IBM Model M's from IBM Manufacturing Facility

[paecific.jr]

I am working at IBM as a Systems Test Engineering intern for 8 months and they learned that I like keyboards. Thus, they took me to their old manufacturing facility and said grab any keyboard you see. I walked out with 9 Model M's. For the most part, they are in pretty good shape, they just need a very serious cleaning!

Question for you guys though, some of my keys on this board don't register until you completely bottom out. Any way to fix that? They feel almost linear!

[Myoth]

The first problem you're mentionning is probably due to broken rivets, which makes the space between the flipper and the membrane bigger and you have to press harder to press the membrane itself. You'd have to make a bolt mod to make that go away.

The second one is just use in general I think... to think that those were actually worn to the point of not being clickies anymore is impressive, the actuation life of Model Ms are benormous, and yet, someone worn them out to this point. Incredible!

BTW, there wasn't any Fs ?? disappointing

[fohat]

If the buckling of the spring does not feel right, then maybe the key stems need to be re-seated.

Pull them off and be sure to center them when you press them back into place. Sometimes it helps to tilt the keyboard all the way forward, or all the way back, to get the spring to flop into the the stem as it goes on.

[green-squid]

Holy. shit.

..you are as lucky as one can be I must say!

And straight from the Big Blue??!! Holy shit.

I'm really curious if they have anything else. IBM-PCs, PS/2, Mainframe stuff... holy shit.

I'd piss myself if I got hold of a connection like that! No joke.

[Menuhin]

... I am working at IBM as a Systems Test Engineering intern for 8 months and they learned that I like keyboards. Thus, they took me to their old manufacturing facility and said grab any keyboard you see...

Gold.

[green-squid]

... I am working at IBM as a Systems Test Engineering intern for 8 months and they learned that I like keyboards. Thus, they took me to their old manufacturing facility and said grab any keyboard you see...

Gold.

This is some serious gold

Grab everything. now.

[Scarpia]

[paecific.jr]

Holy. shit.

..you are as lucky as one can be I must say!

And straight from the Big Blue??!! Holy shit.

I'm really curious if they have anything else. IBM-PCs, PS/2, Mainframe stuff... holy shit.

I'd piss myself if I got hold of a connection like that! No joke.

I would have taken pictures, but they required me to check in my phone at the gate. There were mainframes and computers everywhere! I pulled keyboards from their stations in my hunt. I would have taken some, but I live in an apartment and have absolutely nowhere to store them.

@fohat @Myoth
I'll try reseating. I don't have many tools with me right now and a bolt mod may be too advanced for my tools.

Edit: Reseating fixed the problems!

[seebart]

I am working at IBM as a Systems Test Engineering intern for 8 months and they learned that I like keyboards. Thus, they took me to their old manufacturing facility and said grab any keyboard you see...

Ahhmmm...W H A T...!??!?

Tell us about the manufacturing facility...and don't leave anything out. Can you go back and take pictures? What other keyboards did they have there?

shock.jpg (47.42 KiB) Viewed 5435 times

[//gainsborough]

Were there any model Fs of any type?

[paecific.jr]

I am working at IBM as a Systems Test Engineering intern for 8 months and they learned that I like keyboards. Thus, they took me to their old manufacturing facility and said grab any keyboard you see...

Ahhmmm...W H A T...!??!?

Tell us about the manufacturing facility...and don't leave anything out. Can you go back and take pictures? What other keyboards did they have there?

shock.jpg

So the manufacturing facility, it was taken out of commission in 2014 if I recall from what they said. They have sold it to another company. In this move, they are throwing away/recycling a lot of old technology. When I went in yesterday it was mostly empty, I've been told that they threw out hundreds of keyboards. This is the location where they used to manufacture the Power Servers. They had a few old mainframes laying around, I remember seeing one that had an old IBM Silver badge, I forget the exact numbers because I got so excited. That's about it from that room. I found 3 keyboards in there. 2 were in a pile, 1 was connected to the original computer. Then they took me to the room where the test engineers used to test servers, this was called "The Cave". As you can imagine, I was pumped. I went into The Cave and found the keyboard that was missing the spacebar and another that was connected to an old workstation. From there they took me to a smaller test room by The Cave. Here I found 4 Model M's. This room also had no windows so I'm super pumped because these have never seen the sun. I pulled all of them from their original computers.

Sadly, I cannot go back and take pictures. There is a security checkpoint and they require that you leave your phone behind.

The other keyboards I saw weren't interesting. I found a bunch of black and beige IBM M2's that were rubber domes. I also saw the subsequent generations of rubber dome keyboards, including after they received the Lenovo branding.

[paecific.jr]

Were there any model Fs of any type?

That is a disappointed no.

[green-squid]

I am working at IBM as a Systems Test Engineering intern for 8 months and they learned that I like keyboards. Thus, they took me to their old manufacturing facility and said grab any keyboard you see...

Ahhmmm...W H A T...!??!?

Tell us about the manufacturing facility...and don't leave anything out. Can you go back and take pictures? What other keyboards did they have there?

shock.jpg

So the manufacturing facility, it was taken out of commission in 2014 if I recall from what they said. They have sold it to another company. In this move, they are throwing away/recycling a lot of old technology. When I went in yesterday it was mostly empty, I've been told that they threw out hundreds of keyboards. This is the location where they used to manufacture the Power Servers. They had a few old mainframes laying around, I remember seeing one that had an old IBM Silver badge, I forget the exact numbers because I got so excited. That's about it from that room. I found 3 keyboards in there. 2 were in a pile, 1 was connected to the original computer. Then they took me to the room where the test engineers used to test servers, this was called "The Cave". As you can imagine, I was pumped. I went into The Cave and found the keyboard that was missing the spacebar and another that was connected to an old workstation. From there they took me to a smaller test room by The Cave. Here I found 4 Model M's. This room also had no windows so I'm super pumped because these have never seen the sun. I pulled all of them from their original computers.

Sadly, I cannot go back and take pictures. There is a security checkpoint and they require that you leave your phone behind.

The other keyboards I saw weren't interesting. I found a bunch of black and beige IBM M2's that were rubber domes. I also saw the subsequent generations of rubber dome keyboards, including after they received the Lenovo branding.

Dude. Please tell me you grabbed at least a couple of machines..

[paecific.jr]

Dude. Please tell me you grabbed at least a couple of machines..

I would have, but I'm living in a small apartment and don't have room for them. I barely have room for all of these M's!

General apology to everyone who wanted a system!

[green-squid]

Dude. Please tell me you grabbed at least a couple of machines..

I would have, but I'm living in a small apartment and don't have room for them. I barely have room for all of these M's!

General apology to everyone who wanted a system!

But I understand that space is a concern. But I can fit a couple in my small room. But maybe that's because I'm wiling to dedicate more space to it.

[seebart]

I would have, but I'm living in a small apartment and don't have room for them. I barely have room for all of these M's! General apology to everyone who wanted a system!

I understand, good work and thanks for sharing. I have a feeling this is as close as we're ever coming to any IBM-internal sites and you know somewhere in the past stuff like this happened but there were tons of Beamsprings and F's that they threw out anyway...

[paecific.jr]

I would have, but I'm living in a small apartment and don't have room for them. I barely have room for all of these M's! General apology to everyone who wanted a system!

I understand, good work and thanks for sharing. I have a feeling this is as close as we're ever coming to any IBM-internal sites and you know somewhere in the past stuff like this happened but there were tons of Beamsprings and F's that they threw out anyway...

I know, as I was finding these I was hoping against hope that I could find an F or a Beamspring. Maybe I'll go check their dumpsters tonight

[green-squid]

I would have, but I'm living in a small apartment and don't have room for them. I barely have room for all of these M's! General apology to everyone who wanted a system!

I understand, good work and thanks for sharing. I have a feeling this is as close as we're ever coming to any IBM-internal sites and you know somewhere in the past stuff like this happened but there were tons of Beamsprings and F's that they threw out anyway...

I know, as I was finding these I was hoping against hope that I could find an F or a Beamspring. Maybe I'll go check their dumpsters tonight

Check them as soon as you can! If you find any old computers (or even keyboards), post it to /r/retrobattlestations (a retro computing forum)! https://www.reddit.com/r/retrobattlestations/

Cheers

[paecific.jr]

Will do!

[green-squid]

Will do!

[Menuhin]

If you find a few hundreds of Model F and Unsavers in their secret junkyard, there is no excuse to live in a small apartment any more.

But flooding the market with these rare finds will definitely disturb their market values.

[paecific.jr]

If you find a few hundreds of Model F and Unsavers in their secret junkyard, there is no excuse to live in a small apartment any more.

But flooding the market with these rare finds will definitely disturb their market values.

If I find a few hundred F's and Unsavers I will buy a shipping container!

I would also slowly and methodically release them over the span of a number of years.

[Menuhin]

...
But flooding the market with these rare finds will definitely disturb their market values.

...
I would also slowly and methodically release them over the span of a number of years.

I don't know how to do that well. I once sold rare items on eBay of worth north of almost $200 in almost every auction, but the market was very niche.
I didn't want to ask for big money, so I started selling always with a $1 starting bid. The first auction ended at around $180, and then I put out one every subsequent week afterwards, and within 10-12 weeks, the ending price was only around $40, but there were still like 30 users watching. I swear if I don't put them out on eBay, they might not have the chance to touch or to see with their own eyes any one of those in their whole lifetime. With just $40, I am not motivated to sell them any more at the moment.

On the other hand, if these treasures are just sitting at your shipping container, or take too long to be sold, they are incurring big sunk cost, especially if the container is rented.

[fohat]

The first auction ended at around $180, and then I put out one every subsequent week afterwards, and within 10-12 weeks, the ending price was only around $40,

This is very common. Sell on ebay at fixed price if you know what a realistic price is going to be.

I recommend listing at about $150 and waiting at least a week after each sale before starting a new listing. You must keep your buyers hungry and waiting. If they see the same listing week after week, there is no sense of urgency.

I wrote this a long time ago, but I still believe it:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51 ... msg1132476

[Menuhin]

@fohat

Very solid experience indeed with 1000+ sales.
I really like your words of wisdom, "Ebay is a reluctant partner with sellers, but an enthusiastic champion for buyers".

While, I agree with the 10-days getting better audience strategy, I am still sceptical about running a "reverse auction" strategy on all items. Of course, I as a seller don't want to get burnt, no one does. Low starting price and long duration of auction is also recommended by some behavioural economists. For me, hooking up more fish is very important, and a bait that is not so attractive cannot hook so many fish. But I do that only on popular items that I know have seekers always been searching for them. While I agree that I want a minimal selling price, buyers who are hooked at an auction (have placed a bid) quite often raise their final bidding price - than when they are not hooked and not really involved despite watching the auction. There are items that I don't want to list with a $1 starting bid, because they have fewer followers despite their rarity - like some of your records I believe. I may then list them at higher starting price.

There are some updates of eBay and PayPal since 2013 - we are now double charged after PayPal's separation from eBay. eBay is still charging at 13%, and PayPal charges separately during the transaction, I believe more than 3% and perhaps even higher than 10%. I was Okay with them, but now I hate them both, after I got scammed by some cunning and unruly buyers from a far-east country who abusive the "buyer-protection" policy. Long story short, these abusive buyers from the far-east ruined my items to unsaleable state, yet demanded a full refund. PayPal's policy is that they always refund buyers' request of refund based of the "item not as description" reason, and eBay is almost the same. When I asked them to look at what happened in the real world outside the Internet, with all the chat logs and screenshots and photos, their answers are, "we only know and care for things available on the Internet, e.g. tracking number". There were cases that happen to some sellers, where the buyers asked for refunds and what sent back were bricks and cardboard, and of course, still getting full refunds. According to what I have read, the only chance to reverse their decisions is when you use a lawyer. I wish I have studied law instead.

Because of being scammed by buyers I now owe eBay money - I already used the initial payments from those buyers to pay rent and other basic living expenses like health care before they ruined the items and then demanded money back using PayPal's policy. As an academic slave after my boss retirement the whole group got laid off, I have been looking for and attending interviews for another postdoc position ever since. While working on myself every day to raise my quality against the resistance coming from protectionism in industries and in the conventional academic institutions, I could only try to learn to be smarter in earning money "on the side" using online platforms like eBay.

Then if paecific.jr has 1000 Unsavers and 1000 Model F, and with the strategy (above, which I agree with) "waiting at least a week after each sale", he can sell only 27 Unsaver and 27 Model Fs per year. And it takes > 37 years to empty the warehouse, if he has 1000 pieces each. Assuming Unsaver sells at $300, and Model F sells at $150 which are totally under-estimating but if people see same rare keyboard after keyboard keeps on pumping out to the market over an extended period of time, the market will adjust too. Then an average earning per year will be $12,150 and $1,012.5 per month which is kind of enough to get by but definitely not enough to buy a house or convince someone to marry you. Perhaps also use all extra earnings to invest in some other ways.

[fohat]

@fohat

I am still sceptical about running a "reverse auction" strategy on all items.

Of course, I as a seller don't want to get burnt, no one does. Low starting price and long duration of auction is also recommended by some behavioural economists.

There are some updates of eBay and PayPal since 2013 - we are now double charged after PayPal's separation from eBay. eBay is still charging at 13%, and PayPal charges separately during the transaction, I believe more than 3% and perhaps even higher than 10%.

I run an auction when I truly do not know what an unusual item might bring, but if similar products sell consistently in a certain range, occasionally or regularly, you might as well make it easy for everyone and run a fixed price sale in that "normal" range. And I firmly believe that when buyers see similar items, readily available, they become indifferent. At that point, you must drop below the "going rate" to get their attention.

My skepticism is of ebay's advice to start auctions low - that is purely for the benefit of buyers and volume. Personally, I will pay more for a Buy-It-Now item because it is a "sure thing" and I can get immediate satisfaction.

It may be different for non-US customers, but for the small-scale transactions that I make, I think that ebay charges 10% (of the full price including shipping) and Paypal charges $0.30 + 2.9% (of the full transaction amount).

Since I have a long history and positive feedback (my single negative feedback came from a buyer in Moscow who bought a low-grade John Coltrane record (which I had described accurately) at a very low price (the cover was excellent and worth the price by itself) but who complained about the condition anyway) I may be on a better price tier than a new seller.

International sales and scams are extremely frustrating. That, and the dramatic rise in shipping costs, have made me pretty much stop selling outside the US.

[Menuhin]

...It may be different for non-US customers, but for the small-scale transactions that I make, I think that ebay charges 10% (of the full price including shipping) and Paypal charges $0.30 + 2.9% (of the full transaction amount)...

Edit: I looked that up, for Germany is 0.35€ + from 3.4% to 3.9%, with a hidden currency conversion fee if the buyer is not paying in Euro with 2.5% added to the conversion rate as their conversion fee - I therefore have the impression that PayPal has always charged more than what they mainly stated as a merely 3% - on my calculator that was always something > 7%. For eBay, they charge differently on different categories, e.g. 15% on books and DVD and some other things, 12% on two other major big categories, and 8% on electronics - so it's better to list keyboard related items under electronics other than in vintage collectibles. However, eBay charges differently if you pay them subscription fee as a seller. I also have a few hundreds positive ratings, but out of which only about fewer than 200 were me as a seller. I shall experiment with different strategies in 2018, and since being scammed, I filtered out as many as possible the potential scammers and non-paying buyers.

That is true that eBay's starting a bid low, apart from getting fish hooked, is also a marketing campaign for themselves. In the German Craigslists, which is not possible to run auction, people usually list things in unreasonably high price and demand wired bank transfer all with no return policy - it's swamped by all these bad deals and I don't bother to get things from that if I am not planning to do some risky treasure hunting.

[fohat]

For eBay, they charge differently on different categories, e.g. 15% on books and DVD and some other things, 12% on two other major big categories, and 8% on electronics - so it's better to list keyboard related items under electronics other than in vintage collectibles.

I have not paid attention to the categories very much. in recent years, almost all of my sales have been computer keyboards (which I have always sold in the "computer" category), vinyl LPs, CDs ("music" category), a few books and comics, the occasional household item or article of clothing, and, rarely, something else.

[XMIT]

If I find a few hundred F's and Unsavers I will buy a shipping container!

You kid, but... I love my shipping container!

[depletedvespene]

If I find a few hundred F's and Unsavers I will buy a shipping container!

You kid, but... I love my shipping container!

The container itself... or what's contained within it?