F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

NilesLinus

28 Sep 2018, 06:21

Positively subdued compared to this abberation of color and proximity. I think I may have a flare for intentionally ugly hardware.
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xxhellfirexx

28 Sep 2018, 06:51

NilesLinus wrote: Positively subdued compared to this abberation of color and proximity. I think I may have a flare for intentionally ugly hardware.
There isn't enough contrast for the green and orange keys. Also, what is with the redundant front legends?

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green-squid

28 Sep 2018, 08:10

Ellipse wrote:
Finished keys (7).jpg
it would be ciol if I could get a bag of those blue keys and put them on a model m/f. Then it would be all blue and cool! Though not at $4 a pop but I get why its so pricy.

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Ludovician

28 Sep 2018, 14:15

You can get a full set of blue keys for $54.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... iece-keys/

NilesLinus

28 Sep 2018, 15:19

xxhellfirexx wrote:
NilesLinus wrote: Positively subdued compared to this abberation of color and proximity. I think I may have a flare for intentionally ugly hardware.
There isn't enough contrast for the green and orange keys. Also, what is with the redundant front legends?

CONTRAST: Yeah I agree. I was a little disappointed when they came in. Just pad printed junk really. They’re also really thin. It’ll be good to get some PBT F77s in here.

FRONT LEGENDS: I don’t know. I liked it :)

samuelcable

28 Sep 2018, 18:23

I asked this on the discord channel for the meetup, but, I want a Model f 77 with hhkb layout and ansi-UK caps for the rest, would that be possible to order from the site? thanks

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Luna
Alt255

28 Sep 2018, 18:35

samuelcable wrote: I asked this on the discord channel for the meetup, but, I want a Model f 77 with hhkb layout and ansi-UK caps for the rest, would that be possible to order from the site? thanks
I have a beige F77 HHKB ANSI single digit serial number on order. Pearl alphas, pebble mods, 2 different layouts for the numpad, all the blue keys, extra keys and about every extra you can get. Also all before mentioned keycaps in double!
It was a $950 order but I kind of lost interest so I'm selling my spot. You can have it for $600 shipped to you if your interested. I'd ask Ellipse to ship it straight to you if you want it.

samuelcable

28 Sep 2018, 18:38

Luna wrote:
samuelcable wrote: I asked this on the discord channel for the meetup, but, I want a Model f 77 with hhkb layout and ansi-UK caps for the rest, would that be possible to order from the site? thanks
I have a beige F77 HHKB ANSI single digit serial number on order. Pearl alphas, pebble mods, 2 different layouts for the numpad, all the blue keys, extra keys and about every extra you can get. Also all before mentioned keycaps in double!
It was a $950 order but I kind of lost interest so I'm selling my spot. You can have it for $600 shipped to you if your interested. I'd ask Ellipse to ship it straight to you if you want it.
Don't think I'd need that much extra, sorry. If ellipse doesn't want me to get ansi UK on the hhkb f77 I'll probably just harvest caps from a m122

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Luna
Alt255

28 Sep 2018, 18:42

samuelcable wrote: Don't think I'd need that much extra, sorry. If ellipse doesn't want me to get ansi UK on the hhkb f77 I'll probably just harvest caps from a m122
No problem, maybe someone will be interested. Since it's not shipped yet it can be shipped worldwide.

Ellipse

30 Sep 2018, 03:29

Niles - yes any micro USB cable should be swappable, as long as it fits and the connector molding is not too wide.

There are also plans to add a trackpoint, wireless bluetooth capability, and port QMK/TMK to the ATMEGA32U2 chip (does anyone want to help with this? I'll put you in touch with others interested).

Luna - the plan is for early next year.

depleted - I have not yet tallied the languages but under 10% of keyboards are configured with non-US layouts.

Ludovician-yes you can order HHKB set in blue. Each extra key of any color is 4 units of the store item "$1 increments"

samuelcable - yes this is OK to do. Please order ISO Enter, international layout, specify UK layout in the order notes, order the HHKB add on key set, and order 10 units of the store item $1 increments for the HHKB style split right shift.

Lagomorph

01 Oct 2018, 13:40

There are also plans to add a trackpoint, wireless bluetooth capability, and port QMK/TMK to the ATMEGA32U2 chip (does anyone want to help with this? I'll put you in touch with others interested).
There are plans for a trackpoint mod? Because an F with a modern trackpoint (not the joystick ones) might be my dream keyboard*. Is there a thread where this is being discussed? I wonder if it would work similarly to the Tex Yoda?

Don't mean to take the thread slightly off-topic, but I just got a case of the vapors reading that.

fans himself

* OK, maybe a split 60 or 75% beamspring board (!) with a modern layout and a trackpoint would be the ultimate, but that's pretty much out of the realm of possibility.

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Elrick

02 Oct 2018, 03:20

Lagomorph wrote: * OK, maybe a split 60 or 75% beamspring board (!) with a modern layout and a trackpoint would be the ultimate, but that's pretty much out of the realm of possibility.
After this Model-F Group Buy passes into history permanently, hoping that MAYBE Ellipse can see a future development of the BeamSpring switched keyboard.

Because now it's setting world record's in keyboard pricing. To simply ignore it or pretend it will not last is extremely naive and ignorant.

Ellipse can see that the future is in going after the MOST desirable keyboard models ever built by human hands, it's the next most logical progression.

Ellipse

02 Oct 2018, 03:25

Here is the trackpoint discussion page on the web site: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questio ... t-version/

If interested in the trackpoint Model F mod, please do message the guy who set up an email address for the project.

andrea-i

02 Oct 2018, 07:59

Elrick wrote:
Lagomorph wrote: * OK, maybe a split 60 or 75% beamspring board (!) with a modern layout and a trackpoint would be the ultimate, but that's pretty much out of the realm of possibility.
After this Model-F Group Buy passes into history permanently, hoping that MAYBE Ellipse can see a future development of the BeamSpring switched keyboard.

Because now it's setting world record's in keyboard pricing. To simply ignore it or pretend it will not last is extremely naive and ignorant.

Ellipse can see that the future is in going after the MOST desirable keyboard models ever built by human hands, it's the next most logical progression.
For as good looking and awesome clicking as a beamspring can be, it will always suffer from two main flaws: switches are too tall, layout is not modern.
I don't see Ellipse going these far lengths once again to bring back something that is far from perfect but just cool.
I know owners of this legendary keyboard would probably kill me right now, but from a design standpoint I think the kishsaver is the only keyboard from a long gone era that truly deserved this kind of effort.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

02 Oct 2018, 08:03

Rather than a slavish reproduction of a beamspring model with all of its height and layout quirks, we need a modern reinvention of that switch in a smaller form factor. All of the fantastic typing feel, and none of the drawbacks.

Easy for me to say, since I have no idea how to accomplish it! :D

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darkcruix

02 Oct 2018, 08:15

Elrick wrote:
Lagomorph wrote: * OK, maybe a split 60 or 75% beamspring board (!) with a modern layout and a trackpoint would be the ultimate, but that's pretty much out of the realm of possibility.
After this Model-F Group Buy passes into history permanently, hoping that MAYBE Ellipse can see a future development of the BeamSpring switched keyboard.

Because now it's setting world record's in keyboard pricing. To simply ignore it or pretend it will not last is extremely naive and ignorant.

Ellipse can see that the future is in going after the MOST desirable keyboard models ever built by human hands, it's the next most logical progression.
I was looking into a re-production of the switches only. Beam springs, return coil, metal stem, and o-rings are in-expensive (cents). The slider with rivet spring and fly-plate with a rivet require not only the molds and cutting, but also multiple steps to assemble the individual pieces together. The switch housing is also not in-expensive but not too bad. Including the tooling and a small production run of 10,000 switches, it was estimated to bring down the per-switch cost between EUR 11.50 and EUR 20.00 each. If I would calculate a keyboard with 87 keys, we would end up at roughly EUR 1500 only for the switches (no keycaps, no case etc). Running this in China, you'd likely get this down to EUR 600 for the switches. If you'd end up with 1000 keyboards, the price would shrink further, but I have no experience in that.
Except a few enthusiasts I doubt, we will get that many people.

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depletedvespene

02 Oct 2018, 11:30

Techno Trousers wrote: Rather than a slavish reproduction of a beamspring model with all of its height and layout quirks, we need a modern reinvention of that switch in a smaller form factor. All of the fantastic typing feel, and none of the drawbacks.

Easy for me to say, since I have no idea how to accomplish it! :D
A beamspring 75%, perhaps?

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Elrick

02 Oct 2018, 12:00

depletedvespene wrote:
Techno Trousers wrote: Rather than a slavish reproduction of a beamspring model with all of its height and layout quirks, we need a modern reinvention of that switch in a smaller form factor. All of the fantastic typing feel, and none of the drawbacks.

Easy for me to say, since I have no idea how to accomplish it! :D
A beamspring 75%, perhaps?
Why waste such an opportunity. Far better to build a Full-sized 101 keyboard, to appeal to everyone then offer the usual 75% and 60% versions for the other freaks.

Stick with the modern layouts using as near as authentic Beam Spring reproduction (smaller and more efficient design).

Just having that Glorious feedback at your finger tips and it's deafening noise is enough to raise the 'juices' in any hardcore, keyboard plebeian ;) .

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darkcruix

02 Oct 2018, 12:05

Elrick wrote:
Why waste such an opportunity. Far better to build a Full-sized 101 keyboard, to appeal to everyone then offer the usual 75% and 60% versions for the other freaks.

Stick with the modern layouts using as near as authentic Beam Spring reproduction (smaller and more efficient design).

Just having that Glorious feedback at your finger tips and it's deafening noise is enough to raise the 'juices' in any hardcore, keyboard plebeian ;) .

Start designing :) I have some ideas on the switches, but ... well ... see for yourself :):
IMG_7629.jpg
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Lagomorph

02 Oct 2018, 12:17

Ellipse wrote: Here is the trackpoint discussion page on the web site: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questio ... t-version/

If interested in the trackpoint Model F mod, please do message the guy who set up an email address for the project.
Thanks Ellipse!

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0100010

03 Oct 2018, 00:36

Elrick wrote:
depletedvespene wrote:
Techno Trousers wrote: Rather than a slavish reproduction of a beamspring model with all of its height and layout quirks, we need a modern reinvention of that switch in a smaller form factor. All of the fantastic typing feel, and none of the drawbacks.

Easy for me to say, since I have no idea how to accomplish it! :D
A beamspring 75%, perhaps?
Why waste such an opportunity. Far better to build a Full-sized 101 keyboard, to appeal to everyone then offer the usual 75% and 60% versions for the other freaks.

Stick with the modern layouts using as near as authentic Beam Spring reproduction (smaller and more efficient design).

Just having that Glorious feedback at your finger tips and it's deafening noise is enough to raise the 'juices' in any hardcore, keyboard plebeian ;) .
60 / 77 / 103 key beamspring

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

03 Oct 2018, 00:54

0100010 wrote:
60 / 77 / 103 key beamspring
Don't forget 87 key / TKL. That's a must for me.

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digital_matthew

03 Oct 2018, 01:18

Model M2 form factor, height-reduced beam spring switches with Alps SKCM Blue sound. And an espresso machine.

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Elrick

03 Oct 2018, 01:27

digital_matthew wrote: Model M2 form factor, height-reduced beam spring switches with Alps SKCM Blue sound. And an espresso machine.
Also what's very important here is a new key-cap fitting.

MUST use the traditional Cherry fitting because it shall allow all future BeamSpring addicts to fully customize their keyboards with millions of different colours and profiles made by GMK, BSP, Signature Plastics and/or many other manufacturers.

Don't stick with the OLD BeamSpring key-cap fitting because all of those greedy owners with extra BS key-caps, will be charging thousands for their spare key-sets. Also the old IBM keyboard layouts would not fit today's 60, 70, 87 or 103 keyboards.

Have to be really smart on how you will tackle this and use what is currently available, let OTHER manufacturers supply new colour-ways for these future Beam Springs. Then Life couldn't get better for us or the Beam Spring phenomenon.

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Scarpia

03 Oct 2018, 07:51

Should we take the beamspring discussion to another thread?

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Elrick

03 Oct 2018, 09:32

Scarpia wrote: Should we take the beamspring discussion to another thread?
Yes, why not?

Unless Ellipse wants to enter into it after he completes his Model-F foray.....

There is nothing greater than producing one of IBM's earliest desired keyboards, once the Model-F is truly finished.

samuelcable

03 Oct 2018, 18:51

Would front printed keycaps be withen the realm of possibilities? I am about to order one of these keyboards next week but I miss the cursor and blink front printed keys on the original keyboards

Ellipse

03 Oct 2018, 23:41

Great Samuel glad you are joining the project! Unfortunately I do not do custom dye sub or front printing.

samuelcable

04 Oct 2018, 03:30

Ellipse wrote: Great Samuel glad you are joining the project! Unfortunately I do not do custom dye sub or front printing.
sorry for asking. and im happy to be a part of it! i love model f's feeling so having what feels like a practially brand new one will be very satisfactory

NilesLinus

06 Oct 2018, 20:26

I have purchased 2 Xwhatsit solenoid boards and am hoping they will be plug and play with the Xwhatsit PCB that ships with the F77s I ordered. (Is it really as simple as this? Are there usb power supply issues to consider?)

The biggest question: Where do I find a compatible solenoid to interface with the board. I have had little luck wandering around eBay etc.

Thanks.

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