F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Wazrach

24 Dec 2019, 18:44

There's something extra attractive about the drab colours and lack of keycap legends. So, so pretty.

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darkspider

29 Dec 2019, 09:35

Do some of items ordered with the early bird tooling volunteer remain to be shipped?

troglotype

29 Dec 2019, 15:38

Ellipse wrote:
20 Dec 2019, 23:35
Again for everyone I will reiterate that each keyboard will only go out after my QC process and the keyboards will take as long as they need to be done the right way. My current expectation is about six months more for all prior orders.
I am happy to wait for another year if this gives you the time you need to ship only keyboards you consider perfect. And I guess many people on here feel the same.

Rauha

30 Dec 2019, 15:41

Ellipse wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 18:18
The first ISO Model F went out last week - this one had the 1U+1.75U split right shift, which is built in to all ANSI and ISO F62/F77 keyboards.
So I will have to get Model M horizontal stabiliser and regular right shift key, if I want standard right shift for my ISO F77?

Ellipse

31 Dec 2019, 00:30

ISO is available in regular right shift and split right shift, but you can not switch between regular and HHKB style split right shift on any keyboard (requires different parts).

nickg

01 Jan 2020, 20:50

Its happening! Oh the hype is building!

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abrahamstechnology

01 Jan 2020, 20:54

Ellipse wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 02:51
Today's update - Notch's keyboard is shipping!
The Notch???

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depletedvespene

02 Jan 2020, 02:34

abrahamstechnology wrote:
01 Jan 2020, 20:54
Ellipse wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 02:51
Today's update - Notch's keyboard is shipping!
The Notch???
"The" Notch is known to like Model M keyboards, so it stands to reason that it should be him.

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abrahamstechnology

02 Jan 2020, 04:59

Nice.

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darkcruix

02 Jan 2020, 10:08

OT, but as it is happening this year: Wish you all a fantastic 2020 and an exciting time!

consensual-penis

03 Jan 2020, 19:44

Really thinking about ordering a compact case and repair kit

kmnov2017

03 Jan 2020, 21:06

Has anyone done a video review of these yet ?

Ellipse

03 Jan 2020, 22:50

Someone posted a quick sound test over on the Geekhack project thread but everyone please do let me know as video and text reviews come out as I may miss them otherwise.

Even though there is strong protective packaging, Model F springs are often dislodged during shipping which can result in a bad click sound or no click at all, and keys (and sometimes springs) may need to be reseated. I have found that carefully removing and flipping the spring upside down can fix most spring issues, and replacing the spring with another spring is a last resort.

If you like the characteristics of the original Model F, I think you'll like the new Model F!

8 more keyboards went out today, bringing the total to 25 so far.

Based on the current variations shipped, Black keys will no longer be able to ship early (most of them are in the second batch arriving in a couple months). There are many pearl/pebble sets for most variations in the first shipment (happy to switch you to the standard colors key set if needed).
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Ellipse

05 Jan 2020, 03:23

There were some xwhatsit related issues recently brought up and resolved over on the geekhack project thread that I thought would help DT members as well. Below is my full xwhatsit firmware-related instructions which will be part of the upcoming Model F manual:

The extra typed characters is a result of the debounce filter as well as the voltage threshold.

Agreed that the keyboard needs to reach room temperature and should be unplugged and plugged back in after warming up.

First I would flash the alternative debounce filter threshold 6 (uploaded in the below link). In some of the keyboards I flashed threshold 11 which turned out to be not enough to prevent the extra characters.

Then I would set the voltage threshold to 126 for any F62 and 122 for any F77. Click store to EEPROM (auto-voltage does not work for some reason). Then set column skips 9 to 15 for F62 and 11 to 15 for the F77. Click store to EEPROM.

Link to layout files and updated firmware: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/code/

To install the firmware using Windows (I don't know about the other OS installation procedures), after assembly you would install atmel flip, plug in the USB on the controller and plug it into the computer, then go to device manager, right click the "Atmel" device, click have disk, go to the Atmel Flip installation folder, allow searching subfolders, and install the driver, then load atmel Flip 3.4.7, click the chip icon "select a target device" and pick atmega32U2, click OK, then click the USB icon, click USB, click Open, then click File, Load HEX file and select Joc's firmware hex file (alternative debounce threshold 6), then click run. After it says verified/pass then unplug the cable, wait 10 seconds, plug it back in, wait another 10 seconds, then open xwhatsit's newest version of the GUI (0.9.0?) and if it opens then you were successful!

If you have never installed atmel firmware before on your current computer installation, you need to open the xwhatsit software utility, click tools - enter GUI bootloader, click Yes, and then do the above Control Panel - Devices and Printers for the Unknown device.

unplug and plug in again if not detected first time after flashing

if can't install, can also try shorting PROG on the xwhatsit controller and keeping it shorted, then connecting it to USB, wait 1-2 seconds MAXIMUM, then release prog. will cause error device descriptor failed if you hold it too long

Ellipse

06 Jan 2020, 05:41

5 more keyboards are shipping tomorrow, bringing the total to 30 so far.

segacontroller

06 Jan 2020, 19:03

Not trying to be toxic or add stress, but can we provide assistance? Is there something this community can do?

Napkin math...

Current rate shows 1700 days to completion of early bird round. An 800+% increase in shipping rate is needed to complete early bird round before January 2021 (200+ keyboards not going out until 11 months in the future). From all stated plans, we still have the blue box round incoming as well.

Understanding that holidays, QC process evolving, new issue troubleshooting that will shorten time of future shipments, etc... Can we help?

Ellipse

07 Jan 2020, 04:39

Yes sega, if I had a bunch of people helping me after the key sublimation process is all set things could go much faster. There is a ~30 step quality control/order fulfillment process. Each keyboard may end up taking 15-20 minutes down the line for those steps. More people can of course increase throughput. I wouldn't extrapolate the current progress for the reasons I posted a few weeks or so ago (technical/administrative issues, time to identify each keyboard (was not done in the best manner by the factory but they are labeling each box for the second shipment of the early bird round), etc.

I was recently discussing part of the above quality control process along with possible caveats to reviewing any Model F keyboard and thought I'd share my notes:

I'd recommend emphasizing that some users may require changing settings on the xwhatsit controller or there will be problems like keys not registering or key "spamming" - plus I'd note that problems like non-clicking keys and a sometimes bad buzzing key sound upon actuation are easily fixable by the user, just like on the originals (I'll be making videos at some point to show how to fix the various issues with Model F keyboards in general). Nearly all of the dozens of the original F's I've restored over the past 5 years (XT, AT, F104 Unsaver, F107, F122) have had some key issues like buzzing or requiring to re-seat the keys but those who are new to the world of Model F may not realize that.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to the correct Model F sound but I've had to replace or reseat a few springs on each keyboard so far. Others may be even more sensitive and may require some adjustment by the end user (I've asked others to listen in a silent room and they could not reliably tell the difference between good and not as good).

I believe that the nice space bar thud sound (and minimizing rattle) is highly contingent on the proper placement of the metal tabs - with the placement as a constant, bending the stabilizer wire slightly away from the metal tab ends results in a more rattly space bar with a lighter actuation force that some people prefer (more like many original F122's), while pushing too much towards the metal tab ends can slightly increase actuation force for the space bar. Optimally the back of the metal tab should touch the space bar stabilizer wire or have a slight amount of space between wire and back of tab. With the current finished production round one can bend the space bar wire to get a better sound. The factory expects to stamp the holes for the metal tabs with a CNC type machine for improved accuracy with the final round towards the end of this year.

Ellipse

07 Jan 2020, 06:10

Another newly photographed variation that was mailed out:
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Khers

07 Jan 2020, 08:33

I've received my tracking number; my keyboard is in transit!

It's happening.gif

Inb4 the parcel spends a month in customs.

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darkcruix

07 Jan 2020, 20:10

Ellipse,
happy to help wherever I can. Sadly I am based in the EU and shipping things back and forth is not something that would make sense (just to QA them).
At least, I've ordered multiple versions of each model variation and a ton of spare parts. So I could at least be a small proxy, once I have my orders to support you from a EU perspective. I also have multiple original Model F's available to verify things. (F107, Battleship etc)
Not that this would speed up the testing process :(
If anybody has ideas, how we can support Ellipse from near and far ... keep them coming.

kmnov2017

07 Jan 2020, 21:20

One way would be to ship out keyboards directly from China to different folks in geographies who’d assemble and ship out locally to the end customers. Of course that would mean that ellipse will need to ship the dye sub keycaps to these geography representatives.

This will probably save shipping costs to end customers...

Just a thought....

Mimon

07 Jan 2020, 22:04

Ellipse,

I'm a relative newcomer to the keyboard community, but I'm happy to help if you'd like some extra hands for certain aspects of assembly. I'm based out of NYC, so I'm geographically closer to the address listed for Model F Labs LLC than others might be.

If at some point you decide to seek out volunteers to share with the workload, feel free to drop me a line.

kmnov2017

07 Jan 2020, 22:29

Khers wrote:
07 Jan 2020, 08:33
I've received my tracking number; my keyboard is in transit!

It's happening.gif

Inb4 the parcel spends a month in customs.
Don’t forget a video review...

Ellipse

08 Jan 2020, 04:23

17 packages are shipping! All the key testing and replacement was done over the weekend and it still took about 5-6 hours of work today, not counting the key testing - about 15-20 minutes per keyboard.

Thanks Mimon - that would be great. The more the better - maybe on a few Saturdays once I have a backlog of sublimated key sets a bunch of orders can go out if a few people can help.

From today's group:
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Cubelia

08 Jan 2020, 05:21

It's happening! My tracking number shows the package finally arrived in Taoyuan International Airport(I live in Taiwan) and hopefully I can get the package before the weekend. Will write a review in Chinese and English along with pics.
Thank you Ellipse and everyone that made this possible!

kmnov2017

08 Jan 2020, 11:34

Cubelia wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 05:21
It's happening! My tracking number shows the package finally arrived in Taoyuan International Airport(I live in Taiwan) and hopefully I can get the package before the weekend. Will write a review in Chinese and English along with pics.
Thank you Ellipse and everyone that made this possible!
And a video if possible....

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0100010

08 Jan 2020, 15:11

One of those images, looks like the one on it's way to me now...

daijoubu

08 Jan 2020, 16:10

Just wanted to express how excited I was to receive the unit. By stroke of luck I happen to find myself in the States for business, and Eclipse was kind to arrange for my unit to be shipped while I'm staying here. Of course I had the low serial add on, and I had to opt for it to be shipped without keys. It made sense as it cost me more to have it shipped all the way to Asia, and risk it being potentially taxed upon entering.

I brought my own Model M keys to use temporarily while awaiting for the dye-sub keys to be completed.
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I didn't have the time to set it up yet, as I do not have a laptop capable of connecting to it (locked company laptop :cry:). The keypresses are great, and as Eclipse remarked, some flipper may be unseated, so if the keycaps don't feel right or are making excessive pings, then remove the keycap, shake or wriggle the springs to reseat the flippers and it'll be fine.

Also, if you are opt-ing to use your own keycaps, do ask for the stabiliser inserts to be included. I forgotten about that, so I'll need to use my Model M's first.

Typing wise, I do not have a Model F to compare with, so I can only compare with my Model M. Overall keypress is lighter, more crisp, very nice to type on. This will replace my Model M as my daily driver moving forward. Packaging's attention to detail is appreciated, more than enough to protect the contents for rough shipping, as well as having nostalgia inducing features :D

All in all, I congratulate Eclipse for a job well done, as a former mechanical design engineer that has both participated in design, sourcing, supplier development & management in a large TEAM setting, for Eclipse to pull this off as accurately and as well as the final product indicates, (with help of course from various people) but mostly by himself, is a very large undertaking which I think he did it very well.

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subcat

09 Jan 2020, 02:12

Received shipping information today, 2018/02 order date. super excited!

John Doe

09 Jan 2020, 03:27

subcat wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 02:12
Received shipping information today, 2018/02 order date. super excited!
Was the shipping info from the mail left when placing an order?

I remembered i left email address and reddit account both, but reddit suspended my account permanently for no reason, thats shit.

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