[IC] GMK HADapter Kit This is the IC, Link to GB Inside!

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

10 May 2016, 12:55

Link to the GB
group-buys-f50/gmk-hadapter-hadditional ... ml#p314544



PLANNED TIMELINE
  • Sending design files for new molds to GMK
  • Receive and confirm GMK render of HADditionals kit
  • Secure production slot and pay 150 sets of each kit in advance
  • Post proof of payment and start GB pre order phase
  • Finalize order quantities ~4 weeks after GB start
  • Will continue to take orders at a reduced price until I run out of kits or receive keycaps
  • Leftover kits will be sold at retail price once I receive them
PRICES 0.3 (Subject to change)

  • HADapter Kit (Prices in brackets are in case we hit 250pc)
  • 22€ (19€) for Group Buy pre-orders <= This is currently my projected cost including packaging
  • 23,50€ (20,50€) for orders after finaly production planniung
  • 25€ (22€) for sets bought from me once in stock <= Me making phat stacks
    Image

    HADditionals Kit (Prices in brackets are in case we hit 250pc): ---- BIG DROP IN PRICE! CENTERED DIAMOND KEY MOLDS WILL BE MADE BY GMK AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE!
  • 10€(9€)13,50€ (11€) for Group Buy pre-orders <= This is currently my projected cost including packaging
  • 11€(10€)14,50€ (12€) for orders after finaly production planniung
  • 12€(11€)15€ (12,50€) for sets bought from me once in stock <= Me making phat stacks

Image
I give you all my word that the GB pre-order price is the best price I will ever sell these sets for. Once the GB phase is over, this price will never be available again.

FEEDBACK NEEDED HERE

  • Got a picture of the available #-keys (DE and UK) from GMK. Legend scaling is a bit odd. Go or no-go?
    Spoiler:
    Image
    I believe the #-key on the G80-0904HAD is similairly scaled
  • Got a list of available R4 1.25U legends, want to pick the best legend(s) from the list for the HADditionals kit
    Spoiler:
    „Code“
    “CODE“
    „Esc“
    „Del“
    „Sound“
    „Status“
    „Service“
    „Scroll“
    „Zoom“
    Pfeil links
    Pfeil rechts
    “Lock”
    „Control ON“ (untereinander geschrieben)
    „Start“


Hey Folks,

this is my first step into the GB/Keycap business and I got the idea for this from a thread in the German sub-forum.

The idea will probably only be appealing to ISO-DE users but I still wanted to share it with the whole community for input and remarks.

Background:
There's alot of vintage Cherry doubleshot ABS keycaps available in the German ISO-DE layout. The great majority of these keycap sets is in a winkeyless layout with a 7U space bar and a stepped caps lock. This makes it very difficult to find nice modern keyboards to put those sweet keycaps on.

Idea:
Creating an essentials "Moogle" or adapter kit to fit these commonly available "HAD" keycap sets on the common modern 105-key layout keyboards (Filco, Ducky etc.) and adding a few extra caps for other popular layouts. On top of that, I would like to add three ANSI adapter keys (ANSI-Enter, German \|-key, ANSI-LShift) to allow aesthetic use of ISO-DE keycaps on an ANSI keyboard layout.

The version with off-center diamonds (ONLY AS A REFERENCE, WILL NOT BE OFFERED !):
Spoiler:
Image

UPDATE: For those of you who haven't seen the common ISO-DE layout I am referring to as HAD here, here's a picture:
Spoiler:
Image
Last edited by Wodan on 16 Jun 2016, 10:06, edited 18 times in total.

User avatar
scottc

10 May 2016, 13:01

Sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure I "get" the 1U Entf and Backspace keys, though.

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

10 May 2016, 13:03

scottc wrote: Sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure I "get" the 1U Entf and Backspace keys, though.
Oh good point I just realized I'm the only one doing this. Updated !!!

User avatar
hypkx
Chasing the Dream

10 May 2016, 16:24

Maybe we could add something like that?
2016-05-10 16_23_35-Keyboard Layout Editor.jpg
2016-05-10 16_23_35-Keyboard Layout Editor.jpg (9.86 KiB) Viewed 2738 times

User avatar
faxe
5711 4 life

10 May 2016, 17:17

Sign me up.
Last edited by faxe on 10 May 2016, 17:22, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

10 May 2016, 17:20

Really like the icon and I'm open for suggestions regarding keys. But please be aware that my idea behind this is creating the absolute bare essentials for the most common keyboard layouts.

These are the questions I asked myself for each key I added:

- Is the key part of any modern, common ISO layout?
- Is the key required when using ISO-DE keycaps on a standard ANSI keyboard?

The kit should be very affordable, ideally cheaper than a set of vintage Cherry ISO-DE doubleshots, and fit most popular retail keyboards or cheap 60% kit's options (KC60 or Satan60 i.e.)

My first choice for "legends" is shown in this previous GB:
Image

I am looking for ALL DOUBLESHOT keys and no pad-printed Win95 keys. Icons where possible and German Cherry legends where inevitable.

User avatar
ideus

10 May 2016, 17:44

I'd be in, you may consider to add the ISO enter, 1.25u left shift and the keys suggested by hypkx in icon version.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

10 May 2016, 17:49

Even I could be into this. A base set containing HHKB style extras is good and smart.

Of course, it always ultimately comes down to MOQ with GMK. Might need to appeal to American buyers too, just to get the numbers up.

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

10 May 2016, 17:58

ISO enter and the 1.25u left shift is alway part of the keycap sets I'm trying to complete.

Should there be enough people specifically asking fo it, I can consider adding one of the keys hypkx suggested.
I am not considering adding multiple versions of the same key with different colors/legends here. Think BARE ESSENTIALS and not "ALL TEH MODIFIERS!!!!"

@Miurium: I am not looking for american buyers. If UK buyers could be pulled aboard by adding Control keys, that's worth considering. Other than that, I want to keep this TINY.

Also MOQ will probably not be an issue here. My plan is to buy the caps and sell them until I run out. They will sell, I have patience. And I want to pick them up myself :)

User avatar
Muirium
µ

10 May 2016, 18:01

GMK's ***Minimum*** Order Quantity is quite notorious:

search.php?keywords=gmk+moq&terms=all&a ... mit=Search

We even (sarcastically) awarded them for it in the past. They're not nearly as cool for small batch stuff as SP. Which is a pity, because SP's caps don't mix well with Cherry doubleshots. I've a board with both at the moment and it's not cutting it.


Edit: Hospitals affect my reading proficiency! You're aware of MOQ. Good stuff. You're still going to have quite a stock of caps on your hands, though. And bear in mind the need to pay GMK for them up front. It'll be expensive. You're talking MOQ * the number of caps in your kit.

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

10 May 2016, 18:08

Last thing I heard was they lowered their MOQ to 150. I'm guessing we could be able to get this set below 25€ ... Four kay, that's the going rate for a kidney => no problemo. I'll just buy it back from the profits I make!!!

User avatar
scottc

10 May 2016, 18:21

If you include the UK control keys, I'm all for it.

User avatar
ideus

10 May 2016, 18:31

Wodan wrote: ISO enter and the 1.25u left shift is alway part of the keycap sets I'm trying to complete.
Right, but they are some of the most used keys that in OG Cherry sets are always very shiny, therefore, having replacements makes sense. Also, you should consider people with ANSI OG Sets that wants to use them on ISO keyboards, that opens the possibility for a few more orders, and improve the likeliness of reaching higher MoQs.

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

10 May 2016, 18:34

scottc wrote: If you include the UK control keys, I'm all for it.
"Control" keys are also to be found on at least French (and probably other European) keyboards.
So if all other keys are symbols, adding two "Control" keys would indeed widen the target audience.

In this case, count me in. Even if I already have original Cherry 1.25 modifiers :mrgreen:

User avatar
Muirium
µ

10 May 2016, 18:38

ideus wrote: Also, you should consider people with ANSI OG Sets that wants to use them on ISO keyboards, that opens the possibility for a few more orders, and improve the likeliness of reaching higher MoQs.
That's just what I have in mind. (Plus split shift 60% duty.)

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

10 May 2016, 18:43

ideus wrote:
Wodan wrote: ISO enter and the 1.25u left shift is alway part of the keycap sets I'm trying to complete.
Right, but they are some of the most used keys that in OG Cherry sets are always very shiny, therefore, having replacements makes sense. Also, you should consider people with ANSI OG Sets that wants to use them on ISO keyboards, that opens the possibility for a few more orders, and improve the likeliness of reaching higher MoQs.
I don't think a lot of people would buy these sets in order to replace shiny but existing caps,
and even less would want to make ISO keyboards out of (rarer) ANSI when they can buy used ISO for cheap.
(Muirium doesn't count - he wouldn't use a Cherry board anyway :lol: )

Wodan is right in trying to include only those caps really needed.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

10 May 2016, 18:49

I count if I'm buying, buster!

I'd much rather have this kit than bugger around hunting Cherry boards on Ebay. Because, yes, the boards themselves aren't for me, and I'm a lousy ransacker. Always feel guilty tearing the caps off a keyboard and dumping the remaining husk. New caps are more ethical…

User avatar
scottc

10 May 2016, 18:52

kbdfr wrote:
scottc wrote: If you include the UK control keys, I'm all for it.
"Control" keys are also to be found on at least French (and probably other European) keyboards.
So if all other keys are symbols, adding two "Control" keys would indeed widen the target audience.

In this case, count me in. Even if I already have original Cherry 1.25 modifiers :mrgreen:
My mistake! Even better. :D

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

10 May 2016, 19:30

Okay are there any concerns REPLACING the German STRG keys with Ctrl keys?

Is the #-key also useful for UK ANSI use?

Anyone got a contact at GMK? PM me please.

User avatar
ideus

10 May 2016, 22:05

Wodan wrote: Okay are there any concerns REPLACING the German STRG keys with Ctrl keys?

Is the #-key also useful for UK ANSI use?

Anyone got a contact at GMK? PM me please.
STRG is cooler, but I'd take any. For ANSI with ISO Enter it works either a row 3 [~`] or [\|] it may come with alternate characters like the picture.
Attachments
isokit.png
ISO Extra keys that go well with US or UK Layouts.
isokit.png (3.08 KiB) Viewed 2543 times

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

11 May 2016, 08:04

My perception of the keyboard market is that nowadays basically every available mechanical retail keyboard is available in ANSI layout while only a few of them are also available in ISO layout. The scenario where an ANSI user is desperate to use the ISO layout seems rather uncommon to me and it's not part of the concept of this bare essentials kit.

Those keys were available in a previous GB just a few weeks ago at 5$ a set:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80942.0

Please post here if there are additional keys that might be interesting. I am considering querying for relegendable R1 keys should there be others interested in a bunch of them. Also might be asking for the QMX clips for those of you using keyboards with no plates (G80...)

User avatar
Phenix
-p

11 May 2016, 08:39

The relegendables sound interesting!

typos due to my touch screen are possible

User avatar
ideus

11 May 2016, 14:45

I know I am in a minority, an ANSI user that wants to use an ISO Enter, which I know is insanely crazy, but I think the ISO Enter is the best for my typing habits, and I like its appearance too, yeah I know how crazy that sounds; but, even if the set does not include an ISO Enter key, I consider that the proposal is a great idea; the need for a GMK moogle like this has been discussed extensively and I find it great that someone finally is going to do it, even better if it is kept at the minimum and it gets good pricing, I can use all the keys offered, the only redundant ones, in my case, are the 2.25u shift and the ANSI enter key, which are needed for the target market of the kit, and having extras do not hurt those of us that already have ANSI layouts, so they are all good. Finally, I strongly recommend to include the 1.5 row 2 back space in U9, also the stepped control key that give the set full support for the HHKB layout if a row 1, 1u, \| key is included as well.

P.D. I am not interested in relegendables, and if they increase the price of the set that may be against is basic design philosophy.

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

11 May 2016, 15:33

ideus wrote: I know I am in a minority, an ANSI user that wants to use an ISO Enter […]
If you need an ISO Enter, I can send you one for shipping costs.
Original Cherry doubleshot, used, from a German set (i.e. with no text, only the angled arrow).

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

11 May 2016, 16:34

@ideus: You can't create a proper HHKB layout from the ISO-DE Cherry keycap set. I attached a photo of this "HAD" keycap set in the first post, maybe this helps. This adapter kit is not aimed at ANSI users, there are tons of those available already. There were two full-blown classig-beige group buys that dropped just a few weeks ago

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80434.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80942.0

Should you have missed those, this full mod kit drop is still running:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80267.0
The GB leader mentioned he was planning to run a similair kit in classig beige after the black/white one is finished.

There are hardly ANY keyboards these days that come with stepped caps lock. Vintage keyboards are not the target audience for this adapter kit. I am considering - bending my own rules a little here - adding an alternative caps-lock key with "Control" legend.


Should relegendables be offered, they would be a separate kit with amount x of relegendable caps.

I see your point that ISO-Enter and the shift keys are often the most worn keys of an ABS set. I am using sandblasting to completely eliminate the effects of shine on ABS keycaps, posted my results in another thread. Sandblasting along with peroxide bleaching helps bring even worn, vintage doubleshot keycaps into a condition where they can nicely be mixed with brand new GMK caps.

And yes, classig beige ISO-Enter keys are really not the rarest item on the planet. Just poke some German guys here.

User avatar
ideus

11 May 2016, 17:10

Wodan wrote: @ideus: You can't create a proper HHKB layout from the ISO-DE Cherry keycap set. I attached a photo of this "HAD" keycap set in the first post, maybe this helps. This adapter kit is not aimed at ANSI users, there are tons of those available already. There were two full-blown classig-beige group buys that dropped just a few weeks ago

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80434.0
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80942.0

Should you have missed those, this full mod kit drop is still running:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80267.0
The GB leader mentioned he was planning to run a similair kit in classig beige after the black/white one is finished.

There are hardly ANY keyboards these days that come with stepped caps lock. Vintage keyboards are not the target audience for this adapter kit. I am considering - bending my own rules a little here - adding an alternative caps-lock key with "Control" legend.


Should relegendables be offered, they would be a separate kit with amount x of relegendable caps.

I see your point that ISO-Enter and the shift keys are often the most worn keys of an ABS set. I am using sandblasting to completely eliminate the effects of shine on ABS keycaps, posted my results in another thread. Sandblasting along with peroxide bleaching helps bring even worn, vintage doubleshot keycaps into a condition where they can nicely be mixed with brand new GMK caps.

And yes, classig beige ISO-Enter keys are really not the rarest item on the planet. Just poke some German guys here.
I am guilty as charged to be totally ignorant of what you have available in Europe, but thank you very much for educating me; as I already said, I will be in this GB either way, because, the black on beige is by far my preferred double shot set and my daily driver and I cannot help but get as many modifiers as possible.

Thank you for the links to the GBs and you should know I am into all of them, including the WoB mod set.

User avatar
ideus

11 May 2016, 17:11

kbdfr wrote:
ideus wrote: I know I am in a minority, an ANSI user that wants to use an ISO Enter […]
If you need an ISO Enter, I can send you one for shipping costs.
Original Cherry doubleshot, used, from a German set (i.e. with no text, only the angled arrow).
PMing you and thank you for your generosity.

Shihatsu

11 May 2016, 19:02

I do not own a HAD/HAU/HAwhatever Kit. But I do know where this has come from, and so I am in for one of those, whatever it will be. Sign me up for GroupBuy-participant #1. Well done, SIR!

User avatar
ideus

11 May 2016, 20:28

Shihatsu wrote: I do not own a HAD/HAU/HAwhatever Kit. But I do know where this has come from, and so I am in for one of those, whatever it will be. Sign me up for GroupBuy-participant #1. Well done, SIR!
You should be like number 10+ or so, :lol:

User avatar
Wodan
ISO Advocate

11 May 2016, 20:39

Oh well all participants are #1 in this (potential) group buy ;)

What is the preference for the Capslock symbol? Lock or arrow?

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