The Granite aftermarket thread

[teuf]

1. Why is the cyrillic kit so desirable? I figure hardly anyone here actually uses/needs those cyrillic co-legends.

As far as I'm concerned, I would have a use for it, but unfortunately missed round 1. I assume quite a few people loved how it looks after seeing pictures as Muirium said

[Muirium]

SP, like frankly most companies in the keyboard business, is more than just a little bit incompetent. I mean, they're no Unicomp, so there's no need to sound the alarm. But they're very capable of taking steps backward: like we were discussing only yesterday! Truth is, SP used to be a lot more capable than they are today. They've ditched all sorts of things over the years, and only occasionally dip their toes in something new. Or even "new"! Often as not, they'll decide they didn't like it.

As for Matteo, here's Granite's inception, if you're interested in a long read.

http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/i ... t6061.html

He's definitely voiced his concern about his work becoming too easily obtainable here at DT before. (If not on that thread, then on one of the several covering the various rounds of GBs, most likely the first, which was going to be the only one when it ran.) I don't really 'get it' either, but I can understand where he's coming from. He's a craftsman.

Though frankly, if Massdrop doesn't have all the power over running Granite over and over whenever they like, I'd be amazed. That's a huge concession to give someone else. Not like them.

[zslane]

I am seeing Vortex double-shot PBT sets popping up everywhere these days. Even WASD is now re-selling them from their website (I'm assuming they are Vortex...where else would they be coming from?). Is Vortex poised to steal the custom PBT market from SP perhaps?

When I look at the OEM profile, I see a tall sculpted profile with cylindrical tops. How much harder is it to make SA-profile caps when the only salient difference (in terms of structural complexity) that I can see is the spherical top (and its rather subtle impact on the outer contour)? If Vortex is successfully mass-producing OEM keycaps in double-shot PBT, how far could they be from producing SA-profile double-shot PBT sets?

[Muirium]

Vortex will absolutely give it a shot. They're out to eat SP's lunch. Followed by SP!

I haven't heard of Vortex collaborating with the community, though. (Correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't Redited all the Geekhacks.) That's SP's trick: they let us run little group buys with low MOQs (minimum order quantities) especially compared to GMK, and high degrees of customisation. As far as I know, Vortex just wants to churn out predictable, high volume, monotonous stuff. Which gives SP a niche to survive in at least.

[zslane]

Interesting. And kind of annoying.

I can't help but wonder about Vortex's long-term goals because making double-shot PBT keycaps feels like a move almost entirely aimed at pandering to keyboard customizers like us who are pretty much the only folks with the connoisseurship to understand and care about the difference (to say nothing of the willingness to pay for it).

The Vortex double-shot PBTs on WASD are relentlessly mundane, and frankly I don't understand the point of them. They have a design indistinguishable from the cheap pad printed keys that sit atop mass-market membrane keyboards. Anyone who knows why double-shot PBTs are noteworthy isn't going to want those. Everyone else is going to pass just on price. If Vortex is going to go to all the trouble of perfecting double-shot PBTs, then why aren't they aggressively courting the market segment that cares the most about them?

[Muirium]

Massdrop and the like get a lot more customers than there are active people here and at GH etc. We're a very small group within the wider mech market. Easy to ignore that when chatting to ourselves, but then sales figures speak a different story.

SP's greatest strength isn't community relations (she's called Melissa, and you endlessly hear about her whenever someones going deep in organising a GB) but their small-run batch manufacturing system that lets them have comparatively minuscule MOQs. Vortex likely isn't even interested in trying some of that. You just don't get all the economies of scale.

[zslane]

Yes, I've communicated with Melissa. I found her to be pleasant and patient in my minor dealings with her. For what that's worth.

I am beginning to feel like I am getting in on the tail-end of an SA-profile revival that won't last much longer. It sounds like SP ever teeters on the brink of just saying f**k it and getting out of the small-run vanity press business all together. Better get my SAs while I still can, eh?

It used to be that the only world I knew was the world of cheap mass-market membrane keyboards where economies of scale are the only economies at work there. Now I discover the mechanical keyboard world and, while it is considerably smaller, I now learn it too is fractured and that there is a mass-market segment that isn't as cheap but is just as mundane and lacking in finesse or style as the membrane keyboard world. And the tiny sub-segment that cares about keycaps with character and artistry is further bisected by the "timeless classic" aesthetic and the "unicorn puke" aesthetic (and I suppose its gamer-oriented sibling the "toy robot" aesthetic).

I guess it is a small miracle that 7bit's GBs even exist, and that I'm going to be able to get my hands on these sublime Round 5a kits (fingers crossed that it all goes smoothly).

[zslane]

As for Matteo, here's Granite's inception, if you're interested in a long read.

http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/i ... t6061.html

He's definitely voiced his concern about his work becoming too easily obtainable here at DT before. (If not on that thread, then on one of the several covering the various rounds of GBs, most likely the first, which was going to be the only one when it ran.) I don't really 'get it' either, but I can understand where he's coming from. He's a craftsman.

I just spent the whole day reading that thread, and nowhere in it does Matteo express a concern for any sort of overexposure for the Granite set. That must have been voiced elsewhere. Regardless, I don't really understand that sentiment. I do, however, understand the reluctance to be the central figure of so large a GB again, though in the case of a Granite re-launch, it is all logistical. There is no new design work to be done.

And as for its inception and gestation, I have to say that, after reading 53 pages of community input on its design, I'm impressed by Matt's patience and ability to accomodate so many varied interests. I also had no idea just how much that set has your paw prints all over it, Miurium. I'd say that while Matteo did all the layout and liaising (with SP), you are very nearly its co-creator. Its midwife if nothing else. I understand now why you speak of it with such superlatives...a little personal pride perhaps?

Reading that thread was like reading a novel--which font was going to win out? Which colors? Which glyphs? Would Miurium get his beloved chevron control keys? I kept wanting to send my voice of support (for those chevrons) back in time to help your cause because I surely would have pushed for them just as hard had I been a part of it back then. I'm glad it turned out so well in the end. As you say, a keycap set for the ages. Perhaps the definitive DSA set.

Now if we can only move mountains again and get a gorram re-launch for us poor sots who missed out the first time around!

[scottc]

[...] Perhaps the definitive DSA set.

It's the definitive DSA set, without a doubt! No other set comes close to it.

[Muirium]

Heh, midwife isn't quite right. I'm more like Granite's nosy mother in law. So much nagging!

I read the opening page of the Granite inception thread yesterday when I found the URL. It was as long ago as that? And I was in favour of a Round 5-like ABS SA over PBT DSA? And all the same row profile? What was I thinking!

Those were early days for me here. Granite's design was one of my first real deep dives on DT, and Matteo was of course a saint to involve us lot so much, with our squabbly desires and clashing ideas. I got pretty much everything I wanted, once I adjusted to the idea of PBT DSA. Damn good thing I did, too, because Granite's even more special than Round 5 precisely because of those gorgeous legends.



If you were to be crazy enough to read through the Round 5 thread — which 7bit didn't separate at any stage of progress, so it's massive — you'd see my paws at work again. SP's doubleshots don't allow nearly as much customisation as dyesub, though, so our focus there was in dreaming up new kits with various specialty uses in mind. I had a common theme: monolegends!

I changed my mind about uniform profile with time, as SA's sculpted rows are actually one of its great strengths in my view. That was thanks to Matteo, too. As chance would have it, I got my SPH set from him right at the time we were going deep on specifics in Round 5. Once I had the caps on my keyboard, I knew a lot more about them. Perhaps Round 5 would have come out quite differently I'd I had not? Depends how much 7bit was really leading the agenda in any case!

[Khers]

[...]
Now if we can only move mountains again and get a gorram re-launch for us poor sots who missed out the first three times around!

Fixed that for you

[Muirium]

Never much of a consolation that you missed three trains instead of one. In fact, it makes things seem worse!

The trouble with group buys is that semi regular forum users so often miss them entirely. We need an announcement system, or even just a trusty well edited newsletter that covers important GBs and warns people that now is the time to check it out and don't pretend we never told you!

Actually, where I'd really smart subscriptions is for group buys. It's hard to catch everyone's eye during the window of opportunity for a lot of small-batch stuff. A way to reach people would be most useful.

This sort of thing is why I'd like us to publish a DT blog. Something timely, quick and readable, with links into the forum, that we edit and keep updated. That would help for sure. Though a newsletter (or custom subscriptions) go the next level by heading out to people for themselves, without the need for a speculative visit.

That still wouldn't help people who haven't shown up at all yet. But I don't know what would.

Anyway, discussion of the DT Blog never got any further than Webwit's desire to not change anything. And I've zero interest in Facebook or Twitter. It's got to belong to us.

Perhaps a DT email newsletter wouldn't ring his alarm bell. It'd certainly reach people that arent actively following the latest goings on about town.

[kbdfr]

[…]



[…]

I see a π there, but no µ. Weird.

[Muirium]

I'm still trying to get hold of that double legend M key. That's where I type Mu too, putting anywhere else doesn't seem right.

Edit: I took that picture the very first day I got my hands on granite. So it was before you kindly sent me a monolegend Mu of my own either. Thanks Kbdfr!

[Khers]

Never much of a consolation that you missed three trains instead of one. In fact, it makes things seem worse!
[...]

No it most certainly isn't, but it does mean that there are quite many sets out there and that a WTB thread might result in a set. Especially around delivery time and given that it wasn't that long ago that Granite R3 dropped on MD, I guess now would be a good time.

Was the Mµ-key in the international kit? If so I miiight have one... I'm in the middle of a move at the moment, so I can't check right now, but shoot me a PM and I might be able to sort it out in a few weeks.

[zslane]

Never much of a consolation that you missed three trains instead of one. In fact, it makes things seem worse!
[...]

No it most certainly isn't, but it does mean that there are quite many sets out there and that a WTB thread might result in a set. Especially around delivery time and given that it wasn't that long ago that Granite R3 dropped on MD, I guess now would be a good time.

You're joking, right? I would expect any "WTB Granite set" post to be met with a deafening chorus of laughter. Who in their right mind would sell theirs? I can hear everyone grumbling something about their cold, dead hands...

I don't think anyone who really knew about Granite passed it up out of indifference. In my case, I was completely oblivious to the (contemporary) mechanical keyboard world before last month. I am a casualty of unlucky timing; a late-comer, not an indolent lurker. Though I confess that I really only hang out here, not GH or /r/mech. I keep thinking I should probably join GH, but the website gives me migraines.

[flabbergast]

You're joking, right? I would expect any "WTB Granite set" post to be met with a deafening chorus of laughter. Who in their right mind would sell theirs? I can hear everyone grumbling something about their cold, dead hands...

Quite a few people were selling their sets after the last MD drop on reddit. Mind you, they usually go very quickly, but if start hunting I imagine you'd get one eventually. Just need patience.

[Halvar]

DSA is not for everyone. What good does the nicest set on earth do you if you find out that you don't like the profile once you have it?

The Granite GBs were huge! I think the chance to find someone who wants to sell is not too bad if you search actively.

[kbdfr]

[…] I took that picture the very first day I got my hands on granite. So it was before […]

I wasn’t expecting an explanation, just found it weird you publish a pic without a µ key

[…] Who in their right mind would sell [their "WTB Granite set"]?

I did and was rather happy someone took it off my hands.
It was a fantastic GB taking everybody’s wishes into account, caring for multiple layouts and with a lot of specials and extras,
but I just didn’t like the looks of my keyboard with the caps, and above all I didn’t like typing on them.

[zslane]

Given its re-sale value, I suppose Granite is a good first DSA set to buy if you aren't really sure you'll like the profile.

I love sphericals. I have DSA Dolch on a Filco and I love it. If I had Granite on a Filco I know I'd love that too. I'm a full-ANSI kind of guy, but janvkn's Pokers looked glorious next to each other dressed in these two sets.

If treasure-hunting for a used set is a better bet than hoping for a MassDrop re-launch, then so be it. I suddenly feel like Benjamin Franklin Gates...

[Khers]

Never much of a consolation that you missed three trains instead of one. In fact, it makes things seem worse!
[...]

No it most certainly isn't, but it does mean that there are quite many sets out there and that a WTB thread might result in a set. Especially around delivery time and given that it wasn't that long ago that Granite R3 dropped on MD, I guess now would be a good time.

You're joking, right? [...]

Most certainly am not.

[Muirium]

I wasn’t expecting an explanation, just found it weird you publish a pic without a µ key

Well, I needed a shot with those chevron Control keys that Zslane mentioned and I fought hard for!

Incidentally: Granite has the best mods ever. The icon set is absolutely superb. Just as we planned.

[usopia]

I agree absolutely. I've never seen such caps and couldn't understand the people who ordered only text mods.

[Muirium]

The text mods were pretty good too, but the icon mods were the star. Matteo made it easy for everyone to pick their own (there were base and pro mods kits in both text and icon flavours) and as I recall the text ones outsold icons at every level. I'd mark it down to people being conservative and not wanting to take a risk on a distinctive look, but the wacky coloured kits did well too, so nope!

I do like the blue Return keys, I must admit. Eventually got ISO and ANSI varieties of those via trades, along with a functional text mod set so I can cover two boards in Granite now with my original purchase.

Here's what I'm typing on right now:



Yeah, I'm a sucker for the Cyrillics. Those (and the µ special chevron Control keys) were a single run. I think Zslane's surely got a chance picking up a Granite set, including icon mods, but those are the hard ones. I've never seen Cyrillics listed for trades.

[zslane]

I can live without Cyrillic alphas. However, I don't really want to have to live without the icon mods. And I too am rather partial to the red icon Escape and the blue icon Return. They add just the right dash of color without overwhelming the sublime grey-on-grey aesthetic.

[Muirium]

Yup. I'm just as keen on the main Granite alphas as these Cyrillics. But I've a natural instinct towards the unobtainable and flaunty, so…

The red Escape and blue Return is a natural must have pair. The red bomb key, meanwhile, is a note to self. I usually have my screen brightness controls on adjacent keys in the "F13" through "F15" block (as OS X sees them up there), but my Realforce 87U messes that up by replacing the middle one with Num Lock. So I'm trying to get used to F13 and F15 as brightness up / down on my TKLs so I can be consistent across the lot. Don't touch the bomb!

[usopia]

This is how mine Granite Board looks at the moment. I know, quite colorful but for gaming it is ok for me.

IMG_0954b.jpg (976.29 KiB) Viewed 4232 times

...and sorry but I'm a lousy photographer.

[Muirium]

Not a bad photo, I can see everything!

(You should see what a crappy job my old EOS 350D does with its built in flash. I'm really eyeing up a new camera these days. Perhaps a mirrorless Canon EOS M3.)

The RGB mods and blue arrow keys are ones I missed, for anyone keeping score. I don't think anyone truly has All The Granite!

[usopia]

Made the photo with my old Canon IXUS 50. I've also an old Panasonic DMC SZ30 which is a little better (I think) but not here at the moment.

I have Granite RGB text mods also, blue (and grey) text ISO Enter and fiew more. I wanted create a swap list but now I'm not sure if I want to trade Granite caps at all.
...hmm, those colors:

P1010179v.jpg (700.86 KiB) Viewed 4221 times

I miss the kit with red arrow keys, I forgot to order.

[radish]

anyone have 2.75 and a 2.25 blank set for teh space bar?