F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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FXT
XT

07 Oct 2018, 03:02

You will need to solder on an expansion header for the solenoid board. Beamspring/blue switch F solenoids will work, and there is also a Chinese solenoid that'll work too but I can't seem to find the eBay listing I used to purchase one.

NilesLinus

07 Oct 2018, 07:49

FXT wrote: You will need to solder on an expansion header for the solenoid board. Beamspring/blue switch F solenoids will work, and there is also a Chinese solenoid that'll work too but I can't seem to find the eBay listing I used to purchase one.
I’m afraid I’m pretty new at this, though I’ve done a fair bit of soldering before.

When you say solder on the expansion header, are you talking about the 90-degree piece, or is that something else?

Would you be able to provide the specs of the solenoid you had luck with? Maybe I could match it somewhere.

Thanks!

NilesLinus

07 Oct 2018, 07:51

On that note, is there anyone with a beamspring solenoid (or two) they’d be willing to sell?

Thanks.

User avatar
FXT
XT

07 Oct 2018, 15:22

NilesLinus wrote:
FXT wrote: You will need to solder on an expansion header for the solenoid board. Beamspring/blue switch F solenoids will work, and there is also a Chinese solenoid that'll work too but I can't seem to find the eBay listing I used to purchase one.
I’m afraid I’m pretty new at this, though I’ve done a fair bit of soldering before.

When you say solder on the expansion header, are you talking about the 90-degree piece, or is that something else?

Would you be able to provide the specs of the solenoid you had luck with? Maybe I could match it somewhere.

Thanks!
Yeah it's the 90 degree piece that's included with the solenoid driver board. Here's the title of the eBay listing I purchased my Chinese solenoid from: 0837L-06C20 6V 0.3A 2mm 0.2kg First Stroke Push Solenoid Electromagnet with Base. I wasn't able to find the exact listing for some reason.

Ellipse

07 Oct 2018, 15:42

The new Model F controllers will come with header pins pre-soldered.

NilesLinus

07 Oct 2018, 23:35

That’s great Ellipse! Thanks.

NilesLinus

07 Oct 2018, 23:36

Perfect FXT. Might be just enough info to hunt something down.

NilesLinus

08 Oct 2018, 01:35

FXT wrote:
NilesLinus wrote:
FXT wrote: You will need to solder on an expansion header for the solenoid board. Beamspring/blue switch F solenoids will work, and there is also a Chinese solenoid that'll work too but I can't seem to find the eBay listing I used to purchase one.
I’m afraid I’m pretty new at this, though I’ve done a fair bit of soldering before.

When you say solder on the expansion header, are you talking about the 90-degree piece, or is that something else?

Would you be able to provide the specs of the solenoid you had luck with? Maybe I could match it somewhere.

Thanks!
Yeah it's the 90 degree piece that's included with the solenoid driver board. Here's the title of the eBay listing I purchased my Chinese solenoid from: 0837L-06C20 6V 0.3A 2mm 0.2kg First Stroke Push Solenoid Electromagnet with Base. I wasn't able to find the exact listing for some reason.

I believe I’ve found it, if anyone else is looking.
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/uuvh9Xw

NilesLinus

08 Oct 2018, 02:19

Ellipse:

Orihalcon was unsure if the smaller Xwhatsit you are using in the F77 will have the expansion port for the solenoid board like the larger standard Xwhatsit PCB does. I think I’ve surmised from your previous comments that your proprietary Xwhatsit board does indeed have this expansion capability. Am I correct? Thanks.

Ellipse

08 Oct 2018, 03:18

yep Niles - here is a photo the new xwhatsits: https://imgur.com/GyG1wi4

The expansion port also allows for LED lock light mods per xwhatsit's Model F manual.

Niles it would be great to maybe do a group buy of those - I believe there is significant interest for adding solenoids to Model F keyboards with a possible discount for shipping in bulk. These should fit in the classic case F62 and F77 keyboards. Looks like here is one listing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-6V-0 ... 95277.html

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JP!

08 Oct 2018, 03:31

FXT wrote: Yeah it's the 90 degree piece that's included with the solenoid driver board. Here's the title of the eBay listing I purchased my Chinese solenoid from: 0837L-06C20 6V 0.3A 2mm 0.2kg First Stroke Push Solenoid Electromagnet with Base. I wasn't able to find the exact listing for some reason.
This is the listing I've been keeping tabs on:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/0837L-06K-6V-0 ... 1438.l2649

NilesLinus

08 Oct 2018, 04:58

Oops. Just got a PM that my link was off. Looks like Ellipse has been kind enough to post a correct version for me, but just for confirmation let me try this again:

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cNS4gI4u

Yes! A group buy would be a good idea. I’ve already ordered two and they shipped within a couple hours. Fast! Of course they’re shipping free from China so I probably won’t see them for a while.

NilesLinus

08 Oct 2018, 05:03

JP! wrote:
FXT wrote: Yeah it's the 90 degree piece that's included with the solenoid driver board. Here's the title of the eBay listing I purchased my Chinese solenoid from: 0837L-06C20 6V 0.3A 2mm 0.2kg First Stroke Push Solenoid Electromagnet with Base. I wasn't able to find the exact listing for some reason.
This is the listing I've been keeping tabs on:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/0837L-06K-6V-0 ... 1438.l2649

JP!: While the unit you linked to is slightly different from the one I ordered, I did ask Orihalcon about that very solenoid and he confirmed that he thought it would probably work.

User avatar
FXT
XT

08 Oct 2018, 06:09

Ellipse wrote: yep Niles - here is a photo the new xwhatsits: https://imgur.com/GyG1wi4

The expansion port also allows for LED lock light mods per xwhatsit's Model F manual.

Niles it would be great to maybe do a group buy of those - I believe there is significant interest for adding solenoids to Model F keyboards with a possible discount for shipping in bulk. These should fit in the classic case F62 and F77 keyboards. Looks like here is one listing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-6V-0 ... 95277.html
That looks just like the one I bought. Is anyone able to confirm it'd fit in a classic case F62/F77? I had to trim mine to get it to fit in an F107.

Ellipse

10 Oct 2018, 03:59

Great, I've asked orihalcon to get in touch with those expressing interest as he's the only one who sells the solenoid drivers.

FXT do you have any photos of your new production solenoid and what you had to trim on the solenoid? Might be helpful for those looking to do the same on their F62/F77.

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FXT
XT

10 Oct 2018, 06:16

I don't have any pics ATM, but the one JP linked looks like it doesn't need any trimming. The one I bought had two little ears on it that made it too wide to fit inside my F107 without cutting them off.

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Elrick

10 Oct 2018, 12:05

Ellipse wrote: FXT do you have any photos of your new production solenoid and what you had to trim on the solenoid? Might be helpful for those looking to do the same on their F62/F77.
Ellipse why don't you provide it as an EXTRA option to have it fitted with everyone's order?

Of course not expecting it to be given free of charge but I would be willing to pay extra for that indulgent sound provided for my F77 series.

If you're going into IBM territory then why not go in ALL the way? Make this Model-F really sound magnificent ;) .

Ellipse

10 Oct 2018, 13:27

Sorry I want to get everyone's keyboards out as soon as possible without adding any more complexity to the orders.

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Elrick

11 Oct 2018, 07:53

Ellipse wrote: Sorry I want to get everyone's keyboards out as soon as possible without adding any more complexity to the orders.
Complexity, DT thrives on that without remorse. We eat it for breakfast then shit it out by tea time.

I'm willing to wait for that EXTRA update on my order, because waiting is the most loyal thing anyone can do when they know what they're receiving is 100% unique and very rare.

Anyone that doesn't want it, can get their product quickly but those that know the product will wait. I'm happy to wait during 2019 quite easily or maybe even out towards 2020 (US federal election).

User avatar
tron

11 Oct 2018, 08:10

Maybe Orihalcon can make a solenoid kit with the mounting hardware, driver and solenoid together. It should be super easy to install and set up in the Xwhatsit software if it's like the beamspring expansion header drop down menu.

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Zed

11 Oct 2018, 20:20

If it is not too late, I would like to get on the solenoid interest list as well.

Has anyone actually verified that the ebay solenoid posted above works with the xwhatsit driver?

The documentation I found for the driver says it runs at 9V, designed for coil resistance down to 25-30 ohms and is current limited (presumably to around 300-360mA). The ebay solenoid is 6V @ 150mA which works out to a resistance of 40 ohms. Sending 9V to a 40 ohm load, is 225mA of current. It seems like the board will drive the solenoid fine but I have to wonder what the life expectancy of the solenoid will be be when over-driven like this.

str8away

11 Oct 2018, 20:59

I'd also like to get in on this solenoid awesomeness if possible

segacontroller

11 Oct 2018, 22:04

Just wondering as it looks like everything is done, are custom/low serial with unprinted keys waiting for dye-sub to ship, or will they ship as assembly is completed?

Ellipse

11 Oct 2018, 23:44

sega, everything from the early bird round will come over on one container ship. We still have a ways to go with assembly - several hundred thousand parts need to be put together! The factory is looking into the possibility of using robotic systems to reduce assembly time.

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Muirium
µ

12 Oct 2018, 10:41

Better put an armed guard on that boat. The Kish pirates…

pbw

12 Oct 2018, 15:35

I think we all got somewhat lucky that keyboards are one of the few (if not the only) PC parts that managed to escape the dreaded tariff. And Ellipse's insistence on minimizing delays worked out perfectly, since taking extra time to add the trackpoint to the keyboards could have potentially caused them to become a "keyboard and mouse bundle" that may have gotten hit with the tariff. Unless I'm wrong and we got hit with the tariff anyway because of all the aluminum and steel. Ellipse, any word on that?

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FXT
XT

12 Oct 2018, 17:00

I thought the cases were made of zinc like the originals

pbw

12 Oct 2018, 19:09

FXT wrote: I thought the cases were made of zinc like the originals
The full-size are. The compacts are aluminum

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Muirium
µ

12 Oct 2018, 19:59

You mean the IBM originals — like my Kishsaver here — are aluminium? It's bloody heavy, whatever it is. Heavier than my 15" MacBook Pro.

According to Wolfram Alpha, zinc is 2.6X denser than aluminium. Without getting all Archimedes on the matter, my hunch is it's zinc. The metal case isn't *that* much thicker surely?

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darkcruix

12 Oct 2018, 20:14

A while back, I brought up to build feet for the New Model F, comparable to the ones from the original.
Ellipse suggested to use the built-in holes and single feet for each side.
I have created a sample one that has the same height and similar design like the original (the right color needs to be used, of course).
I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

Here's what I have so far:

3D Design:
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Printouts in black:
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