Beam Spring 104+SSK Reproduction Project! First Batch In Stock, Shipping early next year after New Model F Project

Ellipse

10 Dec 2022, 20:52

Nope these are actual photos! I recently discovered Photoshop's remove background tool - very effective!

JCMax

12 Dec 2022, 01:57

DerChaot wrote:
09 Oct 2022, 23:25
I for one like the 3278 "posterior section" but prefer the round front of the non-3278. So maybe a mix would be nice.
Bigger is better is my motto.
ISO compatibility would also be nice.
100% agree!!!
Meme_Screen wrote:
10 Nov 2022, 00:28
I actually like the 3278 style, but am also fine with the non-3278 style. I'm also interested in the 122-key layout, and macropad/num pad arranged ortholinearly or even an ortho split variant. I'm a fan of Battle Ships but also ortho layouts. I like almost all keyboards form-factors over 40%.

I would like to request that some thought be put into into where a solenoid and or beeper could be mounted in the case though.
I would go for either 122 battleship or HHKB. Having a split backspace and split right shift would be good on both of them. It might be worth expanding that matrix grid to 16x8 or what-not to have that happen. I'm also on-board with adding keys to the nav-cluster to fill in the gap.

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daemonspudguy

13 Dec 2022, 21:09

I put in a reservation, as I will hopefully be getting a job after the new year. And because I entered one somewhat late, if I don't have a job yet, I might be able to have saved enough money through the upcoming holiday and my birthday in May.

RaoulRod

18 Dec 2022, 21:17

Ellipse wrote:
06 Dec 2022, 04:16
Update - beam spring orders opening up this week and shipping this month!
Just checking to see if anyone has gotten the honor of placing their order(s) yet. I thought I might have been one of the first people to sign up, and I haven’t seen anything about placing an order.

It sounds weird, but I am looking forward to being able to pay money for a Christmas gift to buy for myself :)

I like the “modern” look of the round 1 keyboards!

Ellipse

18 Dec 2022, 22:26

Apologies for the delay. I am currently putting together the product pages and the setup and typing test videos. Hopefully I will wrap up soon.

RaoulRod

19 Dec 2022, 02:14

No worries! It is the holidays, and things are always busy :)

I just don't want to miss out on the awesome train :)

Ellipse

20 Dec 2022, 03:35

Samples of the beam module parts (and also the 3 new Model F keys) have been completed and will be mailed to me over the coming weeks. These first samples do not yet have the production colors.
2022 12 19 new keys and beam molds (1).jpg
2022 12 19 new keys and beam molds (1).jpg (317.09 KiB) Viewed 5786 times

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ifohancroft

20 Dec 2022, 12:38

Those look absolutely awesome!

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Mr Luud

21 Dec 2022, 23:10

I am interested in placing a pre order for the beamspring KB

Ellipse

21 Dec 2022, 23:56

Great! Please sign the interest form in the first post of this thread to reserve your keyboard. The link is also copied below:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... sp=sf_link

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webwit
Wild Duck

23 Dec 2022, 11:11

Hi Joe, thanks for the invite for round 1 (and 2), and congrats with another milestone! What a great accomplishment.

Very pleased to see the B62 in HHKB style added to the options for round 2, wow. I'll wait for that.

Am I correct that there will be no compact style options for round 2? I'm not sure if I dig the classic style, especially in B62 format. Do you have any photos or renders of the B62 you can point me to?

Ellipse

23 Dec 2022, 11:46

Here is the email that went out today to all but the first few hundred signed up folks who were given the choice to pick Round 1 and/or Round 2.

The Beam Spring Project is launching today!

Round 2 (classic style) Beam Spring Keyboard - now public and open to all
Order link: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... -keyboard/

Thank you for being a part of the project. You are one of the 1,200+ sign-ups on the Google form; you are now able to customize your Round 2 Classic Case Style Brand New Beam Spring keyboard. Please read the below-linked product page and watch the setup and typing test videos (embedded on that page) for additional details so that you can decide what to order.

Right now those who signed up the earliest have been given a 15-day order window starting today and ending on Saturday January 7; they can pick Round 1 or Round 2. After that date, I'll move down the list of emails and reach out to the next group if there are any remaining Round 1 spots. Round 1 was limited to the first few hundred sign ups as production was limited to about 150 boards in each type (B104 and BSSK).

Please use the same email address when placing your order, so I can match it with the interest form.

For most folks I definitely recommend the Round 2 boards; the reasons are detailed in the above-linked product page.

And finally, no cheating please! As a note, if the round 1 link is leaked and someone orders it without having received my invitation email, the order terms note that they agree to receive a round 2 keyboard without notification (not smart to risk it, as the Round 2 boards are lower in cost for a short while). This email is not the Round 1 invitation email.
Last edited by Ellipse on 23 Dec 2022, 11:47, edited 1 time in total.

Ellipse

23 Dec 2022, 11:46

Thanks webwit. I hope these keyboards survive shipping as they move around the world.

Apologies I still have to make the renderings for the other keyboards. The design is expected to be the same dimensions for all Round 2 keyboards, except the BSSK will chop off a few inches on the right side compared to the B104, the B62 will chop off the right block of the BSSK, and the B122 will add an extra row on top for F13-F24 and extra space on the left side for the 10 function keys, compared to the B104.

Confirmed the ultra compact design is just for the first round. This could change if there is sufficient demand for a Round 3. The good thing is it's not too costly to make your own case since no mold might be needed - just laser cutting and bending metal. The Round 2 beam spring's inner assembly can be put into another, more compact case design if anyone on the forums wants to manage such a project themselves. Also the modules are now available to order individually with the hope that folks can design their own keyboards.

inozenz

23 Dec 2022, 12:34

Gratz on the launch. Why are all options same price? And what do the options look like? As I am seeing it you are not offering different language options for the keycaps?

Ellipse

23 Dec 2022, 12:45

There are tooling costs incurred for each case, and the smaller cases have far higher tooling costs per unit since the quantity is much smaller for B122, B62, etc. There are economies of scale even comparing 100 to several hundred of something.

Yes the base key set is a US key set with both ANSI and ISO options, but with the ISO Enter key sold separately. I do not have the minimum order quantity for the various other language key sets, though these keyboards are MX-compatible so they should work with key sets that you can get elsewhere.

I replied in my prior post with a note on what to expect the other keyboards to look like. In general, they all have the same design as the 3101 style case renderings posted a few pages back.

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webwit
Wild Duck

23 Dec 2022, 15:25

Would love a blank keycap set in the future. If anyone else is interested, show your interest here.

Rauha

23 Dec 2022, 15:36

Got the email. Going to order Round 2 ISO model, but I have not really followed the project in a long time. Couple of questions, as I do not really understand the options on Round 2 and the pictures do not have model info/names:

What is a BSSK keyboard? Something like this viewtopic.php?t=14292 ?


Is this design pictured on the store page for the round 2 "B104 keyboard "? It appears to have 104 key design at least
Image

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Bjerrk

23 Dec 2022, 15:54

Some things from the product page that ... worry me a bit:
  • Beam spring keyboards are new to most people – do not be scared to learn how to set them up and maintain them: Though both are capacitive keyboards with springs, beam spring keyboards are very different from Model F keyboards, so even if you are familiar with Model F’s you will need to watch a setup video to set up your beam spring keyboard – otherwise you will think that the product is defective because everything will not 100% work out of the box. This should not scare anyone away from using these great keyboards as it is well worth an hour or more of your time to be able to use such a great keyboard. It may take a few hours. To spend the least amount of time required to get your own beam spring keyboard, order this round 2 keyboard instead of the round 1 keyboard.
  • Tools are required – they are not included: You’ll need a Torx T8 screwdriver and a paper clip at a minimum, and maybe some super glue and other tools. [...]
  • What you’ll do to set it up: You will be testing each key and opening up the keyboard to fix/replace key modules and install the space bar, and you’ll install the other keycaps. When installing keys, be extremely gentle when pressing them into the module. It is not necessary to push down the keys hard, as far as they will go, because you will likely break something.
  • Some keys won’t work right away – you are responsible for making this keyboard work: the required setup process may require additional adjustment in the future, after your keyboard is set up. Everything is not going to work 100% out of the box, and everything is not going to work 100% in the months and years after you have set up your keyboard. Just like the Model F keyboards you will need to set them up and do some adjustments over time. You are responsible for the initial setup and for fixing stuff. This keyboard is not for you if you do not want to spend an hour or more to set it up and time in the future to adjust a key that stops working well. Do not use any beam spring keyboard in a mission-critical environment.
 
Sounds very different from the reliability of IBM keyboards?

RaoulRod

23 Dec 2022, 16:20

A question on the keys, I on the product page it shows the keys you are going to ship. Does it include a the keys necessary to swap the “Caps Key” and the left “control” key for those who prefer to have the control key to the left of the home row instead of the (mostly unused) caps lock key?

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zrrion

23 Dec 2022, 19:47

>everything is not going to work 100%
Not something you should be saying for a product at this price point.

Ellipse

23 Dec 2022, 20:21

Rauha yes you are correct, that is the 104 style layout but the design of the case will be different, as shown in the renderings on that same product page. The name of the keyboard indicates the approximate key count / style. SSK refers to the IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard style (TKL style) keyboard.

RaoulRod I took a look at the key set (linked to below and also on the project page) and unfortunately they can only provide the exact keys specified. Molds for extra keys would cost five figures, even for just a few keys.
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... scaled.jpg

webwit the minimum order quantity is 1,000 sets of this "scooped" style key set so for folks wanting other designs (including international layouts) I recommend ordering other MX-style sets. Even changing the legends is not possible for double shot keys, without requiring a new mold. Since I ordered 2 styles of this set (all black keys and black mods with all other keys being white) I had to order 2,000 sets. As an update I ordered these sets earlier this month and they expect production to finish late next month.

Bjerrk I hope that everyone reads the product page in full as you have done. Obviously, no one can know just yet how things will turn out over the coming years. I recall reading somewhere on DT that reliability issues and cost were two of the top reasons IBM switched from their beam spring to the Model F. To counteract this I am ordering tens of thousands of extra modules in Round 2. I am trying to be overly cautious in my disclosures because this is a new production run of a product that hasn't been made in over 40 years (?) and I am setting expectations for everyone thinking of joining that these keyboards may need attention over their usable life, just like Model F keyboards but even more so than the F keyboards. As mentioned before I don't recall any module failures from the new beam spring keyboards after using them for over a year but it is possible.

The main QC issues in general for beam spring keyboards, based on my experience with two IBM 3278 originals and the new Beam Spring repros involve reseating flyplates that detach from the module and also doing work to counteract the damage these keyboards sustain in shipping. There are additional QC issues for Round 1 that are expected to affect a few keys per keyboard, as disclosed in detail on the product page.

zrrion it is absolutely true that everything will not work 100% out of the box. Please do not take things out of context, however. The remainder of the text explains why it is not possible. This was the case even for IBM beam spring originals that I received. I had to purchase some extra beam spring modules and follow some of the same QC steps I show in the new video.

The main attitude I want to convey is that due to their complexity, beam spring keyboards will always be an enthusiast project, not a set it and forget it type of keyboard. Model F and Beam Spring keyboards are not suitable for everyone. The beam spring user should not be afraid to use a screwdriver and other tools :)

Ellipse

23 Dec 2022, 21:36

Here are the two new beam spring project videos for everyone's reference.

Typing test video (Round 1, Round 2 prototype, and IBM original beam spring)
Beam Spring Setup Video

Rauha

23 Dec 2022, 21:58

Made the order on Round 2 despite being on the Round 1 interest list (I want ISO). Hope that is ok?

Also, just wanted to note my interest for swedish-finnish layout keycaps, or alternatively happily for some sort of all Nordic (DK/FI/SWE/NO) set, if that would be easier to get to economically feasible order amount.

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Bjerrk

23 Dec 2022, 22:06

Ellipse wrote:
23 Dec 2022, 20:21
The main attitude I want to convey is that due to their complexity, beam spring keyboards will always be an enthusiast project, not a set it and forget it type of keyboard.
That makes sense.
It was mostly lines like this one:
When installing keys, be extremely gentle when pressing them into the module. It is not necessary to push down the keys hard, as far as they will go, because you will likely break something.
that got me a bit worried, since it comes across as a case of flimsy build quality?
With my IBM beamspring modules, I've literally taken a hammer to them to get the metal mounting "pin" into the plastic stem (while outside the keyboard ... ), and I've never broken one.
I was somewhat hoping for similar levels of sturdiness and build quality with these keyboards.

Ellipse

24 Dec 2022, 00:00

No problem; the interest list lets you choose either round if you signed up early enough.

As noted a few months back, I've hammered over 100 new modules to remove all the washers in bulk, in order to replace the springs, using a hammer with the below tool going underneath the beam washer. The reason for this is that superglue responds best to that kind of force instead of trying to pull it apart; I don't remember the scientific explanation why.

Performance Tool W1046 11-Inch Long Reach 90-Degree Bent Long Nose Pliers

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zrrion

24 Dec 2022, 00:05

Ellipse wrote:
23 Dec 2022, 20:21
zrrion it is absolutely true that everything will not work 100% out of the box. Please do not take things out of context, however. The remainder of the text explains why it is not possible. This was the case even for IBM beam spring originals that I received. I had to purchase some extra beam spring modules and follow some of the same QC steps I show in the new video.
I mean, I can see this sort of response from someone who can't figure out powder coating and ships keyboards that aren't fully assembled. Every used IBM board I've bought has worked out of the box including the F122 the seller literally poured flood water out of. This includes model M, model F, and model B keyboards and selectrics.

>This was the case even for IBM beam spring originals that I received. That's not a product currently being made though, you do understand the difference between 30 year old parts and something you are actively producing right?

>The main attitude I want to convey is that due to their complexity, beam spring keyboards will always be an enthusiast project, not a set it and forget it type of keyboard.
Bullshit, the main idea you're conveying is that you can't figure this stuff out and can't be bothered to. At this price point that's frankly ridiculous. And it seems clear to me that the only reason you're saying that things won't be 100% when you get them is to cover your ass when people get product with shoddy QC and you know it. People will get the same sort of QC issues with their boards as they did with their "100% tested" model Fs and you can just ignore them and remind them that you said it wouldn't work when they got it.

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soyuz

24 Dec 2022, 00:37

In your own setup video you start talking about "the wiggle method" being partially to make the plastic parts fit together better, and beam springs being bent wrong out of the box. This is an indicator of terrible tolerances and bad manufacture, that's not a product you should be shipping to customers. Mental.

Blaming the postal service for this is doing the postal service a disservice (pun unintended). This kind of internal shoddiness doesn't come from shipping damage, it comes from poor design and a complete lack of QC. Somehow all of my IBM keyboards (beamsprings included) have managed to be manhandled through shipping without literally having their insides mangled - and that's without being packaged in a proper manufacturer shipping box.

Not that this should come as a particular surprise, your slopey-shoulders attitude to running a business is quite evident from previous years (fobbing off support for your product on the community, finding anyone else to blame but yourself for bad design choices, business being a business when it's easy, but a project when it's difficult, etc)

JCMax

24 Dec 2022, 01:07

How soon will more pictures of keyboards with the various options available be posted on your site? I would love to see what they look like before placing the order. Some of the pictures look like rough prototypes or AutoCAD images.

Specifically, keyboards showing the different colored cases with some of the different key-cap options, e.g. black with white key-caps, B122 in red with black key-caps, etc.

Ellipse

24 Dec 2022, 01:55

JCMax the images will be just renderings for a while, until the factory produces some prototypes of each version. I ordered just the one prototype (B104) to make sure the design is good, before opening up orders. Might be a few months at least. I'd imagine though that white and black keys would both match the various case color options well.

infundibulum

24 Dec 2022, 09:29

Ellipse,
If I want to order a solenoid with a beam spring do I get the same $30 "solenoid driver" (along with the solenoid, of course) that I order with a new Model F?

I think this is what i read but I just wanted wanted to double-check as the solenoid page doesn't list the details regarding the new beam spring.

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