[IC] AT101/AT101W programable PCB

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 02:46

Okay, so I recently started to design a PCB to replace the one in the AT101's after being asked a couple times in my omnikey replacement PCB GB.

My main issue at the moment is how to do the microcontroller, I can either use a Teensy 2.0++ and try and figure out how to fit that in the case as I can't use the Teensy 2.0 without using pin PD6 which has an LED on it and that is known for causing issues, unless if I put scroll lock on there(which I don't know if that will be trouble free as it just needs to supply current to the scroll lock LED). These two solutions have an issue with how much space is available in the case and due to the plate, and I am not sure if the 2.0 can fit, let alone the 2.0++.

I can integrate the mc onto the PCB and have it assembled like that but the price goes up quite a bit compared to a separate mc. But total cost should go down from what I can see by maybe $5 per PCB, not including the shipping of the teensy. The downside is programming isn't nearly as easy as a teensy is, but I will leave that up to everyone.

Board will support the similar to my omnikey PCB, but will include support for different bottom rows:
AT101W_Layout.png
AT101W_Layout.png (70.05 KiB) Viewed 814 times
Top:
AT101_PCB_Top.png
AT101_PCB_Top.png (124.22 KiB) Viewed 293 times
Bottom:
AT101_PCB_Bottom.png
AT101_PCB_Bottom.png (91.97 KiB) Viewed 293 times
Tentative Pricing:(not including final shipping: $10 - $15 in US, more for international)
  • 10 - $65
    15 - $55
    20 - $50
    30 - $45
    40 - $40
PCB's will be black with ENIG(Gold) plating and white silkscreen.

Form:
https://goo.gl/forms/N0euoAjKdjnDqDcR2

Only other questions I have is do the cases for the AT101, AT101W and SGI granite all have the same mounting? Would a PCB from one fit into the other two? Or is there slightly different mounting between them? I only have access to AT101W's at the moment.
Last edited by BlindAssassin111 on 07 Jun 2018, 20:29, edited 1 time in total.

Hak Foo

30 May 2018, 04:24

Unlike the Omnikey, the AT101W has a native ISO version (the AT102W)-- I'd suspect a few users here have some they could measure to avoid the issue with "which of the 92 possible ISO enter positions"

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 04:34

Hak Foo wrote: Unlike the Omnikey, the AT101W has a native ISO version (the AT102W)-- I'd suspect a few users here have some they could measure to avoid the issue with "which of the 92 possible ISO enter positions"
You have a point, lol. But at the same time, the board is already setup for the many ISO positions, so no point in removing if it only helps in the future.

User avatar
Elrick

30 May 2018, 04:36

This would be a naive question here - but the diodes can not be bought already installed on this PCB?

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 04:39

Elrick wrote: This would be a naive question here - but the diodes can not be bought already installed on this PCB?
...They could but for some reason I forgot about SMD diodes, was just going to have people install them when they got it. I will look really quickly at how much more this would cost.

EDIT: Yep not going to happen, cost increases way too much to justify it, so you will still need to solder the diodes yourself.
Last edited by BlindAssassin111 on 30 May 2018, 04:52, edited 1 time in total.

codemonkeymike

30 May 2018, 04:49

Will this make it so we can use a full set of Tai Hao keycaps?

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 04:53

codemonkeymike wrote: Will this make it so we can use a full set of Tai Hao keycaps?
What is stopping you from using a full set now?

User avatar
Elrick

30 May 2018, 07:45

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
Elrick wrote: This would be a naive question here - but the diodes can not be bought already installed on this PCB?
...They could but for some reason I forgot about SMD diodes, was just going to have people install them when they got it. I will look really quickly at how much more this would cost.

EDIT: Yep not going to happen, cost increases way too much to justify it, so you will still need to solder the diodes yourself.
Pity, I would of bought a few pcbs if they have all the diodes installed already so only need to worry about the stabs and switches.

Thanks for trying with the diodes (doesn't matter the cost to me) would've of been happy in paying any amount.
Last edited by Elrick on 01 Jun 2018, 09:05, edited 1 time in total.

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 19:46

Elrick wrote:
BlindAssassin111 wrote:
Elrick wrote: This would be a naive question here - but the diodes can not be bought already installed on this PCB?
...They could but for some reason I forgot about SMD diodes, was just going to have people install them when they got it. I will look really quickly at how much more this would cost.

EDIT: Yep not going to happen, cost increases way too much to justify it, so you will still need to solder the diodes yourself.
Pity, I would of bought a few pcbs if they have all the diodes installed already so only need to worry about the stabs and switches.

Thanks for trying with the diodes (doesn't matter the cost to me) I would of been happy in paying any amount.
Just getting the diodes put on the board raised the price by $40 for some reason...Hence it not being worth the extra cost when diodes can be had for way cheaper, and then soldered later. Maybe I can offer a soldering service or something, idk.

codemonkeymike

30 May 2018, 19:48

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
codemonkeymike wrote: Will this make it so we can use a full set of Tai Hao keycaps?
What is stopping you from using a full set now?
I have been told the Tai Hao spacebar and capslock doesn't fit. I was going to purchase an AT101 before being told this (already own the Tai Hao sets).

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 20:22

codemonkeymike wrote:
BlindAssassin111 wrote:
codemonkeymike wrote: Will this make it so we can use a full set of Tai Hao keycaps?
What is stopping you from using a full set now?
I have been told the Tai Hao spacebar and capslock doesn't fit. I was going to purchase an AT101 before being told this (already own the Tai Hao sets).
I forgot to do the support for non-stepped caps(and forgot to put a stepped cap in the op picture). I can easily support that, but the issue with an AT101 using a the Tai-hao sets bottom row is you either have to have gaps around the caps or you have to remove the blockers and then you can run the full bottom row and use the caps. The AT101 doesn't have a current ANSI bottom row, so it is harder to find caps for because of this(unless you joined my nexus slider GB).

codemonkeymike

30 May 2018, 20:32

I misspoke, I meant the AT101w, but removing the spacers may work

BlindAssassin111

30 May 2018, 20:55

codemonkeymike wrote: I misspoke, I meant the AT101w, but removing the spacers may work
So you are saying the Tai-hao spacebar won't work even if it is the same size? Did they move the stabs inserts or is it something else?

codemonkeymike

30 May 2018, 21:36

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
codemonkeymike wrote: I misspoke, I meant the AT101w, but removing the spacers may work
So you are saying the Tai-hao spacebar won't work even if it is the same size? Did they move the stabs inserts or is it something else?
I don't know, but I am curious enough to find out. If I find a cheap AT101w I will buy it and test.

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

30 May 2018, 21:57

From what I've heard from multiple people, the Tai Hao set does not fit on an AT101W, I think it has to do with spacing.

codemonkeymike

30 May 2018, 22:40

My last comment didn't make sense, I have a set of Tai Hao keycaps. Let me take a picture of the spacebar when I get home.

Polecat

31 May 2018, 05:30

Blaise170 wrote: From what I've heard from multiple people, the Tai Hao set does not fit on an AT101W, I think it has to do with spacing.
Tai Hao (Dolch) spacebar top, AT101W (black) bottom.

Caps lock on Tai Hao has the stem centered; on AT101W it's off-center and the cap is stepped. Won't help to offset the pads on the PC board unless you make a custom plate to match.

Not sure it's a safe assumption that all AT101Ws are the same; I only have the one which is a cap donor. Like new, but the black Alps switches are so bad they practically squeak.
Attachments
DSCN0250.JPG
DSCN0250.JPG (655.11 KiB) Viewed 580 times

BlindAssassin111

31 May 2018, 06:28

Polecat wrote:
Blaise170 wrote: From what I've heard from multiple people, the Tai Hao set does not fit on an AT101W, I think it has to do with spacing.
Tai Hao (Dolch) spacebar top, AT101W (black) bottom.

Caps lock on Tai Hao has the stem centered; on AT101W it's off-center and the cap is stepped. Won't help to offset the pads on the PC board unless you make a custom plate to match.

Not sure it's a safe assumption that all AT101Ws are the same; I only have the one which is a cap donor. Like new, but the black Alps switches are so bad they practically squeak.
Ahh so they do use cherry stab mounts. Can you tell if the center stem is on the same plane as the stab mounts? Or if the switch stem is recessed by about 0.8mm? I designed stab inserts for the nexus slider GB that will solve this issue, but need to know this info to make sure they don't sit too low.

User avatar
kbdfr
The Tiproman

31 May 2018, 07:22

Elrick wrote: […]
Pity, I would of bought a few pcbs if they have all the diodes installed already […]so only need to worry about the stabs and switches.

Thanks for trying with the diodes (doesn't matter the cost to me) I would of been happy in paying any amount.
Hi,

I hope you won't mind me PMing you for something as secondary as that,
but I see you keep writing "would of" when it actually should be "would have",
and it does hurt, especially when it happens twice in a single post :lol:

Thanks for giving the correct spelling a try in the future :mrgreen:

Greets,
kbdfr

BlindAssassin111

31 May 2018, 07:26

kbdfr wrote:
Elrick wrote: […]
Pity, I would of bought a few pcbs if they have all the diodes installed already […]so only need to worry about the stabs and switches.

Thanks for trying with the diodes (doesn't matter the cost to me) I would of been happy in paying any amount.
Hi,

I hope you won't mind me PMing you for something as secondary as that,
but I see you keep writing "would of" when it actually should be "would have",
and it does hurt, especially when it happens twice in a single post :lol:

Thanks for giving the correct spelling a try in the future :mrgreen:

Greets,
kbdfr
...You didn't PM him by the way.

andrewjoy

31 May 2018, 15:23

This is a good fit for people with SGI boards :)

Polecat

01 Jun 2018, 05:39

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
Ahh so they do use cherry stab mounts. Can you tell if the center stem is on the same plane as the stab mounts? Or if the switch stem is recessed by about 0.8mm? I designed stab inserts for the nexus slider GB that will solve this issue, but need to know this info to make sure they don't sit too low.
Not sure you should trust any of my measurements. ;) The center stem is shorter than the stab mounts by *approximately* 1/32 inch. I don't have a more precise way to measure it, but definitely not on the same plane.

BlindAssassin111

01 Jun 2018, 07:05

Polecat wrote:
BlindAssassin111 wrote:
Ahh so they do use cherry stab mounts. Can you tell if the center stem is on the same plane as the stab mounts? Or if the switch stem is recessed by about 0.8mm? I designed stab inserts for the nexus slider GB that will solve this issue, but need to know this info to make sure they don't sit too low.
Not sure you should trust any of my measurements. ;) The center stem is shorter than the stab mounts by *approximately* 1/32 inch. I don't have a more precise way to measure it, but definitely not on the same plane.
lol, well I know that from measuring all of my alps spacebars that that is the case. And 1/32" is 0.794mm so basically 0.8mm, which is what I was getting. So it is indeed the same. The make them as alps specified even though they use different stab mounts, I can quickly modify my inserts for the to work on these type of caps, and if people want them along with the board then they can order for cheap.

User avatar
Elrick

01 Jun 2018, 09:04

Definitely interested in having these PCBs with soldered on diodes.

PM'd the OP.

Polecat

02 Jun 2018, 06:46

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
lol, well I know that from measuring all of my alps spacebars that that is the case. And 1/32" is 0.794mm so basically 0.8mm, which is what I was getting. So it is indeed the same. The make them as alps specified even though they use different stab mounts, I can quickly modify my inserts for the to work on these type of caps, and if people want them along with the board then they can order for cheap.
I'm not sure how the Cherry stabs work, but as with the caps lock the plate would have to match the spacebar for the stabilizer to work.

A few months back I got creative (or desperate) and made a Tai Hao spacebar work on a Focus FK-2001 by carefully rebending the stabilizer wire from another board to fit the bar, and using the cross-type inserts from a different set of caps (don't remember which...but I think I posted it here at the time). With no posts the spacebar wanted to wobble, but the custom bent wire prevented that with the bar in the released position. Not suite as stable as the original Focus one with the posts, but fully functional and you'd never notice the difference when typing unless you were looking for it.

edit: found the old post...the inserts I used were from a Monterey K104 Enter key.

post387690.html?hilit=fk%202001%20dolch#p387690

BlindAssassin111

02 Jun 2018, 18:09

Polecat wrote: I'm not sure how the Cherry stabs work, but as with the caps lock the plate would have to match the spacebar for the stabilizer to work.

A few months back I got creative (or desperate) and made a Tai Hao spacebar work on a Focus FK-2001 by carefully rebending the stabilizer wire from another board to fit the bar, and using the cross-type inserts from a different set of caps (don't remember which...but I think I posted it here at the time). With no posts the spacebar wanted to wobble, but the custom bent wire prevented that with the bar in the released position. Not suite as stable as the original Focus one with the posts, but fully functional and you'd never notice the difference when typing unless you were looking for it.

edit: found the old post...the inserts I used were from a Monterey K104 Enter key.

post387690.html?hilit=fk%202001%20dolch#p387690
My inserts are designed to use the alps wire and just fit into the cherry style cap. Nothing special needs to be done to use them, just put in cap and mount on wire like any alps cap, and they work.

Polecat

02 Jun 2018, 18:45

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
My inserts are designed to use the alps wire and just fit into the cherry style cap. Nothing special needs to be done to use them, just put in cap and mount on wire like any alps cap, and they work.
Does that keep the spacebar from wobbling? That was the problem I had with the Tai Hao spacebar on the Focus since it was missing the two posts.

BlindAssassin111

02 Jun 2018, 19:27

Polecat wrote:
BlindAssassin111 wrote:
My inserts are designed to use the alps wire and just fit into the cherry style cap. Nothing special needs to be done to use them, just put in cap and mount on wire like any alps cap, and they work.
Does that keep the spacebar from wobbling? That was the problem I had with the Tai Hao spacebar on the Focus since it was missing the two posts.
I had no issue with wobble. I had an AEKII that had no issue with the stock cap and no post even.

The thing that really affects wobble is the insert, as the insert stops to cap from rotating past a certain point by hitting the wire. If the insert has a wire slot that is too long, the wire won't help keep the spacebar still, I designed my inserts after my Omnikey, AT101W, and AEKII. By doing that I was able to make the slots the correct length for the most common spacebar sizes 6.25, 6.5 and 7, and have the correct slot size to hold the wire when the switch is at resting height.

Polecat

02 Jun 2018, 20:04

BlindAssassin111 wrote:
I had no issue with wobble. I had an AEKII that had no issue with the stock cap and no post even.

The thing that really affects wobble is the insert, as the insert stops to cap from rotating past a certain point by hitting the wire. If the insert has a wire slot that is too long, the wire won't help keep the spacebar still, I designed my inserts after my Omnikey, AT101W, and AEKII. By doing that I was able to make the slots the correct length for the most common spacebar sizes 6.25, 6.5 and 7, and have the correct slot size to hold the wire when the switch is at resting height.
Nice, exactly the same idea as what I did on the Focus, but I did it by using Monterey inserts and custom bending the wire to match at resting height.

User avatar
just_add_coffee

02 Jun 2018, 22:43

Elrick wrote: Definitely interested in having these PCBs with soldered on diodes.

PM'd the OP.
I'm willing to solder the diodes, for you or anyone who orders, for free. Just have to work out the shipping to you. I'll also do the Teensy++ also if you get it to me.

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