwhatsit controller (which has been made a bit smaller then the standard version). The xwhatsit controller has free open source software which has been available for quite a while. I believe the design of the original xwhatsit is GPLv3 so Ellipse's smaller controller will also have to be open source (PCB design files that is)

xwhatsit thread:
f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/xwhatsit-s-grand-unif ... t=xwhatsit

User avatar
darkcruix

11 Jun 2018, 18:54

codemonkeymike wrote:
Takashi wrote: Looks amazing! Is this software included with the keyboard delivery?
It is available now, Ellipse is using an xwhatsit controller (which has been made a bit smaller then the standard version). The xwhatsit controller has free open source software which has been available for quite a while. I believe the design of the original xwhatsit is GPLv3 so Ellipse's smaller controller will also have to be open source (PCB design files that is)

xwhatsit thread:
f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/xwhatsit-s-grand-unif ... t=xwhatsit
Correct - I have compiled a fork of it that has some specific mentions of the New Model F, some bugfixes etc. I'll make it available once the real hardware is in my hands and tested with it.

codemonkeymike

11 Jun 2018, 19:09

darkcruix wrote:
Correct - I have compiled a fork of it that has some specific mentions of the New Model F, some bugfixes etc. I'll make it available once the real hardware is in my hands and tested with it.
Very nice! The joys of open source

Takashi

11 Jun 2018, 19:53

darkcruix wrote:
codemonkeymike wrote:
Takashi wrote: Looks amazing! Is this software included with the keyboard delivery?
It is available now, Ellipse is using an xwhatsit controller (which has been made a bit smaller then the standard version). The xwhatsit controller has free open source software which has been available for quite a while. I believe the design of the original xwhatsit is GPLv3 so Ellipse's smaller controller will also have to be open source (PCB design files that is)

xwhatsit thread:
f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/xwhatsit-s-grand-unif ... t=xwhatsit
Correct - I have compiled a fork of it that has some specific mentions of the New Model F, some bugfixes etc. I'll make it available once the real hardware is in my hands and tested with it.
Great, looking forward to it!

User avatar
wcass

12 Jun 2018, 01:01

Mini xwhatsit thread: workshop-f7/a-smaller-xwhatsit-t13479-60.html

I like my Fn key easy to reach, so i put mine at the "Caps Lock" spot (Fn + Shift = Caps Lock).

User avatar
0100010

12 Jun 2018, 02:48

darkcruix wrote:
codemonkeymike wrote:
Takashi wrote: Looks amazing! Is this software included with the keyboard delivery?
It is available now, Ellipse is using an xwhatsit controller (which has been made a bit smaller then the standard version). The xwhatsit controller has free open source software which has been available for quite a while. I believe the design of the original xwhatsit is GPLv3 so Ellipse's smaller controller will also have to be open source (PCB design files that is)

xwhatsit thread:
f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/xwhatsit-s-grand-unif ... t=xwhatsit
Correct - I have compiled a fork of it that has some specific mentions of the New Model F, some bugfixes etc. I'll make it available once the real hardware is in my hands and tested with it.
Which debounce is in it? Orginal or the newer one?

Ellipse

12 Jun 2018, 06:37

Spring Success! Out of the 12 samples we have one match that will be approved for production! The search is finally complete after several dozen unique spring variations over the past few years.

I would say it is as nice or even nicer (less worn out) than my original gold standard reference (off my 1984 6110344 F122). It has a sharp click followed by a solid resonance that is not too high in pitch, not too low in volume, and not too short in duration. I was surprised the match was so close to not only any original Model F spring but to my reference spring/flipper.

I hope to bring the new springs (along with the keyboard prototypes) to the NY meetup on Saturday and to my Bay Area (CA) Model F meetup I am trying to set up on July 7.

Regarding the key options, yes the other CM keys and number pad keys without sublegends like "Home" will be offered but they will likely ship later/separately so we do not delay things even more. Feel free to PM me if interested in adding.

User avatar
darkcruix

12 Jun 2018, 06:53

Ellipse wrote: Spring Success! Out of the 12 samples we have one match that will be approved for production! The search is finally complete after several dozen unique spring variations over the past few years.
Wonderful news - any updates on the key molds for the larger than 1U keys?
What about the dye-sub? Any updates on it?

Shihatsu

12 Jun 2018, 09:55

Ellipse, for the sake of the old an the new gods, even for death himself (NOT TODAY!) - can I purchase a Spring sample bag? I would just LOVE to experience some of the way you are going by myself. This board has come less and less a keyboard I want to use and more and more a kind of industrial develoment experience - hence in a passive, observing way. I would like to be more on the active side :D

User avatar
darkcruix

12 Jun 2018, 10:23

Shihatsu wrote: Ellipse, for the sake of the old an the new gods, even for death himself (NOT TODAY!) - can I purchase a Spring sample bag? I would just LOVE to experience some of the way you are going by myself. This board has come less and less a keyboard I want to use and more and more a kind of industrial develoment experience - hence in a passive, observing way. I would like to be more on the active side :D
I can only agree - this is way more than a re-production. It feels like re-creating the processes, materials, and dedication of a lost era, where engineering built to last. Something that is not put into recycling after a couple of years.

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hypkx
Chasing the Dream

12 Jun 2018, 10:47

It's very nice to see progress, can't wait to get my keyboard.

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darkcruix

12 Jun 2018, 14:14

Ellipse wrote: ...I hope to bring the new springs (along with the keyboard prototypes) to the NY meetup on Saturday and to my Bay Area (CA) Model F meetup I am trying to set up on July 7...
I hope there will be several of you at the meetup who can make some photos / videos. Sound recordings on a meet-up is not necessarily ideal, but I would love to listen-in as well :)
Wish I could be there.

codemonkeymike

12 Jun 2018, 14:19

I'll be there, I will try to remember to take a video and some pics.

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