F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

John Doe

14 May 2020, 17:40

I start regretting for not ordering a set of ellipse caps, have to slaughter some from a GE model M, but not that good as the new blue. Maybe I should place another order for caps lonely? Any advice, guys?
2D7673F5-D955-4298-BB34-F539F31DB6AC.jpeg
2D7673F5-D955-4298-BB34-F539F31DB6AC.jpeg (2.25 MiB) Viewed 1413 times

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tentator

14 May 2020, 19:22

I've got the labelless ones from ellipse and must admit they seem, if possible, superior to originals in terms of sound and feeling.. so also considering a caps set only here!

Ellipse

16 May 2020, 04:14

Nice photo John Doe! A rare key set too!

A few people were asking about solenoids - a Deskthority user has added a solenoid to his Brand New Model F Classic Case Keyboard.

The challenge is to find a good solenoid and a solenoid driver board. GH/DT user Orihalcon was selling these but not sure if there are any left.

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=23707&p=462600&hilit=f62#p462600

I saw this solenoid as a suggestion a while back - not sure if it is a good option: https://www.ebay.com/itm/0837L-06K-6V-0 ... 1967978003

kmnov2017

16 May 2020, 23:59

Ellipse wrote:
16 May 2020, 04:14
...A few people were asking about solenoids - a Deskthority user has added a solenoid to his Brand New Model F Classic Case Keyboard.

The challenge is to find a good solenoid and a solenoid driver board. ...
If you buy a 5/6 V solenoid, you dont even need a solenoid driver, just a cheap relay or a transistor with serve your needs...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23048&p=462804&hili ... id#p462804

daphnis

17 May 2020, 21:29

I can't find any brightness-up or -down button in the layout utility. Is it possible to get these keys?

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Muirium
µ

17 May 2020, 21:33

As far as I know: no. They are not included in the USB keyboard standard. (Annoyingly, as volume up and down are!) On the Mac, I just map the two brightness functions to F1 and F2 in System Preferences and use those on my Kishsaver and other keyboards.

Ellipse

17 May 2020, 21:38

kmnov2017 has anyone gotten that workaround working with the xwhatsit controller?

kmnov2017

17 May 2020, 21:54

Ellipse wrote:
17 May 2020, 21:38
kmnov2017 has anyone gotten that workaround working with the xwhatsit controller?
I don't know, but its so straightforward I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

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zetaomegagon

17 May 2020, 23:17

Hello all,

I'm new here, and have recently arrived on the capacitive buckling spring scene as well, with my newly arrived F62 Kishsaver (I'd post pics, but my phone is a potato).

I've just applied pandrew's patches, but I'm wondering about the progress of the QMK port.

I'm def willing to slap QMK on my board if y'all need more testers. :duck:

Kudos to pandrew,webwit, and tentator for thier contributions so far! :D

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zrrion

17 May 2020, 23:57

Muirium wrote:
17 May 2020, 21:33
As far as I know: no. They are not included in the USB keyboard standard. (Annoyingly, as volume up and down are!)
The more I learn about the USB standard the more I hate it. At least there are software solutions

consensual-penis

18 May 2020, 03:31

I'm so hyped to get my keyboard, I'm typing on my xt wishing I didn't have to deal with the layout of it.

Soon.

daijoubu

18 May 2020, 13:01

I have been testing pandrew and tentator's QMK firmware and they are a joy to use. Fixes with the drifting problem, and so far it has been smooth sailing. I'd say when this is finalized and ported over, software woes with the capsense should be all but eliminated (fingers crossed).

PS: tentator told me about the legend that is pandrew and his contribution to porting this to QMK. I cannot stress how much their collective contribution will help this keyboard move to greater heights.
Now we can have the best of both worlds, a faithfully reproduced, mechanical marvel of a keyboard designed during the peak of IBM mechanical design (ok fine it's one step below the beamspring touch wise but hey, it's much more hardy so let's take that), and now combined with modern usability and customizability (is that even a word) :D

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Bass

18 May 2020, 13:50

Just wanted to stop by to say that I am pretty excited to see all the progress that has been happening with this project recently, including the effort that has been made to port QMK to xwhatsit.

I have not actually used a keyboard with QMK, but the feature that excites me most is the automatic calibration, which is something that I would find useful not only for the Model F reproductions being made from this project, but also on other existing keyboards with xwhatsit controllers like beamsprings. Historically I have had many issues getting the voltage just right for my 3278 (yes, I know that not every beamspring owner has these issues, but mine is particularly sensitive), so I am curious if those of you who are currently testing and developing the port have tested it with a beamspring. On a related note, has any testing been done with solenoids? I see from the QMK documentation that solenoids are supported, but it seems like the extend and retract times are compile time constants, which would be a bit inconvenient given that these can be changed in real time with the capsense GUI utility.

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Muirium
µ

18 May 2020, 14:13

I too have a very picky 3278. In fact, I had two for a while (sold the rusty one to Seebart) and I thought it was just condition that was to blame. Nope. Apparently some beam springs just aren’t friendly to a single threshold value, which is all that Xwhatsit ever supported. And two of them came my way!

Glad my Kishsaver was much better behaved. But still less than perfect. Similar experience in my Xwhatsit equipped AT: sometimes it just has a freak out and the only option is to put it away to have a sulk.

As for compile time vs. runtime options: true. But auto calibration is so much more vital than dickering with solenoid release values. The latter is just the kind of thing you can find one value to stick with long term! Though, yes, finding it by rebuilding over and over will be a bugger.

What I’d love is some prebuilt binaries to flash onto these Xwhatsit’s. Tentator’s been giving me help but I just stare at the build environment and know it’s vitally important that I *not* use this thing!

A way to submit our Xwhatsit GUI save files (the app has a text export feature) for building into final hex files to flash the controller would be welcome indeed!
Last edited by Muirium on 18 May 2020, 14:30, edited 2 times in total.

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tentator

18 May 2020, 14:26

I'm equally excited with this progresses here, again thanks to andrei, thanks also to who is testing it to confirm the algorithm is good, like daijoubu that previously had calibration issues at least once per day and now they seem gone. I was sure, since I tested external electromagnetic interference with a power drill at 2cm from my F62, so it must be!! :)
Also thanks to webwit for contributing with some xwhatsit controllers he could spare/lend to further test and improve: maybe this week it would be possible to start testing also on 3278 beamsprings if QMK behaves well also there.. surely solenoids should be much easier and secondary priority task as well then, no worries in that regards I'd say..

Kr,
tent:wq

daijoubu

18 May 2020, 14:28

Just to share a layout I've made with the QMK.
My current layout is with 2 extra keys coming from split space bar + split right shift
qmk layout.JPG
qmk layout.JPG (109.29 KiB) Viewed 760 times

consensual-penis

18 May 2020, 22:24

Has someone or will someone make a visual configurator for these boards?

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depletedvespene

18 May 2020, 22:29

consensual-penis wrote:
18 May 2020, 22:24
Has someone or will someone make a visual configurator for these boards?
If QMK support becomes good enough, the people in charge of QMK Configurator will surely waste no time in adding support to the F62/F77 boards.

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tentator

18 May 2020, 23:24

Well the Screenshot above comes from the one pandrei is currently running yeah... Works great ;)

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zetaomegagon

19 May 2020, 00:03

What do I need to do to try out the QMK port?

Is there a repo I can clone?

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t8c

19 May 2020, 14:08

Joined. Very excited!

daphnis

19 May 2020, 15:34

daijoubu wrote:
18 May 2020, 14:28
Just to share a layout I've made with the QMK.
My current layout is with 2 extra keys coming from split space bar + split right shift
How does the small space bar and the extra modifier fit?
(Ellipse said there would be a tight fit.) You got them from
Unicomp, right?

daphnis

19 May 2020, 15:35

Muirium wrote:
17 May 2020, 21:33
As far as I know: no. They are not included in the USB keyboard standard. (Annoyingly, as volume up and down are!) On the Mac, I just map the two brightness functions to F1 and F2 in System Preferences and use those on my Kishsaver and other keyboards.
So the key menu, which I had assumed to be arbitrarily limited to a subset of possible keys, is actually exhaustive?

daphnis

19 May 2020, 15:51

daphnis wrote:
19 May 2020, 15:34
daijoubu wrote:
18 May 2020, 14:28
Just to share a layout I've made with the QMK.
My current layout is with 2 extra keys coming from split space bar + split right shift
How does the small space bar and the extra modifier fit?
(Ellipse said there would be a tight fit.) You got them from
Unicomp, right?
Nevermind, I found the old picture.

daijoubu

19 May 2020, 16:58

daphnis wrote:
19 May 2020, 15:34
daijoubu wrote:
18 May 2020, 14:28
Just to share a layout I've made with the QMK.
My current layout is with 2 extra keys coming from split space bar + split right shift
How does the small space bar and the extra modifier fit?
(Ellipse said there would be a tight fit.) You got them from
Unicomp, right?
Yes and I think I got the wrong spacebar length (it is too long by just a couple of mm or 0.25u).
How i fixed it is to use a 1.25u key, cut the original stem off, and glue a new stem in the right position to make it fit (as the original 1.25u stem will not fit correctly into the hole).

You can avoid my mistake by buying the right space bar, which unfortunately I am not too sure which is the right one. What I know is I bought the Small Pearl - Post 7/2013 and that is the wrong one. I reckon the Small Pearl - Pre 7/2013 may the correct one, but someone that has bought it needs to confirm. I also think the additional key needs to be a 1.5u like the Ctrl key.

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FXT
XT

19 May 2020, 20:42

consensual-penis wrote:
18 May 2020, 03:31
I'm so hyped to get my keyboard, I'm typing on my xt wishing I didn't have to deal with the layout of it.

Soon.
I dunno, it's kinda nice with a bit of remapping. I might be a bit biased though.

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AlpsComeback

19 May 2020, 20:50

Do we know where we should message Ellipse if we want our keycaps and keyboard shipped separately?

troglotype

19 May 2020, 23:11

AlpsComeback wrote:
19 May 2020, 20:50
Do we know where we should message Ellipse if we want our keycaps and keyboard shipped separately?
I sent him a private message here. He replied within the day.

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AlpsComeback

19 May 2020, 23:29

troglotype wrote:
19 May 2020, 23:11
AlpsComeback wrote:
19 May 2020, 20:50
Do we know where we should message Ellipse if we want our keycaps and keyboard shipped separately?
I sent him a private message here. He replied within the day.
Ooof alright, I also sent him a message here last Monday (the 11th) but no response yet.

troglotype

20 May 2020, 01:45

AlpsComeback wrote:
19 May 2020, 23:29
troglotype wrote:
19 May 2020, 23:11
AlpsComeback wrote:
19 May 2020, 20:50
Do we know where we should message Ellipse if we want our keycaps and keyboard shipped separately?
I sent him a private message here. He replied within the day.
Ooof alright, I also sent him a message here last Monday (the 11th) but no response yet.
You can also try through the email address on https://www.modelfkeyboards.com

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