[Interest Check] Silencing Rings for Topre RF or HHKB

seaworthy

05 Feb 2016, 01:23

Update: my athletic tape spacebar landing pad experiment didn’t last. The noise reduction was eliminated in just a few days. So now I am trying another attempt with the standard round gripping dots. I cut two dots out from the sheet they are shipped on and took an iron to them. I folded a piece of regular printer paper in half, put the dots in (with the film/paper covering their adhesive side still in place).

It turned out to be a happy mistake. When I went to retrieve the dots from inside the folded printer paper, the heat had made them stick to the paper, so when I tried to remove them the top surface of the gripping dots torn off and stayed behind on the printer paper. While this was not part of my brilliant plan to reduce the height of the gripping dots, it worked very well to do that. The adhesive side was still fine and the sponge side was thinner. I placed the dots on the spacebar landing pad and so far they work great. Significant reduction in spacebar clack and no noticeable reduction in key travel.

I still have high hopes for my Sugru silicon spacebar mod. I noticed today the most pleasing noise in my house other than my keyboard—our KONG dog toy. This is a rubber toy you can load up with kibble and your dog pushes it along the floor knocking out bits to eat. On a tile floor the sound this rubber makes is even deeper than a silenced HHKB. Obviously silicon is not the same chemical makeup as rubber, but maybe the Sugru mod will be equally pleasing. For now the burned and butchered gripping dots are working very well.
gripping_dots.png
gripping_dots.png (320.07 KiB) Viewed 20455 times

update: I did a test of the Sugru on the outside of a donor case (wanted to be sure it would stick to this type of plastic). I was able to roll the material out very thin and it kept its shape and size. Banging the bottom of a spacebar on the this rubber/silicon blob confirms it will mute the clacking sound (at least in this exterior setting). This Sugru stuff is supposed to have incredible longevity too. I’m going to try this when my current gripping dot spacebar mod fatigues.

Figueiredo

22 Feb 2016, 10:20

A major shout-out to Hypersphere for putting the time into sourcing materials and a manufacturer for these - and going through multiple iterations to ensure perfection. I bought them through Muirium (shout-out to him for being an awesome proxy), but I just haven't had the time until now to install them. These are by far the best addition I have made to a keyboard. When I first got my NovaTouch I was blown away by the feel of the switch and at first I was pretty sure I had found the switch for me (I've gone through quite a few MX boards). But I was quickly put off by the noise of the keycaps (not bottoming out, but "resetting"). However, these rings have totally eliminated that and made this the best keyboard I've used (and owned) by far. I finally feel as if I can understand all the "Topre hype" - which I couldn't in the beginning (without the rings) due to the excessive noise the keycaps made.

10/10 - would recommend anyone with a NovaTouch to get a set of these - they really do transform the keyboard into something else. This thing is honestly so good (personal preference, I know) that I'm contemplating getting a second board and set of rings as a backup - just in case this one breaks etc.

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ShivaYash

22 Feb 2016, 14:02

I'm late to the party... but want some of these. @hypersphere, are there any still available for my HHKB?

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Hypersphere

22 Feb 2016, 15:24

@ShivaYash: There are still Silencing Rings available through "katesattic2" on eBay. We are starting to run low, but I expect to have another round completed by mid-March to minimize or eliminate delays.

@Figueiredo: Thanks for the kind words. I have to admit that the results are remarkable, especially with the Novatouch. The Silencing Rings unmask the hallmark sound of Topre switches revealing their full thocknicity (thockness? Thockenheit?). ;)

sethbc

23 Feb 2016, 07:05

I'd echo Figueiredo's sentiment. I've now gotten an extra RF 87u with rings to go with my existing 87u, HHKB and novatouch. Right now have rings on the 87u and the HHKB, but have two sets on the way for the other RF and the nova!

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ShivaYash

03 Mar 2016, 14:22

Hypersphere wrote: @ShivaYash: There are still Silencing Rings available through "katesattic2" on eBay. We are starting to run low, but I expect to have another round completed by mid-March to minimize or eliminate delays.

@Figueiredo: Thanks for the kind words. I have to admit that the results are remarkable, especially with the Novatouch. The Silencing Rings unmask the hallmark sound of Topre switches revealing their full thocknicity (thockness? Thockenheit?). ;)
Thanks H, I'll order. How many does one need for a HHKB Pro 2?

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scottc

03 Mar 2016, 15:27

One for each key!

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Hypersphere

04 Mar 2016, 01:00

@ShivaYash: Yes, indeed, one for each key! So, for the HHKB Pro 2, you need 60 rings. Packs for the various sizes of keyboards come with 3 extra, so the HHKB pack has 60 +3 = 63 rings.

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Hypersphere

10 Mar 2016, 15:24

The rings are temporarily sold out, but I expect to have another round ready within a week or two. Note that the name of the eBay site is also being changed to "Hypersphere2016".

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Cafeine

19 Mar 2016, 18:11

Do you have any "warning" system to beep potential customers like me when it's back in stock? Because I need to save my botched FC660C. :D

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Hypersphere

22 Mar 2016, 19:18

Update: There is going to be another delay because the raw materials for the Rings are backordered. I will post here when the next batch of Rings is available.

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scottc

06 Apr 2016, 23:48

Hyper, I've just finished installing a set of rings into my HHKB Pro 1 after Muirium's short proxy run from the USA, and I have to say I'm very impressed with the results so far. Thank you very much!

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ShivaYash

07 Apr 2016, 04:28

Cafeine wrote:Do you have any "warning" system to beep potential customers like me when it's back in stock? Because I need to save my botched FC660C. :D
Me too HS.

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Hypersphere

08 Apr 2016, 17:13

I am working on the rings as fast as I can. I will post here and/or in a new thread when they are ready. Thanks for your understanding and patience. (I am eager to get them done as well, as I have two more keyboards waiting for the Silencing Ring treatment!).

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Hypersphere

11 Apr 2016, 23:42

NOTICE: The Hypersphere Rings (Silencing Rings) are available once more! They are now up for sale on eBay at "hypersphere2016". This was previously "katesattic2".

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Cafeine

12 Apr 2016, 15:06

So sexy. SO EXPENSIVE. ;) But I know why, don't get me wrong, it's just that my NAS hard drives (6 !) are in full suicide mode these days and this expense wasn't really planned. -_- I hope to grab enough to save my FC660C but I may have to pass on the RF87 mod I was planning. :(
Last edited by Cafeine on 12 Apr 2016, 15:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Spikebolt
√(4) != -2

12 Apr 2016, 15:11


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adhoc

12 Apr 2016, 19:09

This is basically nearly more expensive than buying a new type s vs p2 and definitely more expensive when comparing used type s vs p2. And I'm not even factoring the manual labour and time needed for this mod. And the fact you never get the extra key travel back, unlike with type s.

What makes people love this? For realforce boards?

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Spikebolt
√(4) != -2

12 Apr 2016, 19:13

Not sure what you're talking about mate, a type-S is like 100$ more expensive and the rings cost like 35$. But yeah, Novatouch and Realforce are lovely with these rings.

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adhoc

12 Apr 2016, 19:17

Rings for a HHKB are nearly 40 and there's 20 bucks of shipping to get them to me. That's 60. If I spend more than 2 hours on this mod it already costs me more than a type s - and I still get to lose the key travel. I can't say I see the appeal in this.

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Spikebolt
√(4) != -2

12 Apr 2016, 19:20

You can do it under an hour if you know what you're doing. The novatouch and realforces do not have type-s versions, the rings complement those keyboards really well.

Yeah, overseas shipping + import taxes is rough, though I'm not sure you can blame the seller for that. If you feel the Type-S is a better deal for you then just get it.

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adhoc

12 Apr 2016, 19:23

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the complementary $30 import fees, lol.

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lootbag

12 Apr 2016, 21:37

adhoc wrote: Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the complementary $30 import fees, lol.
I managed to try a few of the silencing rings recently and it makes quite a difference with barely any effect on key travel. That being said, it is still expensive to ship these to Hong Kong but at least I do not have to pay import fees. :(

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scottc

12 Apr 2016, 23:04

adhoc wrote: Rings for a HHKB are nearly 40 and there's 20 bucks of shipping to get them to me. That's 60. If I spend more than 2 hours on this mod it already costs me more than a type s - and I still get to lose the key travel. I can't say I see the appeal in this.
Works wonders on a Pro 1 for me. Doesn't make any very noticeable difference to travel. I got mine for $45 flat for 90 though, thanks to Muirium who proxied them.

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Hypersphere

12 Apr 2016, 23:33

@adhoc: It is my understanding that the Type-S HHKB Pro 2 has the same sliders as the standard HHKB Pro 2. It certainly looks that way on my Type-S HHKB Pro 2. The silencing rings in the Type-S HHKB Pro 2 also appear to be about the same thickness as my Silencing Rings. As far as I can tell, the effect on key travel is the same in the Type-S HHKB Pro 2 and a standard HHKB Pro 2 with Silencing Rings installed. In both cases, I do not detect any difference when typing compared to a standard HHKB Pro 2 without Silencing Rings. However, there is a major difference in sound between a silenced and standard HHKB Pro 2. The most dramatic effect is achieved with a combination of installing Silencing Rings and lubing the stabilizers and slider rails of the switches with oil -- I use Superlube 51010 oil. For good measure, I also install some extra rubber pads under the spacebar.

The situation is different with the silenced version of the Realforce keyboard. In this case, they use a different slider to account for the thickness of the silencing ring. In a standard RF board, the sliders are black; in a factory-silenced board, the sliders are purple. Nevertheless, I find that the effect of Silencing Rings in a standard RF are negligible with respect to key travel, but the effect on the sound is striking.

Note that the sliders in the Novatouch are purple, but they are not the same as the purple sliders in a factory-silenced RF. In the Novatouch, the sliders have the special stems that accept Cherry mx keycaps. Of all the Topre-switch keyboards I have tried, the Novatouch benefits the most from the full treatment of installing Silencing Rings, lubing the stabilizers and switch rails, and putting rubber pads under the spacebar. I also find that to avoid bottoming out noise with the Novatouch, it is best to use OEM profile PBT keycaps. As with the other Topre-switch boards, I find that installing Silencing Rings in the Novatouch does not noticeably affect key travel (unlike dental bands or regular O-rings).

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adhoc

13 Apr 2016, 08:29

Thanks for the explanation Hypersphere. To clarify, I've had/have 2 HHKBP2s and 2 Type S, I've also had the chance to try out lubed Type S (not mine) and a lubed HHKBP1 (not mine). I'm currently mostly using RF 87U 55g, which is gaining it's place in my heart, as the switches feel much more crisp and less mushy than on a HHKB to me. I'm kind of looking at these to maybe silence it and I don't even have a problem with the cost of the rings so much, as the import fees and shipping would double the cost of these. Ugh.

I thought the sliders on a normal HHKB are shorter than on a Type S - that's at the very least what a post on DT would lead you to believe, if you'd google this question. Weird.

the_marsbar

13 Apr 2016, 11:28

Actually, as pointed out by hasu...

According to the information on PFU's website, the stroke of the Pro 2 is 4 mm [1], while the stroke of the Type-S is 3.8 mm [2]. So I certainly think you'd end up with something very similar to the stroke of a Type-S by installing Hypersphere's rings...

[1] https://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/ ... /spec.html
[2] https://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/ ... #pro2_spec

Will it at some point be possible to order these from Europe somewhere (this has been the case previously, right)?

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Hypersphere

13 Apr 2016, 17:35

@adhoc: You are welcome. Apart from my HHKBs, I have an all-45g RF87UB in my rotation along with an all-55g RF87UB. I go back and forth on favoring each one of these. The 55g RF has a nice solid sound and feel with excellent tactile feedback, but I tend to prefer the 45g RF or HHKB for long sessions at the keyboard. I also prefer the form factor and layout of the HHKB. Typing on the RF seems like serious business, but typing on the HHKB is more fun. An often-used analogy is that typing on the RF is like driving a luxury sedan, whereas typing on the HHKB is like driving a sports car.

@the_mashbar: Thanks for the specs on the Type-S and standard HHKBs. This confirms my own observations.

Regarding the Rings, my wife handles all the sales transactions and shipping, and in the interests of her time and effort, she prefers to use eBay for everything. It is my understanding that their shipping costs also cover import fees, but I am not certain of this. The recent GB was organized my Muirium, and this was coordinated with his trip to the USA. I would be open to another GB for folks in the EU/UK if someone on the other side of the Atlantic were seriously interested in organizing it.

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Spikebolt
√(4) != -2

13 Apr 2016, 17:57

They actually detail it. Check this screenshot.

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adhoc

13 Apr 2016, 18:02

Hypersphere wrote: The 55g RF has a nice solid sound and feel with excellent tactile feedback, but I tend to prefer the 45g RF or HHKB for long sessions at the keyboard. I also prefer the form factor and layout of the HHKB. Typing on the RF seems like serious business, but typing on the HHKB is more fun. An often-used analogy is that typing on the RF is like driving a luxury sedan, whereas typing on the HHKB is like driving a sports car.
There is absolutely nothing I'd add to this paragraph. It summons up my opinion entirely.

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