Blue Selectric I keyset for IBM Beamspring boards

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Bass

20 Dec 2018, 21:21

As someone who has a better understanding of the value of these keycaps than most, allow me to share my 2c. As a disclaimer, this is going to be very tl;dr but I have a lot of pent up feelings I want to let out.

First, I agree that $525 is a very high price for these, probably too high in my opinion given that some of the caps are damaged and the typewriter is not included. There's also no debate that the seller is blatantly attempting to flip these. He told me himself that he ended up looking for these only after seeing pictures of my own blue keyed selectric just recently. And, it's clear that he has no interest in the typewriter itself (he purchased just the caps from the previous seller).

However, I can't help but roll my eyes at the reactions in this thread. An angry lynch mob will always show up to attack anyone who attempts to sell stuff at high prices, whether it's here, GH, or reddit. There is evidence that the seller is a greedy flipper, sure, but does that warrant such a strong reaction? These are just keyboards and keyboard accessories for fuck's sake, rare and collectible at that. I wish people had this much energy to attack people who are doing the same thing with essential goods that actually matter like housing, but I digress...

In some cases, it gets to the point where these sellers are baselessly accused of harboring some nefarious agenda of reaching out to the keyboard community for the sole purpose of ripping off unsuspecting buyers who don't know better, which is what bothers me the most. People like myself and Ellipse can attest to this. We were not attacking anyone personally, yet some people thought it was ok to react in kind because they disagreed with our prices. It's easy to be shortsighted and self-righteous in these situations, but just think about the consequences of that. Had other community members not come to our defense, I certainly would have never posted pictures and stories of all my other interesting finds or worse, stuff like the Model F reproduction project would have never come to fruition. Why should we bother trying to contribute to a community which does not welcome us? Is this the outcome you guys want?

I'll just leave it at this quote that's been said over and over again: "A fair price is whatever the buyer is willing to pay for it."

With all of that out of the way, I'd also like to respond to a few people in particular:
wobbled wrote: You're only making it seem more acceptable when it just isn't. This is a hobby that used to be fun and had nothing to do with making ridiculous money - back when kishsavers were listed for dirt cheap (granted they were unusable, but they were still ridiculously rare if not more rare than these blue caps)
That's not a fair comparison. The hobby was much smaller in 2013 and as you said, 4704 keyboards were not usable on modern computers yet. If you actually read tinnie's thread, you'll also notice that some people thought his prices were too high even then. But more importantly, demand was much lower because far fewer had an interest in Kishsavers back then. But now? There are perhaps less than 100 kishsavers that are currently known to exist by the community, but Ellipse's project has proven that demand grossly outstrips supply.
wobbled wrote: lets not forget that there are still people who list for fair prices that get fucked over by greedy ass holes who resell to other dumbasses.
Shit like this is killing a fun hobby, and I hope I'm not the only one that sees it this way.
I am glad you pointed this out since it undermines your argument. What incentive is there to sell something for a generous price if the buyer can immediately flip for double? There are plenty of examples I can mention, but I think it would be best to mention my own. Remember the 3278's I sold last April for $700-800, which made people scream bloody murder? As it happened, I traded one of them to a well respected community member for another board he valued at $800. He did mention that he would probably sell it on ebay rather than keep it, which I was fine with. Lo and behold, I found it on ebay, but listed for $2000!!! Now, I don't know if he managed to sell it at that price but I am not bringing this story up to denigrate him. If he did, I can only blame myself for not making a better trade. The only reason I even wanted to mention this story is that I don't ever want to see anyone complain the next time I sell a beamspring for $800 when shit like this happens. It's extremely grating.

I also don't take kindly to referring to the buyers who actually pay these prices as "dumbasses". Your point would have a lot of merit if you were actually talking about someone attempting to sell an item that can easily be found elsewhere at a lower price. That would be a legitimate case of a seller trying to take advantage of unsuspecting buyers through ignorance. But that does not apply to rare collectors items that seldomly ever turn up for sale like these keycaps. Sure, it's possible to find them at one tenth the price this seller is asking, but doing that will require a lot of luck (AND usually effort). If the buyer wants to deck out their beamspring badly enough but doesn't want to go through the trouble of searching for these themself, then they have every right to pay whatever price they feel they can reasonably afford. This does not make them a "dumbass". I think fohat said it best:
The definition of a good business deal is: when both parties are satisfied with the outcome. If something is worth $50 to you and a seller is willing to sell it for $50, everybody wins.
Lastly I'd like to say I have great respect for people like tinnie and Cindy who have made great relics available to us at affordable prices. But I feel like this has made some people in this community feel entitled as a result. It takes a lot of time, effort, and luck to make these hauls possible. Ellipse explained this point very well in one of the threads I linked earlier if you need further elaboration. Just because a few people decide to be very generous and keep their prices low (for buyers who did not put in the same amount of effort to find those boards) does not mean everyone else should be held to those standards. The satisfaction of circulating more cool stuff into the community is enough for some, but others will also be motivated by personal gain. You can bemoan about this reality all you want, but just remember that more beamsprings and Model F's would have been dumped into the shredder by now if it weren't for that. It's an irony that seems to escape a lot of people sometimes.
just_add_coffee wrote:
JP! wrote: Let's see an entire Selectric I Re-Furbished, Serviced And Tested sold for $450 + $59 shipping. What a bunch of bollocks parting out just the keys.
selectric.jpg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Blue-Keys ... 7675.l2557
$400 + $59 shipping. And as you said, Re-Furbished, i.e. WORKING Selectric. :D
That listing is not at all indicative of the actual value as it was BIN. It's also worth mentioning that it also sold VERY quickly after it was put up, which should be further evidence that it could have gone for considerably more if it were put up for auction instead. Quite frankly I'd say $459 shipped for a fully refurbished blue keyed Selectric is a killer deal.

There are few accurate benchmarks that can be used to determine what these are really worth, since these rarely ever turn up for sale and the few recent examples were probably below market price. I have spoken with several typewriter shop owners who are very knowledgeable about Selectrics, so I'll do my best to provide an estimate. First, let's consider what a standard Selectric I costs. The cheapest fully refurbished unit on ebay is going for just under $400 shipped, and there are some going for above $600. My local typewriter shop also sells refurbished Selectric I's for around $600 (taking the high cost of living and demand for typewriters in my area into account). So, let's just say $450 is around average. The blue keyed Selectric I purchased was also around $450 shipped. It worked but needed service, and it did suffer some damage during shipping. I paid $150 to fix the stuck carrier, so now it types. However, fully refurbishing it would probably cost me anywhere from $200-300. So completely refurbished, that puts my Selectric at an estimated value of $800-900. Finally, I talked to another typewriter shop owner who had two that he was in the process of repairing and restoring. He was planning to sell them later for $1000 each. So let's go with $900. This would put the value of the keycaps at around $400-$500 by my estimate. Taking into account that some of the keycaps are damaged, I wouldn't pay more than $400 for this seller's set, but if I were the seller I would also absolutely not consider any offer below $350.

tl;dr, the seller's asking price is probably a bit too high but not totally outrageous. And if someone wants these badly enough and is willing to pay anyway, more power to them. They are very rare after all.
Myoth wrote:
If you have more information to help me price these please say so.
I'd value them at something like 200usd max, I'm pretty sure the Selectric JP! linked was bought by a collector rather than a keyboard enthusiast with way too much money. And a collector surely will see way more value in a complete typewriter than just the keycaps.
You are dead wrong. I think my price breakdown above should be a sufficient explanation and it's one that's backed by typewriter experts that I have met.

I also felt urged to mention this: If anyone thinks paying $400-500 for a single keyset is unreasonable, just look at what people are paying for most Topre HiPro keyboards (which are also purchased purely for keycap harvesting). A 104UK will set you back anywhere from $350-$500 and these are the most common, far more common than a blue selectric set in fact. And there are some others which will go for above $1000!
Myoth wrote:
Paco666 wrote: thing is that I still sold one for 1500 and it wasn’t on eBay
oh yeah ? and I sold an M for 200000000usd ;)
That's being disingenuous. You and I both know that the AVERAGE price for a beamer is comfortably above $1000 these days. $1500 might seem high but it's not far above the average price, especially if it was in good condition. Most of the examples you mentioned are outliers or compromised in some way. The displaywriter you linked was a BIN, and the 3277 was missing a case (which decreases its value considerably). I have already made this point earlier, but it's worth repeating: Just because someone got lucky and happened to find a really good deal does not mean you should expect or feel entitled to the same. If you want something badly enough and don't want to leave it up to chance, you'll need to pay a premium for it. Plain and simple.

PS @just_add_coffee: I also concur that your 3101 looks awesome. I haven't decided what color that I would eventually paint my 3278, but you have convinced me that black might be the best choice to go with the blue keycaps.

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hansichen

20 Dec 2018, 21:33

Well said, after seeing the other selectric sell for a similar price I already thought that the price is (at least) kinda ok. Thanks for your insight on typewriter prices, it's really a different world.
We should really stop with this stupid bullshit about prices in the community. What's the result if prices are always bashed? People will just list their stuff on ebay and forums will die even more. When posted in a forum people will get the chance to get first dibs on a smaller market. And if you disagree you can still have your own opinion and ignore the thread.

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Myoth

20 Dec 2018, 22:12

Bass wrote:
Myoth wrote: I'd value them at something like 200usd max, I'm pretty sure the Selectric JP! linked was bought by a collector rather than a keyboard enthusiast with way too much money. And a collector surely will see way more value in a complete typewriter than just the keycaps.
You are dead wrong. I think my price breakdown above should be a sufficient explanation and it's one that's backed by typewriter experts that I have met.
Okay, but that price estimation is for an original one, would you say that IBM beamspring keycaps are worth 400usd because the usual beamsprings go for 1000usd+ ? because it's eventually the exact same situation, buy a beamspring keyboard, throw it out, sell the keycaps for 400usd since the usual beamspring goes for 1000usd or whichever absurd amount they go for ?

:thinking:
Bass wrote: I also felt urged to mention this: If anyone thinks paying $400-500 for a single keyset is unreasonable just look at what people are paying for most Topre HiPro keyboards (which area also purchased purely for keycap harvesting). A 104UK will set you back anywhere from $350-$500 and these are the most common, far more common than a blue selectric set in fact. And there are some others which will go for above $1000!
Do not even mention Topre because it's not comparable, Topre is STILL producing keyboards who can STILL use these keycaps, meaning that potentially, anyone with a Topre keyboard could want those, and god knows there are more people with a Topre keyboard than an IBM beamspring, so stop.
Bass wrote:
Myoth wrote: oh yeah ? and I sold an M for 200000000usd ;)
That's being disingenuous.ou and I both know that the AVERAGE price for a beamer is comfortably above $1000 these days. $1500 might seem high but it's not far above the average price, especially if it was in good condition.
that was obviously a joke, but I guess you didn't get it, oh well.
Bass wrote: I have already made this point earlier, but it's worth repeating: Just because someone got lucky and happened to find a really good deal does not mean you should expect or feel entitled to the same. If you want something badly enough and don't want to leave it up to chance, you'll need to pay a premium for it. Plain and simple.
I know that, that's also why I don't sell my "high-end" items, I did not put my beamspring for sale because I want to give everyone a chance of affording something like that from their own finds or own items.

I hate that "you have money, you can afford """good""" items" mentality, I know it's true but I can't help but despise it, it's a hobby, it's not supposed to be a money grab. I think the same as wobbled, it's sad to see items that were worthless before turn into huge money grabs, it's sad and I don't feel proud of this hobby when I see that. Whatever you might say, I still think beamspring are retardedly overpriced and overrated, people who buy them are either lucky and keep them are collection pieces or they're people that follow a biased individual just for their internet penis, or masochists :lol:.

Paco666

20 Dec 2018, 23:02

Whatever the reason is for people wanting a beamspring the fact is that evidently people are willing to pay for them. In the end the sellers don’t dictate the market but buyers do. If people refused to pay top dollar for stuff the prices would just fall. It’s economics, supply and demand. Plain and simple.

You can not agree all you want but shit won’t change unless people change.

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tron

21 Dec 2018, 00:22

Excellent counterexamples on both sides of the fence. It seems like the OP started high but was willing to negotiate until he was mobbed and baited into a defensive position. I don't see anything wrong with starting high if you're expecting to be low balled. There's a lot of people getting overcharged these days and they have to price high just to break even(this creates a viscous cycle but is just the nature of the economics).

Personally I think the condition puts them in the $200-300 range. Let's be honest, nobody really wants the typewriter and the donor Selectric can be recapped with a cheap "for parts" machine. Moreover, a beamspring donor can be parted out for more money than it's worth in the long run. Yes, it's probably true you could get a blue cap Selectric from Goodwill but what about the opportunity cost of checking the site everyday for months/years.

I just hope people aren't discouraged from posting rare items on this forum. At the end of the day let the market decide the value. I trust no one will pay OP's original asking price due to the condition.

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snacksthecat
✶✶✶✶

21 Dec 2018, 00:27

All I know is that I just bought a selectric for $50 and I'm pumped. I'll pretend the keycaps are green, RGB backlit, and the caps massage my tired fingers. I'll save the remainder of my paypal balance for things that really matter in life (like video game skins).

Paco666

21 Dec 2018, 01:37

tron wrote: Excellent counterexamples on both sides of the fence. It seems like the OP started high but was willing to negotiate until he was mobbed and baited into a defensive position. I don't see anything wrong with starting high if you're expecting to be low balled. There's a lot of people getting overcharged these days and they have to price high just to break even(this creates a viscous cycle but is just the nature of the economics).

Personally I think the condition puts them in the $200-300 range. Let's be honest, nobody really wants the typewriter and the donor Selectric can be recapped with a cheap "for parts" machine. Moreover, a beamspring donor can be parted out for more money than it's worth in the long run. Yes, it's probably true you could get a blue cap Selectric from Goodwill but what about the opportunity cost of checking the site everyday for months/years.

I just hope people aren't discouraged from posting rare items on this forum. At the end of the day let the market decide the value. I trust no one will pay OP's original asking price due to the condition.

First off I wasn’t expecting this to be received in such a harsh way. I really thought that this was a friendly and helpful community but honestly based on this first post I find the Reddit community to be friendlier to say the least. Although one bad experience isn’t enough to judge a whole community so I won’t be butt hurt by this. There will always gonna be haters.

Maybe I did start high but as said before I tried to set a price with some research and by what certain members told me. I was expecting to be challenged on the price and I had no troubles with that and also as said before I was open to have some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism but all this was just hateful.

Next time I’ll think twice before posting something here.

I have to thank you you Bass for your criticism and civil but truthful way to respond to everyone. I admit that I’ll be flipping these for a nice profit but if I sell lower someone else will probably grab them and then sell them higher as done with your beamspring.

Before judging someone for wanting to make money by selling something maybe you should know the reason behind the motivation. My autistic son needs some specialists help and by no way are they cheap so we go by and use money from where we can find it. So if flipping a keyboard or keycaps can get me some money for my family I’ll do it and won’t be ashamed.

I didn’t want to be disrespectful to this community in any way.

Btw I’ve already had offers above 300$

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Bass

21 Dec 2018, 02:39

Myoth wrote: Okay, but that price estimation is for an original one, would you say that IBM beamspring keycaps are worth 400usd because the usual beamsprings go for 1000usd+ ? because it's eventually the exact same situation, buy a beamspring keyboard, throw it out, sell the keycaps for 400usd since the usual beamspring goes for 1000usd or whichever absurd amount they go for ?

:thinking:
Don't really get the point of your analogy here but it seems you misunderstood how I arrived at my ~$400 estimate. If a standard refurbished Selectric I has a price of $450 while a refurbished blue keyed Selectric I has a price of $900, then the value of the blue keycaps should be around $450, since that's the only component that's significantly different between both typewriters. Technically the margin levers and platen knobs can also be blue, but the intrinsic value of those are negligible in comparison. In my quest to obtain a blue keyed Selectric of my own, I have spent a lot of time keeping track of Selectric prices on ebay, probably more than anyone else on here. The opinions of two typewriter specialists I have spoken to are also consistent with my observations. How much the damage to some of the keycaps detracts from the overall value of the set is debatable, but otherwise I am pretty confident about my estimate.

If you still aren't convinced, I can also point out that someone offered me $400 for a full set of blue Selectric caps in the past. Not that I can prove it unless that person is reading this thread and feels like confirming, but I don't really have a reason to lie either as I have no relation to the seller, nor have any intention of selling my own set.
Myoth wrote: Do not even mention Topre because it's not comparable, Topre is STILL producing keyboards who can STILL use these keycaps, meaning that potentially, anyone with a Topre keyboard could want those, and god knows there are more people with a Topre keyboard than an IBM beamspring, so stop.
I brought up Topre HiPro as an example of people paying very high prices for pieces of plastic, just to point out that such a thing isn't unprecedented. You are right to point out that the market for Topre sets is much bigger which is why even the relatively common 104UK will still go for hundreds of dollars. But maybe the idea of paying that much for any set of keycaps at all isn't really what people were struggling to wrap there heads around, so I'll leave it at that.
Myoth wrote: that was obviously a joke, but I guess you didn't get it, oh well.
I obviously know it was a joke, but it was a mean spirited one that was made to be dismiss the seller's claim of $1500 being a typical price for a 5251, when it's really not that ridiculous of a claim, especially if its in good condition.
Myoth wrote: I know that, that's also why I don't sell my "high-end" items, I did not put my beamspring for sale because I want to give everyone a chance of affording something like that from their own finds or own items.

I hate that "you have money, you can afford """good""" items" mentality, I know it's true but I can't help but despise it, it's a hobby, it's not supposed to be a money grab. I think the same as wobbled, it's sad to see items that were worthless before turn into huge money grabs, it's sad and I don't feel proud of this hobby when I see that. Whatever you might say, I still think beamspring are retardedly overpriced and overrated, people who buy them are either lucky and keep them are collection pieces or they're people that follow a biased individual just for their internet penis, or masochists :lol:.
It's not a "mentality", it's simple economics. When the hobby is at its infancy, supply will not outstrip demand and so barring the exceedingly rare stuff like F77's and space cadets, almost everything is affordable. Conversely, the hobby is starting to become mainstream now and so demand outstrips supply, so all else being equal the price of many uncommon vintage keyboards will rise as they are not made anymore. In order to get a rare item at a reasonable price, you'll need to be on the lookout for a seller that either is ignorant about the item's value or is feeling generous. There's no two ways about it. Whether or not what's being sold is "overpriced" or "overrated" is nothing more than your own opinion in the grand scheme of things. At the end of the day, the number of these boards in the hands of hobbyists should stay the same or increase, regardless of how ridiculous the price becomes.

Anyways, if you are really that concerned about the notion of selling a collector's item at a high price is something that's detrimental to the hobby, please go state your opinion in communities for other more mainstream collectible hobbies like watches or baseball cards, see what reaction you'll get. If you ask me, attacking someone over the price of an uncommon collectors item they are trying to sell is far more detrimental to the hobby and the community. If the seller's price is too high, they won't find a buyer and either lower the price or quietly walk away. Conversely, if the seller feels unwelcomed by the community over such a petty matter, they will feel discouraged from contributing, or in the worst case, stop putting any effort in find the very thing they were trying to sell in the first place. THAT is the main point I am trying to make!
Paco666 wrote: First off I wasn’t expecting this to be received in such a harsh way. I really thought that this was a friendly and helpful community but honestly based on this first post I find the Reddit community to be friendlier to say the least. Although one bad experience isn’t enough to judge a whole community so I won’t be butt hurt by this. There will always gonna be haters.
This sort of thing is not exclusive to DT, it happens on reddit and GH as well. The thread regarding Ellipse's F77 I linked earlier happened on GH, and if you look you can find plenty examples on r/mechmarket. For example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/com ... realforce/

The main difference is that reddit has strict moderation (the worst comments in that thread were deleted), while DT has almost none.
Paco666 wrote: I have to thank you you Bass for your criticism and civil but truthful way to respond to everyone. I admit that I’ll be flipping these for a nice profit but if I sell lower someone else will probably grab them and then sell them higher as done with your beamspring.
To be fair if you sell them for above $200 I doubt they will be immediately flipped since the market for these is relatively small. I would assume anyone who is giving you offers is someone who actually wants them. I brought up that point mainly to vent about my experience selling beamsprings and complaining about prices in general.

whalematrontron

21 Dec 2018, 06:16

For something to be worth anything it needs not just to be rare, but for their to actually be a demand for it. Topre Nissho Hipro keycaps can go for upwards of $1000, with the key difference between those and these being 1) hype and 2) the userbase of topre being bigger than that of beamsprings. The caps will be hard to move at any non-bargain price, because the smaller beamspring userbase means that the potential for reselling is low. There's no harm in posting an ad and seeing if anyone is interested, but if you're looking to move these in a reasonable timeframe you should probably drop the price to maybe 200 to 250 USD. That said, if you hold out long enough there just might be someone who wants them enough to pay your asking price. That's the nature of rare goods.

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wobbled

21 Dec 2018, 16:00

Bass you have way too much fucking time on your hands. Cba reading your replies.
If this price wasn't a complete fucking insult it'd be sold already. My original point stands.

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Bass

21 Dec 2018, 16:44

wobbled wrote: Bass you have way too much fucking time on your hands. Cba reading your replies.
If this price wasn't a complete fucking insult it'd be sold already. My original point stands.
I have made much longer replies than this on other forums back in my day :lol:

But whatever, I wanted to make my point loud and clear regardless of whether or not I could change anyone's mind. Hope nobody took anything too personally.

Dave_K.

21 Dec 2018, 18:35

snacksthecat wrote: All I know is that I just bought a selectric for $50 and I'm pumped. I'll pretend the keycaps are green, RGB backlit, and the caps massage my tired fingers. I'll save the remainder of my paypal balance for things that really matter in life (like video game skins).
I just did this exact thing last month ($50 + $35 ship for a Selectric 1). Its immaculately clean and works great, just needs a new ribbon. My plan was to gift it to my 6 yr old daughter who is learning to type, but I can't stop messing with it myself. Very fun.

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Polecat

23 Dec 2018, 22:02

Paco666 wrote:
First off I wasn’t expecting this to be received in such a harsh way. I really thought that this was a friendly and helpful community but honestly based on this first post I find the Reddit community to be friendlier to say the least. Although one bad experience isn’t enough to judge a whole community so I won’t be butt hurt by this. There will always gonna be haters.
I'm a nobody here, but I'm going to post my opinions anyway. And they're only that, opinions.

First, "haters" is a copout. Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion, or the way you do something, doesn't make them a "hater". And it doesn't make you right and them wrong, no matter how much your feelings might be hurt. People who used to teach, or preach tolerance seem to have forgotten what that word means when it's applied to them.

The idea that there is some predetermined price floating around out there in the ether is a delusion. As a couple people have stated already, the real price is what the buyer and seller agree on, at the moment of the sale. Change any one thing - buyer, seller, item, date, facial expression, phase of the moon, etc., and the price changes. There is no magic price. As my old boss used to say, "It's only a good deal if both guys walk away smiling." (then, when they were almost out of earshot, he would say, "...both guys go away smiling, knowing they screwed the other guy.", which changed absolutely nothing tangible about the deal...)

Regarding selling stuff on a forum where people see each other as friends, who do you invite to your Tupperware Party? "I'm giving this whole thing as a promotional expense, that's why I invited clients instead of friends." It doesn't matter what the seller's motivation, real or perceived, might be, the perceived conflict about selling to "friends" is always going to be there.

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JP!

27 Dec 2018, 15:01

Well said Polecat. I've dealt with the same conflict when considering selling to friends especially when certain boards, i.e, (beamers, blue alps, etc.) which happen to be over-hyped during a particular time period and you have comparatively little into them can certainly create an internal conflict when selling to members you view as friends. In general though I'd like to get at least what I've paid into my boards (ones I've lost interest in) which can be challenging with shipping or fees factored into this. In some cases people might either forego selling altogether or sell on eBay or /r/mechmarket. I often see other members from this forum and others skip posting on a forum altogether and list their things eBay which seems more anonymous but more than likely it will be a community member who bids on it or buys it anyhow. Unless you are a well established vendor most of us aren't as into the selling part.

PS,

I see these keys are listed on eBay now: Ultra rare blue IBM selectric keycaps for beamspring keyboards My take on these especially since they are damaged would be to take a accept a solid offer $300+ but who know what can happen during last moment bidding. Also eBay always wins since they take their cut.

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Muirium
µ

27 Dec 2018, 16:28

Indeed. I’m just as useless at selling my highly valued / little used stuff. How would I demand north of a grand for my 3278, for instance? Yet, I wouldn’t let it go for a song, either, as I’d feel robbed. So in its box it sits, like it did most all its many years.

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paddle0

03 Jan 2019, 06:02

Muirium wrote: How would I demand north of a grand for my 3278, for instance? Yet, I wouldn’t let it go for a song, either, as I’d feel robbed. So in its box it sits, like it did most all its many years.
:shock: Please go get it out of the box and use it! :)

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