Interest Check for a GMK group buy

sherryton

10 Oct 2013, 10:25

matt3o wrote:I can't say it enough. The only way to have an international GMK GB is by putting all ISO languages together into one megamoth set (of 5/6 languages).
This might work, but I just need someone to help me out here with the layouts.

pasph

10 Oct 2013, 10:34

matt3o wrote:I can't say it enough. The only way to have an international GMK GB is by putting all ISO languages together into one megamoth set (of 5/6 languages).
QFT
If this is not possible then no legends are better than wrong ones

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LechnerDE

10 Oct 2013, 10:48

matt3o wrote:I can't say it enough. The only way to have an international GMK GB is by putting all ISO languages together into one megamoth set (of 5/6 languages).
That's definitely true.

Thing is that this extra set will get so expensive that we still wouldn't reach MOQ. Only a very few people would buy a ~100$ set just to get the ~10 language keys they need.

I came to the conclusion that I don't care for the actual legends anymore. I don't need them for typing anyway and only want them for a consistent look.

Therefore we should just make nice ANSI sets and include the 4 ISO keys in it and maybe a Mini-Tsangan Kit (1,5x Mods + 7x Spacebar + stepped Capslock). No more no less.

In my opinion every GMK GB should only have 1 reasonable option without any special keys to please vocal minorities. This it what harms IvanIvanovich's GMK GBs in my opinion.

Splitting things up harms everybody because it gets harder for every single set to reach MOQ.
Last edited by LechnerDE on 10 Oct 2013, 10:49, edited 1 time in total.

pasph

10 Oct 2013, 10:49

sherryton wrote:
matt3o wrote:I can't say it enough. The only way to have an international GMK GB is by putting all ISO languages together into one megamoth set (of 5/6 languages).
This might work, but I just need someone to help me out here with the layouts.
We can start from here
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/iso- ... t4566.html

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Muirium
µ

10 Oct 2013, 10:50

sherryton wrote:
matt3o wrote:I can't say it enough. The only way to have an international GMK GB is by putting all ISO languages together into one megamoth set (of 5/6 languages).
This might work, but I just need someone to help me out here with the layouts.
Fortunately, there are a handful of guys here who have organised ISO group buys and know the answers that you need. And you're quoting one of them!

One language pack to rule them all. And give everyone a little education about different European layouts as they try to figure out which caps to use from the stash. Some well designed documentation would be useful there!

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akuji13

10 Oct 2013, 12:21

For me personally its simple: i paid a lot times for the ANSI only users, now they can pay for me to get my language pack. ;)

Without it, i dont need another ANSI set.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

10 Oct 2013, 12:26

sherryton wrote:
matt3o wrote:I can't say it enough. The only way to have an international GMK GB is by putting all ISO languages together into one megamoth set (of 5/6 languages).
This might work, but I just need someone to help me out here with the layouts.
no problem with that.

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LechnerDE

10 Oct 2013, 12:36

akuji13 wrote:i paid a lot times for the ANSI only users, now they can pay for me to get my language pack. ;)
I don't think it's that easy. What did we actually pay for the ANSI users? We joined some GBs, but we didn't participate to help them in first place, but to get the nice sets that wouldn't be availabe otherwise.

By that we helped them reach higher tiers and save them maybe 3$ per set. That's insignificant - they don't need us at all. They are the majority and we have to accept that :)

Why should they spend ~50$ to help us? Would you if you were in their position?

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Peter

10 Oct 2013, 13:01

LechnerDE wrote:
akuji13 wrote:i paid a lot times for the ANSI only users, now they can pay for me to get my language pack. ;)
I don't think it's that easy. What did we actually pay for the ANSI users? We joined some GBs, but we didn't participate to help them in first place, but to get the nice sets that wouldn't be availabe otherwise.

By that we helped them reacher higher tiers and save them maybe 3$ per set. That's insignificant - they don't need us at all. They are the majority and we have to accept that :)

Why should they spend ~50$ to help us? Would you if you were in their position?
Even ANSI-users must meet MOQ .
Any non-ANSI user buying a set is helping them meet MOQ,
by buying caps he doesn't really need .

I suggest :
1 ' base-set ' covering both US-ANSI and UK-ISO
1 ' language-pack ' covering 'Nordic' - layouts
'Nordic' would be : German, Austrian and Swiss-German,
Swedish/Finnish, Danish/Norwegian and the rest of the languages included in the
40-key GH 'Dolch' language-pack .
Sorry Italy, Spain,Portugal and France, but those layouts have to many 'special' keys
for a language-pack ..

Or maybe we should drop Double-Shot and go for Dye-sub PBT instead ?

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akuji13

10 Oct 2013, 13:02

LechnerDE wrote:That's insignificant - they don't need us at all. They are the majority and we have to accept that :)
I dont need them too. ;)

For me this is just another (insert "boring" here i you are :evilgeek: ) set which has nothing special from a company (GMK) that dont give a fuck about the community.

If we always accept things as they are, they will never change.
Mayby the ANSI-only users whould pay for us, because the really want this set? ;)
LechnerDE wrote:Why should they spend ~50$ to help us? Would you if you were in their position?
I always do when i join an ANSI gb. ;)
Every order helps to reach an moq, even mine.

Time for payback now.
Last edited by akuji13 on 10 Oct 2013, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.

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LechnerDE

10 Oct 2013, 13:14

I principle I agree with you, but it just won't happen...

That's the bitter truth I think ;)

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

10 Oct 2013, 13:25

I don't understand where's the problem in an ANSI set + 1 language set (UK included), they don't seem that many keys

Image

I know it's not perfect and it needs refining, but it's a starting point. The only way to reach the MOQ is to put all languages together so that all the 5 PT, 6 IT, 7 FR etc... orders sum up together.

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BimboBB

10 Oct 2013, 13:26

Peter wrote:
Or maybe we should drop Double-Shot and go for Dye-sub PBT instead ?



THIS...or even "simple" doubleshot sets from SP! Remember there are only 7bits' R4 sets which ever realized language packs (as far as I know)! :!:

As long as GMK keeps their stupid MOQ of 400 there is no way of realizing languages. Even ANSI guys alone will have a hard time to take that hurdle.
For groupbuys it would make sense to go just for modifiers, F-rows or numpads, as its easier to find cherry doubleshots in yr local language than to hope for 400 buyers of a huge language pack.

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Peter

10 Oct 2013, 14:39

What he ( BimboBB ) said above !

Also :
What's this BULLSHIT about X company 'not having a ISO-RETURN mould'
and demanding THOUSANDS of credits to make one ?

Seriously, we should stop discussing this 'in public'
and together make the 'production-layout' for :

1 : " US-ANSI/UK-ISO key-cap (USAKI) pack" (TM) (R) (C) (IP) (DMCA) (PAF)
2 : "Nordic-ISO key-cap (NIKC) pack " (TM) (R) (C) (IP) (DMCA) (PAF)
(and all other relevant "Intellectual Property" legislation, National and/or Inter/Trans-national )

Nordic-ISO key-cap (NIKC) pack
is a multi-language computer-keyboard key-cap set,
consisting of 40-60 key-caps, or any other number mutually agreed upon ,
INVENTED
to convert US-ANSI/UK-ISO (USAKI) layout computer-keyboards to other,
mostly North-Western European, keyboard-layouts,
in combination with "USAKI"

If or when this happens, I will transfer the ownership of the Intellectual Property Rights (IPR)
to the Deskthority club/foundation or whatever, so the royalties can (hopefully)
cover site-expenses .


I'm serious about the above :
If I see ANY 'for profit' key-cap manufacturer
suddenly offering the above -
I WILL SUE YOU -
Using the best (= most expensive) Law-firm I can find !


If you do the maths, you will realise this is the only way to meet MOQ .
It will also provide a lot of 'excess' keys with rare characters,
perfect for non-profit trading in the community ..

The first production should be perfect replicas of the caps 'everybody' already has,
that is : White-on-Black & Black-on-White "Cherry" style caps .

Once that business is running, we can start with all the cap-pr0n :mrgreen:

IvanIvanovich

10 Oct 2013, 17:13

I spent a long time studying the various language layouts, and GMK took quite a long time checking those keys are available. So all of that is already done for the major languages. You just need to see what I have up in my groupbuy. I grouped them up to have the most keys in common. Additionally Italian and French are good to go with GMK if you decide to offer them.

Seems some of you really like the way I set things up in general.

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dirge

10 Oct 2013, 17:25

sherryton wrote:
dirge wrote:The right direction being a black on yellorange function row.
Lol, if that set is made, and it is not called the dirge set then something is wrong.
Thank you! so make it please :evilgeek:

sherryton

10 Oct 2013, 17:44

Peter wrote:
LechnerDE wrote:
akuji13 wrote:i paid a lot times for the ANSI only users, now they can pay for me to get my language pack. ;)
I don't think it's that easy. What did we actually pay for the ANSI users? We joined some GBs, but we didn't participate to help them in first place, but to get the nice sets that wouldn't be availabe otherwise.

By that we helped them reacher higher tiers and save them maybe 3$ per set. That's insignificant - they don't need us at all. They are the majority and we have to accept that :)

Why should they spend ~50$ to help us? Would you if you were in their position?
Even ANSI-users must meet MOQ .
Any non-ANSI user buying a set is helping them meet MOQ,
by buying caps he doesn't really need .

I suggest :
1 ' base-set ' covering both US-ANSI and UK-ISO
1 ' language-pack ' covering 'Nordic' - layouts
'Nordic' would be : German, Austrian and Swiss-German,
Swedish/Finnish, Danish/Norwegian and the rest of the languages included in the
40-key GH 'Dolch' language-pack .
Sorry Italy, Spain,Portugal and France, but those layouts have to many 'special' keys
for a language-pack ..

Or maybe we should drop Double-Shot and go for Dye-sub PBT instead ?
This is a thing. The best I can do to accommodate for this key is by asking someone like Ducky Nordic for the extra ISO mould PBT key, and the set will be slightly off by 2 keys (1.25x Shift and 2x by 1.5x by 1x Enter key). I would also have to send the color in, but it might not match. I am hoping someone like imsto and Ducky Nordic shares the PBT moulding.
matt3o wrote:I don't understand where's the problem in an ANSI set + 1 language set (UK included), they don't seem that many keys

Image

I know it's not perfect and it needs refining, but it's a starting point. The only way to reach the MOQ is to put all languages together so that all the 5 PT, 6 IT, 7 FR etc... orders sum up together.
I have your skype. I'll contact you in case there are any missing languages that would easily fit in there.
akuji13 wrote:
LechnerDE wrote:That's insignificant - they don't need us at all. They are the majority and we have to accept that :)
I dont need them too. ;)

For me this is just another (insert "boring" here i you are :evilgeek: ) set which has nothing special from a company (GMK) that dont give a fuck about the community.

If we always accept things as they are, they will never change.
Mayby the ANSI-only users whould pay for us, because the really want this set? ;)
LechnerDE wrote:Why should they spend ~50$ to help us? Would you if you were in their position?
I always do when i join an ANSI gb. ;)
Every order helps to reach an moq, even mine.

Time for payback now.
Sorry about this haha. Hopefully the cost will be at a good price point for all EU users.

IvanIvanovich

10 Oct 2013, 18:32

PBT dosen't help for ISO at all. Only Cherry profile ISO enter that seems to exist anywhere is with Cherry and they won't sell keycaps on it's own (except the KC104 sets in Asia market). If they don't make them 'in-house' they won't give up the third party. I tried to get them to sell sets from 3000L*CXX, but they insist it's only possible to sell it as a whole keyboard. It's really quite absurd that the only plausible way would be to bulk buy 3000L*CXX take off the keycaps, dyesub them, put them back on and send it to you.

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Broadmonkey
Fancy Rank

10 Oct 2013, 18:47

sherryton wrote:
matt3o wrote:I don't understand where's the problem in an ANSI set + 1 language set (UK included), they don't seem that many keys

Image

I know it's not perfect and it needs refining, but it's a starting point. The only way to reach the MOQ is to put all languages together so that all the 5 PT, 6 IT, 7 FR etc... orders sum up together.
I have your skype. I'll contact you in case there are any missing languages that would easily fit in there.
These three keys will make it work with Danish layout:
Missing the € on numrow 5 key
Missing the € on numrow 5 key
Danish key set.jpg (148.81 KiB) Viewed 11907 times

sherryton

10 Oct 2013, 19:44

Those keys look like it's kind of available already. The row 1 keys look like the legends are on the other side though.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

10 Oct 2013, 19:47

I have a very extensive list, now I'm a bit in a hurry, in the weekend I'll post an exhaustive list.

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Broadmonkey
Fancy Rank

10 Oct 2013, 20:17

Yes, there is very little difference between the nordic layouts. It seems they only swapped some legends around for the sake of differentiate them.

gianni

02 Sep 2016, 09:25

Is there any interest to bring back this set?

There is a gb on gh for gmk white on black, so this could be a nice addon....

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

02 Sep 2016, 09:54

Oh wow this is pretty impressive work done here already. Shame I never saw that thread. Might steal some of the work from here for my NORDEUK Essentials project.

gianni

02 Sep 2016, 13:45

What's the cost of a 1U key??
Seeing the price of modifiers set, I think that it should be lower that $0.5/each.

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Wodan
ISO Advocate

02 Sep 2016, 14:43

more like 1$ each for sets this size... or smaller.

pomk

02 Sep 2016, 14:49

I've been rambling about this on some threads already, but why not make a set like this? The coluor scheme is similar to penumbra, but uses the Monokai colourway as inspiration instead of solarized. The colours are not the point of the discussion however.

Main set:
main.png
main.png (33.38 KiB) Viewed 11704 times
ANSI 'addon'
ansi.png
ansi.png (14.18 KiB) Viewed 11704 times
NorDe 'addon'
norde.png
norde.png (21.95 KiB) Viewed 11704 times
During the gb one would select if they want ANSI or NorDe (or both and get all the keys) and both would have MOQ of 150. If both succeed the 'main' set would be cheaper for both as the 250 price break would be available and both options would get cheaper. You can also put many of the ANSI related additional keys to the ANSI set instead of bloating the common one. In this preliminary division the HHKB and FC660 are the ones put to the ANSI basket.

The only difficulty with this approach is the placement of UK ISO. it has more keys in common with ANSI than with NorDe, but clamping it with the ANSI set might make some people angry as getting the 'expensive' ISO keys would be mandatory for ANSI users as well.

This, I think, would make the NorDe set appealing to many more people, as the keyset would not be around 200€, but rather even under 100€.

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dorf

03 Sep 2016, 09:18

gianni wrote: Is there any interest to bring back this set?

There is a gb on gh for gmk white on black, so this could be a nice addon....
I would be in for one!

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t!ng
Awake Sheep

03 Sep 2016, 13:07

Skydolchplskthxbye

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