F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Admiral

24 Aug 2020, 16:34

tentator wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 08:36
You can configure n-key rollover in qmk.. It's disabled by default to make keyboards compatible also with older BIOSes.. But I agree that it does not make much sense as a default...
Thanks for letting us know, so I take it I would need the latest QMK software to change this setting then? I don't think the software comes with the keyboard right?

I enjoy using the keyboard the more I use it - really is a great daily driver. Maybe someday in the future he will remake the F107 and the F50 as a macropad.

OxC0FFEE

24 Aug 2020, 18:02

Zcool31 wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 22:53
Now in 60% size:
render_60_alpha2.png

Also I can finally control the line thickness in proportion to resolution, so scaling pictures up won't result in thin-looking lines.
Next step - orthographic projection.

Some places where my guesses are particularly bad are the radius of the back plate, and the angle of the key cap. That is, suppose I somehow flattened the back plate and barrel plate. What would be the angle between the top of the keycap and the table upon which my now flat barrel plate lays?
These are great! Do you have any with the split backspace as well?

Zcool31

24 Aug 2020, 21:07

BucklingSprings wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 19:22
...
My Unicomp sometimes chatters on 'M' key presses and the Matias for the 'J' key. Nothing tooooo bad - but it is aggravating if it happens twice in a row.

After more than 10 weeks of intense use, my F77 has no such problem. And even _if_ such a problem
developed, I am not helpless because it is maintainable - both its software and its hardware.
...
My Unicomp started chattering on the function key row after ~7 years. At least the lack of rivets and individually replaceable barrels will make this easier to fix on the Model F.

Zcool31

24 Aug 2020, 21:18

OxC0FFEE wrote:
24 Aug 2020, 18:02
These are great! Do you have any with the split backspace as well?
render_60_alpha3.png
render_60_alpha3.png (387.42 KiB) Viewed 1416 times

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darkspider

25 Aug 2020, 14:39

Has anybody tried to equip a vintage solenoid with QMK firmware?
Though it's recognized by controller and clicks, it only works when I press the keys very very slowly, otherwise, most of the inputs are ignored even if I minimize dwell time.
Any idea to fix this, or QMK doesn't support vintage solenoids from old model Fs?

User avatar
darkcruix

25 Aug 2020, 14:47

darkspider wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 14:39
Has anybody tried to equip a vintage solenoid with QMK firmware?
Though it's recognized by controller and clicks, it only works when I press the keys very very slowly, otherwise, most of the inputs are ignored even if I minimize dwell time.
Any idea to fix this, or QMK doesn't support vintage solenoids from old model Fs?
Hi darkspider, I have a solenoid from a BeamSpring and it works fine (I don't think you are using a beeper from the 4704 models?! so I post my config).

My config.h

Code: Select all

#pragma once
#define TAPPING_TERM 200
#define TAPPING_TOGGLE 2
#define SOLENOID_MIN_DWELL 40
#define SOLENOID_MAX_DWELL 80
My rules.mk

Code: Select all

TAP_DANCE_ENABLE = yes
HAPTIC_ENABLE += SOLENOID
In my keymap I have set ESC in layer 1 to HPT_TOG, so I can turn it on or off.

User avatar
darkspider

25 Aug 2020, 15:16

Thank you for the information.
I'm using one from 3178, and will try the code.
darkcruix wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 14:47
darkspider wrote:
25 Aug 2020, 14:39
Has anybody tried to equip a vintage solenoid with QMK firmware?
Though it's recognized by controller and clicks, it only works when I press the keys very very slowly, otherwise, most of the inputs are ignored even if I minimize dwell time.
Any idea to fix this, or QMK doesn't support vintage solenoids from old model Fs?
Hi darkspider, I have a solenoid from a BeamSpring and it works fine (I don't think you are using a beeper from the 4704 models?! so I post my config).

My config.h

Code: Select all

#pragma once
#define TAPPING_TERM 200
#define TAPPING_TOGGLE 2
#define SOLENOID_MIN_DWELL 40
#define SOLENOID_MAX_DWELL 80
My rules.mk

Code: Select all

TAP_DANCE_ENABLE = yes
HAPTIC_ENABLE += SOLENOID
In my keymap I have set ESC in layer 1 to HPT_TOG, so I can turn it on or off.

Ellipse

25 Aug 2020, 19:15

As requested here are photos of the production key colors, all in one photo.

Key colors (from left to right:  Pebble, Pearl, Black, Industrial SSK Blue, 60% Dark Gray):
key colors.jpg
key colors.jpg (1.4 MiB) Viewed 1207 times
key colors (2).jpg
key colors (2).jpg (1.55 MiB) Viewed 1207 times

Zcool31

25 Aug 2020, 20:47

Cross post: My renders of the compact case are here: viewtopic.php?p=470489#p470489

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darkcruix

25 Aug 2020, 22:36

And in regards the last few updates here, they have been applied to the Technical Manual Draft here: http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf

I have added the keycap colors but need to take photos from the same angle on white background. Nothing too fancy, as I want to print it in the original IBM style.
The keyboard drawings from ZCool31 have been added with a 300dpi diffusion dithering like in the original IBM manuals (where appropriate). The keypads have been replaced with a much better looking version that Zcool31 provided. More updates over the next days / weeks.

m3chan1zr

25 Aug 2020, 23:05

I apologize if I missed this somewhere in the forum. Is an invitation to the QMK beta still required? If so, I would like in invitation please. - EDIT: I noticed that posts have said to message pandrew. Message has been sent.

I received a response and was able to boot into bootloader mode using pandrew's host-side utility. Even with my limited technical ability (compared to many of you in this thread), I was able to get it working without much issue. :lol: Thanks again pandrew.

m3chan1zr

26 Aug 2020, 08:08

I apologize if this was discussed in the past but I could not find anything upon searching. Will there be a riser attachment for they keyboards? I noticed that old photos of F77 keyboards had a built-in riser.

User avatar
darkcruix

26 Aug 2020, 10:18

m3chan1zr wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 08:08
I apologize if this was discussed in the past but I could not find anything upon searching. Will there be a riser attachment for they keyboards? I noticed that old photos of F77 keyboards had a built-in riser.
The plastic clip-riser from the original 4704 keyboards aren't available. Saying this, there are a variety of extra bumpers available that do the same trick:
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
The 2 large rubber bumpers (with screw and nut) rise it to the same hight and they can be screwed on and be removed again, when needed.

User avatar
darkspider

26 Aug 2020, 16:08

darkcruix.

The solenoid finally works as expected. thank you for helping!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1298620718863671296

m3chan1zr

26 Aug 2020, 16:15

darkcruix wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:18
m3chan1zr wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 08:08
I apologize if this was discussed in the past but I could not find anything upon searching. Will there be a riser attachment for they keyboards? I noticed that old photos of F77 keyboards had a built-in riser.
The plastic clip-riser from the original 4704 keyboards aren't available. Saying this, there are a variety of extra bumpers available that do the same trick:
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
The 2 large rubber bumpers (with screw and nut) rise it to the same hight and they can be screwed on and be removed again, when needed.
Thank you. I will place an order now.

User avatar
darkcruix

26 Aug 2020, 16:16

darkspider wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 16:08
darkcruix.

The solenoid finally works as expected. thank you for helping!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1298620718863671296
Glad it worked out ....and ... it sounds awesome!!!!

Zcool31

26 Aug 2020, 16:45

Ellipse wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 04:22
The renderings have stepped keys from the prototypes while the new Model F's do not have those keys stepped.
Will stepped keys still be available? Can I order them using "Extra Keys"?

Also, what do I need to install a solenoid in your new Model F? "Solenoid Driver (no solenoid included)" + "Solenoid"?

User avatar
darkspider

26 Aug 2020, 16:49

To install a solenoid you need solenoid driver and the solenoid itself as you mentioned.
Zcool31 wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 16:45
Ellipse wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 04:22
The renderings have stepped keys from the prototypes while the new Model F's do not have those keys stepped.
Will stepped keys still be available? Can I order them using "Extra Keys"?

Also, what do I need to install a solenoid in your new Model F? "Solenoid Driver (no solenoid included)" + "Solenoid"?

Ellipse

26 Aug 2020, 16:57

Great solenoid test video darkspider!

Stepped 1.75U keys are not available from me as I don't have the mold for that key, just the non-stepped 1.75U mold. Unicomp offers stepped keys though.

BucklingSprings

26 Aug 2020, 17:20

Ellipse wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 16:57
Great solenoid test video darkspider!

Stepped 1.75U keys are not available from me as I don't have the mold for that key, just the non-stepped 1.75U mold. Unicomp offers stepped keys though.
I got two 1.75U stepped key from unicomp - one for caps-lock and one for the right shift key.
I was lucky because neither of these keys is particularly scratchy. The bad scratchy
key is my left alt key - which i almost never use anyways.
The Unicomp keys may not be ideal - but hey: it is amazing that they fit as well as they do.

lazylex

26 Aug 2020, 22:46

New to deskthority and just received my F77 today.
I wanted to share my appreciation for this keyboard -- incredible quality and worked right out of the box. Thanks Ellipse!

In case anyone was wondering what the dark gray keycaps look like next to Unicomp's gray and the Industrial Gray case, here are some shots:
Image
Image

I like the original pearl caps from my AT a bit more in neutral lighting, but I am going to leave the gray on as it works better with the lighting in my office.

User avatar
darkcruix

26 Aug 2020, 23:54

Nice combination!!! Hope others will post their keyboards as well... Can't see enough of them.

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Scarpia

27 Aug 2020, 07:28

After a few weeks of use, the space bar on my F77 has developed a ‘squeak’ on the upstroke if I hit it on the far left.

I figure the squeaky sound can be fixed with some kind of lubricant- but what kind and where? Any ideas would be most appreciated.

User avatar
darkcruix

27 Aug 2020, 15:01

Scarpia wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 07:28
After a few weeks of use, the space bar on my F77 has developed a ‘squeak’ on the upstroke if I hit it on the far left.

I figure the squeaky sound can be fixed with some kind of lubricant- but what kind and where? Any ideas would be most appreciated.
I used Silicone Grease for my F122 (I rpelaced the space bar with a Model M one) and this did the trick. This is also available in Sweden (or a similar brand):
https://dentamidshop.dreve.de/dentamide ... -3974.html

OxC0FFEE

28 Aug 2020, 20:12

Is there a modelfkeyboards discord chat? I didn't find a relevant one, only an abandoned one from a meetup held several years ago, but there's nothing but tumbleweeds there now.

User avatar
enrique.aliaga

28 Aug 2020, 21:08

Why do we need a Discord chat for? Important messages and valuable suggestions would be lost in the noise of everybody taking to one another.

warty

29 Aug 2020, 07:33

My F77 came today! Yea! Some of the keys don't work... bummer.

The keys that don't respond... it's not the springs, and I don't think it's the hammers, as I can see that they move up/down with the springs.

I tried to run ibm_capsense_usb_util.app v0.9.0 (latest on the xwhatsit site). I'm familiar with this program because it's what I use in my beam spring. But it just freezes if I select either of the 2 devices (that aren't the beam spring). Disconnecting the beam spring didn't help either.

I PM'ed for an invite to the QMK beta. There's probably nothing I can do in the meantime?

dead keys: z, (but not x), c, v, b, n, m, ",", . , right shift , keypad '.' (for me; so row 4, col 3); every key on the bottom row, including spacebar.

usualbread

29 Aug 2020, 13:36

warty wrote:
29 Aug 2020, 07:33
My F77 came today! Yea! Some of the keys don't work... bummer.

The keys that don't respond... it's not the springs, and I don't think it's the hammers, as I can see that they move up/down with the springs.

I tried to run ibm_capsense_usb_util.app v0.9.0 (latest on the xwhatsit site). I'm familiar with this program because it's what I use in my beam spring. But it just freezes if I select either of the 2 devices (that aren't the beam spring). Disconnecting the beam spring didn't help either.

I PM'ed for an invite to the QMK beta. There's probably nothing I can do in the meantime?

dead keys: z, (but not x), c, v, b, n, m, ",", . , right shift , keypad '.' (for me; so row 4, col 3); every key on the bottom row, including spacebar.
I also received my F77 in the mail yesterday and have the same issues with the ibm_capsense_usb_util.app v0.9.0. I've tried running it on OSX, Windows 10, and Ubuntu and they all fail to load for different reasons. I was hoping to change out the keyboard layout and function layer but so far I haven't had any luck.

I just noticed this post: viewtopic.php?p=469852#p469852. I guess I might have QMK loaded?

OSX: Using the dmg from the xwhatsit downloads. fails the same was as warty describes. I get an initial controller picker dialog with two options in a dropdown. Selecting either and proceeding just causes the app to endlessly beachball.

Windows: Using the exe from the xwhatsit downloads. I get two different errors but they say something to the effect of not being able to find or load the controller. I just get the error dialog and that's it. This happens when running as Administrator or my normal user. This error can sometimes take a few seconds to appear.

Ubuntu (running via VMware): Compiled from the the xwhatsit src download. I've also tried the pre-compiled binary from the new modelfkeyboards website. Basically the same behavior as Windows but the error dialog appears instantaneously. This happens when running as my normal user or via sudo.

I've tried unplugging the device and replugging it back in, tried different USB ports, different computers, restarting machines, running as different users, recompiling the binary on linux without luck. Wondering if I need to patch the 0.9.0 utility code up to 0.9.2 in order to run the capsense util?

User avatar
darkcruix

29 Aug 2020, 14:01

usualbread wrote:
29 Aug 2020, 13:36
warty wrote:
29 Aug 2020, 07:33
My F77 came today! Yea! Some of the keys don't work... bummer.

The keys that don't respond... it's not the springs, and I don't think it's the hammers, as I can see that they move up/down with the springs.

I tried to run ibm_capsense_usb_util.app v0.9.0 (latest on the xwhatsit site). I'm familiar with this program because it's what I use in my beam spring. But it just freezes if I select either of the 2 devices (that aren't the beam spring). Disconnecting the beam spring didn't help either.

I PM'ed for an invite to the QMK beta. There's probably nothing I can do in the meantime?

dead keys: z, (but not x), c, v, b, n, m, ",", . , right shift , keypad '.' (for me; so row 4, col 3); every key on the bottom row, including spacebar.
I also received my F77 in the mail yesterday and have the same issues with the ibm_capsense_usb_util.app v0.9.0. I've tried running it on OSX, Windows 10, and Ubuntu and they all fail to load for different reasons. I was hoping to change out the keyboard layout and function layer but so far I haven't had any luck.

I just noticed this post: viewtopic.php?p=469852#p469852. I guess I might have QMK loaded?

OSX: Using the dmg from the xwhatsit downloads. fails the same was as warty describes. I get an initial controller picker dialog with two options in a dropdown. Selecting either and proceeding just causes the app to endlessly beachball.

Windows: Using the exe from the xwhatsit downloads. I get two different errors but they say something to the effect of not being able to find or load the controller. I just get the error dialog and that's it. This happens when running as Administrator or my normal user. This error can sometimes take a few seconds to appear.

Ubuntu (running via VMware): Compiled from the the xwhatsit src download. I've also tried the pre-compiled binary from the new modelfkeyboards website. Basically the same behavior as Windows but the error dialog appears instantaneously. This happens when running as my normal user or via sudo.

I've tried unplugging the device and replugging it back in, tried different USB ports, different computers, restarting machines, running as different users, recompiling the binary on linux without luck. Wondering if I need to patch the 0.9.0 utility code up to 0.9.2 in order to run the capsense util?
Right, if you want to change the layout, please request to be added to the beta. You will get access to the online web interface to make changes to the layout (or you can also get the full source-code downloaded and compile the changes).

User avatar
darkcruix

29 Aug 2020, 14:03

warty wrote:
29 Aug 2020, 07:33
My F77 came today! Yea! Some of the keys don't work... bummer.

The keys that don't respond... it's not the springs, and I don't think it's the hammers, as I can see that they move up/down with the springs.

I tried to run ibm_capsense_usb_util.app v0.9.0 (latest on the xwhatsit site). I'm familiar with this program because it's what I use in my beam spring. But it just freezes if I select either of the 2 devices (that aren't the beam spring). Disconnecting the beam spring didn't help either.

I PM'ed for an invite to the QMK beta. There's probably nothing I can do in the meantime?

dead keys: z, (but not x), c, v, b, n, m, ",", . , right shift , keypad '.' (for me; so row 4, col 3); every key on the bottom row, including spacebar.
There is a chance of a solder problem between the controller and capacitive PCB. In the meantime, I‘d be checking those. Just open the case with the four screws and check out the controller (both ends of the gray cables).

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