F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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depletedvespene

07 Mar 2019, 11:22

And of course I forgot... but now, thanks to my morning coffee, I remember: there are icon versions planned for Del and Ins... how about Home, Page Up, Page Down and End? Several Model F/M keyboard layouts did sport icon versions of three of those keys (End being the notable exception), so why not add them here as well, the four of them?

In the "nuttier" list of novelties, a fun addition would be the "Fine" key (corresponds to End in the Italian layouts... but anyone can see its allure when it shows up in an English-based keyboard).

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daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

07 Mar 2019, 12:09

Certain layouts (the Canadian French one comes to mind) to mind used the 'fish bone' Page Up/Down keys, and arrows pointing into the corners of the key for home/end:

Image

One of the old favourites around here and Geekhack back in the day was the Rollen (i.e. Scroll Lock) on German keyboards:

Image

I always liked the double-row F keys, Reset, Enter and "Field Exit" key on some of the 5250 Model Ms, then again, that's just me :)

Image

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depletedvespene

07 Mar 2019, 12:11

daedalus wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 12:09
Certain layouts (the Canadian French one comes to mind) to mind used the 'fish bone' Page Up/Down keys, and arrows pointing into the corners of the key for home/end:

Image
This is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for covering for me where my morning coffee did not. :mrgreen:

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daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

07 Mar 2019, 12:31

A similar set of legends are used on the UK layout of Unicomp's Apple keyboard:

Image

(personally I prefer the arrow for both home and end compared with the arrow for home and "Fin" for end on the Quebecois layout)

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Zed

07 Mar 2019, 20:22

morkl wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 09:42
I'll go ahead and suggest 1.75U FN (or Function or Layer 2 or really anything other than Caps Lock) again then, for those of us who prefer to use the Caps Lock slot for something more useful! :ugeek:
We do have a 1.75U Control in the HHKB set.
Hypersphere wrote:
05 Mar 2019, 14:56
A Hyper key would be nice.
What size were you thinking? Keep in mind, and this goes for all the following requests, that I think we stand a better chance of adding 1U keys at this point as jig space for the bigger keys is pretty limited.
TerminalJunkie wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 12:34
My wishlist:
- 1.5u Fn
- 1.5u Caps lock
- 1u Caps lock (maybe just the lock symbol on this one?)
- 1u Super
- 1.5u Super

I love depletedvespene's suggestion for a fuller icon-only add-on set and would buy one.
All are in with the exception of 1U Super at this point.

I will talk about the icons below and with the recent additions of the 4704 and F122 sets, you are at least pretty close to having enough unique 1U keys to do an ortho layout.
depletedvespene wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 11:55
What do I not see in this set of renders and/or what would I add? (laundry list incoming)

ISO: 1.25U left Shift + 1U <> key, ISO Enter key + 1U \| key (I have no doubt this is already considered).
Non-US layouts: AltGR instead of Alt for the RALT key (I have no doubt this is already considered).
Non-stepped 1.75U split right Shift with the accompanying Fn key.
The 1U Tab and Back Tab keys we talked about yesterday (see those blanks on numpad render 1? That's where I'd put them).
Since some people are asking about a 1.75U Fn key, to be placed where Caps Lock goes, how about a 1U "Lock" key? This could well have the legend "Lock" or, perhaps, just the lock icon; the user could program it to produce any/all of Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, Num Lock (and lock the computer as well) according to his tastes.
All of the ISO keys (1.25U Shift, Alt Gr, etc.) should be included with the various language sets. Also, we do have your other requests already (if 1.75U Control w/ HHKB kit is OK instead of Fn) and in addition:

I have added 1U Lock and am leaning towards the icon version only at this point.
depletedvespene wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 01:48
Some people just hate the ⌫ ("Backspace" or "erase to the left", U+232B) and ⌦ ("Delete" or "erase to the right", U+2326) symbols; I like 'em, but do understand they can look really bad if not properly done.
Things get a bit complicated with this one. As I said above, I am not sure how much space is left for larger keys so I don't know if we can work in a 2U and 1.5U ⌫. 1U ⌦ stands a better chance but might not be so useful without the others.

I could use a scan, good pic or some measurements in order to draw this one so if someone could help me out here, I would appreciate it.
depletedvespene wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 11:22
And of course I forgot... but now, thanks to my morning coffee, I remember: there are icon versions planned for Del and Ins... how about Home, Page Up, Page Down and End? Several Model F/M keyboard layouts did sport icon versions of three of those keys (End being the notable exception), so why not add them here as well, the four of them?
I am game for the nav block icons (already drew the 'fish bone' page up and down for the French set) as long as folks agree that the long tail arrow for home and end is the way to go. :)
daedalus wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 12:09
One of the old favourites around here and Geekhack back in the day was the Rollen (i.e. Scroll Lock) on German keyboards:

I always liked the double-row F keys, Reset, Enter and "Field Exit" key on some of the 5250 Model Ms, then again, that's just me :)
Rollen should be included in the German set. Reset and Enter are already in the 4704 set. I like the terminal stuff like Field Exit and such and will try to add a few if we have the room.

The terminal type stuff I have been focusing on lately are the fun icons like those found on Unsavers. Any interest in things like the Print Screen icon, the little a arrows big a, or even the c in a square thing? Insert and delete icons and 1U back tab icon are already in.
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-con ... C_6470.jpg

OK, I think that covers most of the requests. Keep in mind this is all not guaranteed. Just that I will do the artwork and if there is room to work them in you may get your wishes.

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ckafi

07 Mar 2019, 21:24

@Zed I've got a german APL Battleship, so if you need any hi-res pictures of these weird keys just PM me.

Image

Ellipse

08 Mar 2019, 04:01

Update from the factory: the factory has made good progress on the assembly preparation.

They are fully assembling 1 of each keyboard (the 4 keyboard variations compact F62, classic F62, compact F77, classic F77) as a test, along with sending me the spring samples from the newly built attacher machines.

The other good news is that the factory is designing and adapting machines to do most of the assembly work! We are expecting pick and place for the inner foam, barrels to the top inner assembly, flippers/springs, etc. This should rapidly speed up assembly time compared to what would have been assembly by hand.

I have asked for some videos of the semi-automated assembly process in action but here are some prototype shots of one of the assembly machines (not sure which process step).
2019 03 prototyping semi-automated assembly (1).jpg
2019 03 prototyping semi-automated assembly (1).jpg (157.52 KiB) Viewed 2567 times
2019 03 prototyping semi-automated assembly (2).jpg
2019 03 prototyping semi-automated assembly (2).jpg (166.81 KiB) Viewed 2567 times
2019 03 prototyping semi-automated assembly (3).jpg
2019 03 prototyping semi-automated assembly (3).jpg (160.94 KiB) Viewed 2567 times

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darkcruix

08 Mar 2019, 08:55

This is pure excitement - thanks so much for sharing!

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Hypersphere

08 Mar 2019, 22:41

@Zed: Regarding a "Hyper" key, I was thinking of the same size as the bottom-row Ctrl and Alt modifiers. A 1u size would be rather small for a text legend of five characters. Thanks.

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daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

08 Mar 2019, 22:43

The terminal type stuff I have been focusing on lately are the fun icons like those found on Unsavers. Any interest in things like the Print Screen icon, the little a arrows big a, or even the c in a square thing? Insert and delete icons and 1U back tab icon are already in.
I, for one, would be interested in the print screen icon.

Some other inspiration might consist of the Field Mark, Duplicate and Jump keys on the edit block, and the terminal keys on the left hand side. It would be kind of cool to have a 122-key 3270 set, but I don't know how many people would be interested in that aside from myself :)

Image

User avatar
Zed

09 Mar 2019, 19:05

Hypersphere wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 22:41
@Zed: Regarding a "Hyper" key, I was thinking of the same size as the bottom-row Ctrl and Alt modifiers. A 1u size would be rather small for a text legend of five characters. Thanks.
Of course, I should have realized the spacing issue on a 1U key.
daedalus wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 22:43
I, for one, would be interested in the print screen icon.

Some other inspiration might consist of the Field Mark, Duplicate and Jump keys on the edit block, and the terminal keys on the left hand side. It would be kind of cool to have a 122-key 3270 set, but I don't know how many people would be interested in that aside from myself :)
I too would rather spend our key cap budget on terminal type stuff (no offense depletedvespene!).

In other news, I am ready for a job at the bank:
4704 render.png
4704 render.png (687.53 KiB) Viewed 2352 times
Still playing around with the media icons. These are needlessly complicated and more difficult to read than more modern versions but I am trying to draw inspiration from IBM's terminal design language (print screen icon and the front printed symbols on the PF row).

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elecplus

10 Mar 2019, 06:42

Are you guys looking for original IBM terminal keycaps? I have about 50 pounds of them that I could list on my site.

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Hypersphere

10 Mar 2019, 14:33

elecplus wrote:
10 Mar 2019, 06:42
Are you guys looking for original IBM terminal keycaps? I have about 50 pounds of them that I could list on my site.
Wow! IBM caps by the pound! ;)

Yes, might as well list them. Thanks.

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daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

10 Mar 2019, 17:32

Would also be interested

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PhineasRex

13 Mar 2019, 02:34

Ellipse wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 03:49
Yes thanks to Zed the key legend offerings will be expanded!

If anyone wants any customized keys that others may also be interested in, now is the time to post your suggestions! The sublimation template sheets have not yet been finalized.
I would definitely buy a set of the HHKB-style front-printed keys. My dream set would also have:
  • 1U Super key
  • 1.5U Compose key
  • 1.5U Meta key
Last edited by PhineasRex on 30 Mar 2019, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.

Ellipse

14 Mar 2019, 03:44

Factory update - new video from the current assembly phase of the project!

We now have video of the custom Bottom Inner Assembly machine! Here is a video of the machine that properly assembles the bottom inner assembly (F62 ultra compact specifically in this video).

Very cool to watch this in action!
Still waiting on the assembled spring/flipper and keyboard production samples before mass assembly is approved to start. They should go out in the coming days.

Tim

14 Mar 2019, 16:38

Awesome video! Thanks for sharing :-)

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sgtpopwell

15 Mar 2019, 02:18

Awesome update! That's an exciting process to see take place.

Ellipse

17 Mar 2019, 02:17

The factory has completed the samples and they are in the mail!

If the assembled samples meet my standards then mass assembly of Brand New Model F Keyboards will start!

They have also completed another pneumatic spring attacher machine:
2019 03 spring attacher.jpg
2019 03 spring attacher.jpg (458.05 KiB) Viewed 1506 times

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sgtpopwell

17 Mar 2019, 03:54

This is a momentous occasion for sure. Let us hope that the test samples pass muster!

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darkcruix

17 Mar 2019, 08:14

Awesome. Seems like things move on quite well!

mSSM

18 Mar 2019, 15:46

@Ellipse:

I realized I'd like to add some printed keycaps to my order, as well as the repair kit and possibly some extra goodies.

What's the best way of going about doing that without paying extra for shipping etc?

Ellipse

22 Mar 2019, 00:56

mSSM feel free to choose free/other shipping during checkout, unless you are ordering something heavy like a spare case or an additional keyboard.

Ellipse

25 Mar 2019, 05:05

Major Project Milestone - Full Assembly Stage Begins!

After evaluating the latest samples, today I approved full assembly of the Brand New Model F Keyboards! It took a lot more time than expected (!) but I think the current quality of the keyboards has made it well worth ironing out the QC issues.

The plan is for the factory to assemble as many keyboards as possible and ship them at the end of April, with additional batches every month or so. This way, orders can start going out as soon as June.

On the dye sublimation front, I am waiting on some additional replacement parts for the setup before I can continue with the dye sublimation testing. Two more parts require a custom-built solution different from my current setup. Both parts will be ordered in the US to save time. Should be a few more weeks until they are finished and in hand.

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Mattr567

25 Mar 2019, 05:41

Ellipse wrote:
25 Mar 2019, 05:05
Major Project Milestone - Full Assembly Stage Begins!

After evaluating the latest samples, today I approved full assembly of the Brand New Model F Keyboards! It took a lot more time than expected (!) but I think the current quality of the keyboards has made it well worth ironing out the QC issues.

The plan is for the factory to assemble as many keyboards as possible and ship them at the end of April, with additional batches every month or so. This way, orders can start going out as soon as June.

On the dye sublimation front, I am waiting on some additional replacement parts for the setup before I can continue with the dye sublimation testing. Two more parts require a custom-built solution different from my current setup. Both parts will be ordered in the US to save time. Should be a few more weeks until they are finished and in hand.
Finally!

For the first shipment, at what order date would be the cutoff be approximately?

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darkcruix

25 Mar 2019, 09:38

Congratulation!
Looking forward to the next steps - I wonder how it looks, when a container full of keyboards arrives at your doorstep :)

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depletedvespene

25 Mar 2019, 12:13

Nice news!

We now need to know a date for the finalizing of the keycap sets, so we can all go and adjust whatever we ordered to better fit our needs and whims to the new keycaps that are available.

Ellipse

28 Mar 2019, 00:51

Keycaps can still be ordered and added on to existing orders for the time being, but please try to get these in as soon as possible.

Mattr it depends on how many keyboards the factory finishes by the April 30th deadline for the first shipment and how many people order "skip the line"/low/custom serial keyboards from now until then (so far ~162 low serials).

Keyboards can still be upgraded to low serial if you want to skip the line.

To help with everyone's estimations, below is an approximation of the number of keyboards ordered each month through the end of last month - please note that ~162 of these will be prioritized with the first shipment out.

The intention is to ship as closely as possible by order date, earliest first, but with the low serial supporters sent out first.

If they finish 400-500 (maybe too ambitious an estimate!), maybe all the low serials and most of 2016 will finally go out in the April shipment.

2016 369
Jan 77
Feb 87
Mar 17
Apr 9
May 13
Jun 44
Jul 20
Aug 21
Sep 7
Oct 31
Nov 29
Dec 14
2017 608
Jan 34
Feb 22
Mar 18
Apr 29
May 45
Jun 51
Jul 207
Aug 58
Sep 26
Oct 44
Nov 42
Dec 32
2018 508
Jan 35
Feb 42
Mar 50
Apr 43
May 37
Jun 52
Jul 43
Aug 45
Sep 53
Oct 42
Nov 39
Dec 27
2019 68
Jan 36
Feb 23

mSSM

28 Mar 2019, 11:34

@ellipse:

Finally getting around to ordering some extras for my Model F62:
  • First-Aid Kit
  • extra front-printed keys (F-keys and HHKB-style)
  • extra printed keycaps (???)
I am confused about what to order to get some extra printed keycaps. I basically want to be able to use my F62 with both printed and unprinted keys, preferrably in the same color style.

So I have these questions:
  1. The extra set of keys always contains 103 keys, even though I only need 62?
  2. Is there a way to order exactly the same set of keys that I would get pre-installed on the keyboard if I ordered with/without letters? I just want the blank one installed, and the printed one extra.
  3. If I cannot only order 62 keys, can I change my order to have the printed keys pre-installed on the keyboard? I'd then order a blank set of extra keys.
  4. If I order the color pearl/pebble, will the special function keys (I mean Enter, Shift, Ctrl, etc) be darker/industrial grey, similar to the keys displayed on the pictures of the F62 here, https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... kishsaver/?
  5. If I order the color dark grey, does that mean that all keys will come in industrial grey?
Sorry for the hassle. I'd hate to order/pay for extra keys if they'd end up just lying around and not being used.

Ellipse

28 Mar 2019, 13:29

1. Yes
2. Nope
3. The factory will install black imprinted or pearl/pebble printed sets only. Yes I can update an order.
4. Yes they will be pebble
5. Dark gray is all dark gray. The color is different from industrial gray of the cases

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