F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
Zed

31 Mar 2019, 05:09

tron wrote:
31 Mar 2019, 04:48
My bad. I should have looked at the renders a bit closer. It’s better to use the F versions if they have a slightly different style. Unfortunately I don’t have an F122 on hand.

BTW- Thanks for including such cool icons, they really make the board look vintage :ugeek:
I think so too! I have a good scan of the Beamspring solenoid thanks to lot_lizard but finding a good pic of the F version is proving difficult. It wasn't used on all F122s AFAIK and it doesn't seem to be something folks focus on when taking shots of their Battleships. The current version I have drawn up should be fine if better references can't be found but it would be nice to get a better idea of the differences.

User avatar
Wintermute1974
Tessier-Ashpool S.A.

31 Mar 2019, 13:22

Rauha wrote:
30 Mar 2019, 16:51
HSD 10CPI is the living embodiment of crappy Commodore 64 dot matrix printouts of my childhood.
Back in the days of the Commodore 64, it was magical to see the words from your screen turned into a hard copy from a dot matrix printer. The digital world turned physical.

I think 3D-printer users get the same rush now that we did back in the day with 2D paper.

User avatar
daedalus
Buckler Of Springs

31 Mar 2019, 14:47

Zed wrote:
31 Mar 2019, 01:05
Could you point me to a pic of the 'Field Exit' w/ return icon? I have only seen this https://i.redd.it/pv488uza9jq01.jpg version. I think 'Field +' and '-' are good ideas and we have the space so with the blessing of Ellipse, I can add them.
Here are some high res pics (open them in a new tab and you should be able to zoom in):

Image

Image

User avatar
Zed

31 Mar 2019, 15:49

Thanks daedulus! Those will do just fine as a reference. I will see if we can work it in. And thanks to depletedvespene as well for sending me a good dye sub solenoid volume icon pic.

Humanoid

02 Apr 2019, 00:55

Ellipse wrote:
30 Mar 2019, 23:53
No requests so far for Thai.
I requested Thai in this thread.

See page 128 of this thread for more info:
Humanoid wrote:
26 Feb 2019, 07:21
I'd love a set of Thai key caps. Using the Thai Kedmanee layout as found on old IBM model M's.

They take up all the white keys in the main section of the US ANSI keyboard, except the space bar. So that's all the 1u keys plus the backslash key. Which is a total of 47 keys.

My preferred font for the Thai characters would be Microsoft's Arial Unicode MS.

Ellipse

02 Apr 2019, 05:32

Here is a new video of the spring-flipper attachment machine in action!

Mass assembly continues this month.

User avatar
Wintermute1974
Tessier-Ashpool S.A.

02 Apr 2019, 05:39

These are exciting times. Thanks for the video, Ellipse.

User avatar
constexpr

02 Apr 2019, 20:47

Does the split LShift add-on come with these keys
Image
or these keys?
Image
I think I relied on them being the latter in my order.

Also, I'm glad to see that the factory's ironed out the issues with the spring attaching machines.

Edit: On a side note, the 9/PgUp key in numpad options #4 and #5 doesn't need to be purchased separately since it's the same as the regular 9/PgUp numpad key that's included in the base set. You might wanna correct this as it'll save your buyers a couple of bucks (they can buy another extra key in its place).

User avatar
Zed

02 Apr 2019, 22:12

constexpr wrote:
02 Apr 2019, 20:47
Does the split LShift add-on come with these keys
Image
or these keys?
Image
I think I relied on them being the latter in my order.

Also, I'm glad to see that the factory's ironed out the issues with the spring attaching machines.

Edit: On a side note, the 9/PgUp key in numpad options #4 and #5 doesn't need to be purchased separately since it's the same as the regular 9/PgUp numpad key that's included in the base set. You might wanna correct this as it'll save your buyers a couple of bucks (they can buy another extra key in its place).
The icon only is the standard legend for the 1.25U Shift key and the icon + text is an add-on.

Thanks as well for the heads up on the duplicate num pad key.

Ellipse

02 Apr 2019, 23:47

constexpr confirmed you and Zed are correct split left shift is Icon only by default, to keep in line with the Model M ISO layout.

Updated on the key requirements counts.

samuelcable

02 Apr 2019, 23:49

Ellipse wrote:
02 Apr 2019, 23:47
constexpr confirmed you and Zed are correct split left shift is Icon only by default, to keep in line with the Model M ISO layout.

Updated on the key requirements counts.
thank god

yac

03 Apr 2019, 08:37

Zed wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 19:24
...and any last minute additions are welcome.
I do feel i'm being a bit spoiled here, but being a mac user with two keyboards on order, it would be real neat if the legends for the Mac Command key would be "cmd ⌘" and alt would be:

alt


Image

Come to think of it, it'd be neat if Caps Lock was "⇪".

:)

edit: Changed my mind re Control -> ctrl. Because i realised there'll be a bunch of other capitalized words on the board.

Rauha

03 Apr 2019, 10:38

yac wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 08:37


edit: Changed my mind re Control -> ctrl. Because i realised there'll be a bunch of other capitalized words on the board.
:(
Fully written Control is the best control (from 1996 Lexmark, Latin american spanish ISO).


Image

planedrop

03 Apr 2019, 18:29

Definitely feeling SSD 12 CPI myself for the packing slip font. I like them all though. Maybe we should start an online straw pole or something so users can vote? I imagine keeping track of them in forum posts is a bit of a time suck.

User avatar
depletedvespene

03 Apr 2019, 20:39

Rauha wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 10:38
yac wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 08:37


edit: Changed my mind re Control -> ctrl. Because i realised there'll be a bunch of other capitalized words on the board.
:(
Fully written Control is the best control (from 1996 Lexmark, Latin american spanish ISO).
I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment (especially since there is no agreed upon icon that represents "Control"), but...
Rauha wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 10:38
Image
That keyboard is certainly not a Spanish (Latin America) keyboard (or any other Spanish layout). This one, however, is:


M-ES-LA.jpg
The, like, former best layout in the world (was the best until October 2018, though).
M-ES-LA.jpg (310.21 KiB) Viewed 1604 times

User avatar
Zed

04 Apr 2019, 01:21

yac wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 08:37
Zed wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 19:24
...and any last minute additions are welcome.
I do feel i'm being a bit spoiled here, but being a mac user with two keyboards on order, it would be real neat if the legends for the Mac Command key would be "cmd ⌘" and alt would be:

alt


Image

Come to think of it, it'd be neat if Caps Lock was "⇪".

:)

edit: Changed my mind re Control -> ctrl. Because i realised there'll be a bunch of other capitalized words on the board.
Along the lines of your last edit, I would propose that going all lower case on 'cmd' and 'alt' would be a bit too 'Apple' and wouldn't really match the style of the rest of the keys. I think that something like option A would be a better fit. Even C is getting pretty far from the way IBM placed the icons and words on mod keys.
Apple Icon keys.PNG
Apple Icon keys.PNG (4.2 KiB) Viewed 1549 times
We should have room to add a few keys while keeping the Apple set as is. There also is a spot that we can work in the '⇪' icon shift key as well pending approval from Ellipse.

Edit: The '⇪' icon is caps lock not shift, of course. :oops:
Last edited by Zed on 04 Apr 2019, 03:23, edited 1 time in total.

Ellipse

04 Apr 2019, 01:35

Yes the mac symbols should be ok to add but I would make them a bit larger per yac's photo. Yes ok to add the mac shift icon as a separate key not included in the mac set as long as there's room.

User avatar
Zed

04 Apr 2019, 02:06

Yep, I'll scale the icons to match the shift arrow, caps lock, etc. We have room in the icon set for all 3 keys as well.

User avatar
depletedvespene

04 Apr 2019, 02:48

constexpr wrote:
02 Apr 2019, 20:47
Edit: On a side note, the 9/PgUp key in numpad options #4 and #5 doesn't need to be purchased separately since it's the same as the regular 9/PgUp numpad key that's included in the base set. You might wanna correct this as it'll save your buyers a couple of bucks (they can buy another extra key in its place).
Buuuut... what if I want to have that key duplicated, so I'll have a full set for the nav cluster either way? (I mean, my M50 is looking at me with that "I wanna sport a numpad, too!" look)

User avatar
depletedvespene

04 Apr 2019, 02:50

Zed wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 01:21
There also is a spot that we can work in the '⇪' icon shift key as well pending approval from Ellipse.
Count me in on that one.

bleair

04 Apr 2019, 07:15

How practical is to think a solenoid could be added into this keyboard?

I recently tried a beamspring keyboard with the solenoid and both the noise and the physical feedback of it activating as I typed was really nice.

Rauha

04 Apr 2019, 13:10

depletedvespene wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 20:39

That keyboard is certainly not a Spanish (Latin America) keyboard (or any other Spanish layout).

The Control key -that I was talking about- is from Spanish (Latin America) Model M.



(most of other keys are from a 1986 IBM Wheelwriter with finnish/swedish layout)

User avatar
depletedvespene

04 Apr 2019, 13:20

Rauha wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 13:10
depletedvespene wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 20:39

That keyboard is certainly not a Spanish (Latin America) keyboard (or any other Spanish layout).
The Control key -that I was talking about- is from Spanish (Latin America) Model M.



(most of other keys are from a 1986 IBM Wheelwriter with finnish/swedish layout)
Oooooh, a hybrid. :mrgreen:


That said, I can confirm that BOTH main Spanish layouts ("Spanish (Spain)" and "Spanish (Latin America)" use the legend «Control» instead of «Ctrl». I'm gonna double check this evening, for OCD's sake, but generally speaking, ALL text legends are the same in both; the differences between them are restricted to the alphanums in the main alphanum block.

Ellipse

05 Apr 2019, 01:07

bleair, I believe that solenoids can be added to this keyboard with the use of the xwhatsit solenoid driver (possibly available from orihalcon) and a compatible solenoid. There is certainly enough space in the classic style zinc cases for these extras.

Ellipse

06 Apr 2019, 02:37

Here is an update on the languages/layouts requested for the 1,595 keyboards ordered so far (5 away from 1,600!). Some of the less common sets will be provided by Unicomp most likely.

If you'd like to switch your layout please let me know over email/PM.

If you'd like to review the expected specifics of your key set please see this page on Unicomp's web site: https://support.pckeyboard.com/knowledg ... category=2

Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout) 1174
Black unprinted keys 132
Regular color blank keys (no lettering/legends) 113
Use your own keys 43
Custom/TBD 8

International Layouts:
UK 45
Swedish-Finnish 26
German 17
Norwegian 10
French 6
Swiss German 3
Latin American Spanish 3
JIS (Unicomp) 2
Danish 2
APL Keys (Unicomp) 2
Spanish 1
Turkish-Q 1
Hebrew English 1
Russian 1
Korean 1
Swiss 1
Dutch 1
Brazilian ABNT 1
Arabic 1
Grand Total 1595

User avatar
PhineasRex

06 Apr 2019, 23:48

I added some of the nice new keycaps to my order. Really looking forward to getting my hands on this excellent keyboard ☺

Jean-Loup

10 Apr 2019, 09:13

Can I ask a really silly question ? Is it possible to place the backspace key 1 key position to the left, and place the delete key at the extreme right position --- shifting all the numbers a place to the left, with number 1 directly over Tab ?

Ellipse

10 Apr 2019, 14:00

Yes that can be done yourself after your new Model F arrives! Unfortunately that is not a factory default option.

Jean-Loup

10 Apr 2019, 17:52

That sounds great! I will definitely try that layout once the keyboard arrives. Two more questions :

(1) I've seen a really cool looking keycap on this thread, but was unsure if Zed was designing it and if so how to purchase it -- I think it was referred to as the `rub out' key; a lowercase letter `a' with a manuscript `remove' curly going through it. Is that going to make the cut, and if so, how do I purchase?

(2) Is there anything planned either official or non-official as an add-on, like a plate, that would cap the right hand numpad in such a way that only the top two rows of keys would show, and the arrow cluster on the bottom?

User avatar
Zed

10 Apr 2019, 18:46

Jean-Loup wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 17:52

(1) I've seen a really cool looking keycap on this thread, but was unsure if Zed was designing it and if so how to purchase it -- I think it was referred to as the `rub out' key; a lowercase letter `a' with a manuscript `remove' curly going through it. Is that going to make the cut, and if so, how do I purchase?
I have been calling the 'rub out' key 'Delete'. It is currently represented by the 'Del Icon' key in the Icons set. There is also a version in the Terminal set with the 'aaa' and delete swoop (Delete word) printed on the front. Sorry for the confusion, a render with the actual artwork will be coming (hopefully) shortly.

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