O-Ring 2-O (MX internal dampening)

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Jmneuv

10 Jul 2013, 14:38

O-Ring-2-O-01.jpg
O-Ring-2-O-01.jpg (116.89 KiB) Viewed 3487 times
O-Ring-2-O-02-2.jpg
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O-Ring-2-O-03.jpg
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O-Ring-2-O-04.jpg
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O-Ring-2-O-05-2.jpg
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Last edited by Jmneuv on 23 Feb 2014, 14:58, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

10 Jul 2013, 15:38

Zounds!

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hargon

10 Jul 2013, 17:11

Interesing, is it as effective as an O-Ring?

Advantage: No modifications needed for keycap changes.
Disadvantage: Removing this wont be simple.

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Jmneuv

10 Jul 2013, 17:44

hargon wrote:Interesing, is it as effective as an O-Ring?
It does absorb very well, i'm lacking any o-rings to directly compare though.
I think it's going to feel a bit different since with o-rings you bottom out on top of the switch casing.
Once i got the pcb from ting i will do a full mod for testing. Also i need to source some proper rubber, those common rubberbands are notorious for aging rapidly.

Another advantage is that you don't mess with cap seating and clearance, so you can use cherry profile with this. Should you decide to shorten the plunger to compensate for the reduced tube depth you could even manage to not lose any key travel at all.
For removing i managed to get the upper one out easily by skewering it with a needle, the 2nd one was not so easy.. that's why i'll try to find thicker rubber so i need only one - that should be easier to pick up then.

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cookie

11 Jul 2013, 17:36

If you chop that thing, how will the rubber hold inside?
Thats a pretty neat way to get rid of the bottom out sound, I planned this with my mx reds, now I just need a really good idea how to get rid of the bottom up sound?

I saw a similar post on kbdmania.net

Edit: Awww it's the stem not the casing, my fault haha :D

User avatar
Jmneuv

11 Jul 2013, 18:00

I don't see a chance to dampen the upstroke.. i've stared intently for long hours at the switches.. nothing.
One possible spot to add more rubber would be between switch bottom and pcb (just like a rubberdome sheet) this could help with sound travel through the "structure" thus also dampening the upstroke.
(i'll try that sometime).

Do you have the link to the kbdmania post?

User avatar
cookie

11 Jul 2013, 18:16

Here is the link http://www1.kbdmania.net/xe/tipandtech/122510
Their post has some interesting measurement on the cherry mx switch, maybe this could help you?

whoops wrong link, here it comes: http://www1.kbdmania.net/xe/best_article/3354636
The one I posted before is maybe interesting as well.

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Jmneuv

11 Jul 2013, 18:27

Haha those guys are amazing.. thank you.
I was convinced the tube bottom would be the regular contact point.. looks like it's actually the "rails".
Still this works with minimal travel loss given the right rubber thickness.. i'm not gonna chop off the stems.

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cookie

11 Jul 2013, 20:48

You're welcome!

I messed around with lot of different tapes to somehow reduce the upslide sound when the slider is stoppen by the upper housing. It is really hard to get pleasing results without to much impact on the key travel. The next big thing is to figure something out what's really durable. All tabes wore off within days.

A aftermarket Top housing for the mx switch could be a seller! A ordinary Top with silicon spots where the slider is landing!

Someone should figure out this thing :D

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Muirium
µ

11 Jul 2013, 21:07

<Added to my list of things for you-know-who to do with his you-know-what.>

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cookie

16 Jul 2013, 01:26

I found something relly interessting here: http://www3.kbdmania.net/xe/tipandtech/6963228

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Jmneuv

16 Jul 2013, 10:53

That's quite weird, the ring would sit under the spring.

Found some silicone sheet the other day; now only waiting on customs to release my purchase so i can put it to the test.

JBert

16 Jul 2013, 11:20

cookie wrote:I found something relly interessting here: http://www3.kbdmania.net/xe/tipandtech/6963228
So the ring should dampen the slider if it hits the tube in which Jmneuv was pushing his rubber pieces? Does it stick out that high?

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cookie

16 Jul 2013, 11:22

yes you are right, I totally forget about the spring sitting there.
I am curios to see the final result :D

JBert

16 Jul 2013, 11:27

The spring likely goes around that ring, just as the spring goes around the tube in which the slider is pushed.

User avatar
Jmneuv

17 Jul 2013, 11:01

I will not be distracted by some crazy dentists:
2.0mm dia, 1.5mm thick, hard
2.0mm dia, 1.5mm thick, hard
P1040492.jpg (226.24 KiB) Viewed 3170 times
i settled on 2.0mm diameter, 1.5mm thick, hard silicone;
2.5mm diameter / 1mm thick pads will fit tightly and not be removable; they also will compress little so a 1mm thickness is enough (else you lose too much travel) - this option feels more "professional" though;

Update: 1.5mm thickness is probably slightly too much: now on an assembled keyboard when normally typing i'm squeezing the pad only minimally (when bottoming out), thus not really 'reclaiming' any of the lost travel.
I'll try 2.0mm dia & 1.0mm thickness next. Probably something uneven like 1.2 would be perfect.

Did you know?: the 'X' in 'MX' stands for 'eXperiment' ~.~

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sordna

09 Aug 2013, 07:46

Any update? Comparison of this mod with traditional o-rings would be great!

welsinki

07 Feb 2014, 15:27

I defeinitely want to see a video of these in action.

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tricheboars

07 Feb 2014, 16:25

what is the tool used to make the little dampeners? this could be a silencing solution for SA caps!

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Muirium
µ

07 Feb 2014, 16:27

And what were the results of different depths of silicone? I've got some busted MX blacks lying around (from an ugly desoldering fight with a Tipro) to experiment with.

welsinki

07 Feb 2014, 17:51

tricheboars wrote:what is the tool used to make the little dampeners? this could be a silencing solution for SA caps!
It looks like a leather hole punch normally used to punch holes in belts.

User avatar
Jmneuv

07 Feb 2014, 18:37

Umm i can give some more in-depth answers later when i have more time. As a quick overview i can say: i love it, the silencing totally works - any switch i open up gets the little silicone pellet treatment. I finally got my hands on 1mm (exactly) silicone which is juuust barely thicker than the gap below the stem-'stick' thus just dampening while reducing travel not at all:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/221351433388
(thanks to the guy who used the thin sheet for topre)
The tool is indeed a belt hole tool - luckily the smallest of the wheel was just right (i sharpened it a little).
Please be aware however, that you will lose the typical authoritarian knock when bottoming out with plate mount switches. If you're going to miss that - watch out.. also due to the silence you'll start noticing other things like spring ringing, scratching, etc.
Key upstroke now is loudest of course, no way to dampen that.. a thick custom pcb might help in that regard.
If you guys have some patience and don't want to commit with sheets and tools yet, i could make a few packs and send them out.

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Muirium
µ

07 Feb 2014, 18:49

Consider me interested! Could be quite informative to compare different thicknesses. Being a buckling spring guy, I'm used to activation near the end of travel, for instance.

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snoopy

07 Feb 2014, 18:56

Jmneuv wrote: If you guys have some patience and don't want to commit with sheets and tools yet, i could make a few packs and send them out.
I'm interested! :)

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tricheboars

07 Feb 2014, 19:16

i am def. interested. at heart i am a blues man myself so i like the noise. I am currently waiting on a ergodox via massdrop with clears and i want to make a quieter board for the office. I am in the US though... not sure if shipping silicone dots is worth the international fee. i assume all y'all mofos are in europe on this site.

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Muirium
µ

07 Feb 2014, 19:38

Fair assumption!

(Click on the triangle beside someone's name and you'll usually see their location. Jmneuv is in Germany. I'm in Scotland. And you need to update your profile!)

O-ring damped blues are quite a nice switch. But my favourite caps are SA, which don't work with o-rings as the stem is too long. So this approach could be big!

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cookie

11 Feb 2014, 12:51

O-ring dampered MX switches are not my cup of tea. I have problems to get used to the reduces travel.

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Daniel Beardsmore

11 Feb 2014, 20:33

That was the problem I had when I tried them — it was like moving to a really bad scissor switch, squishy with short travel. The O-rings undermine the advantages of using Cherry MX switches in the first place.

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Muirium
µ

23 Feb 2014, 11:25

Jmneuv was kind enough to send me some of these 1 mm thick tiny silicone discs so I can try them myself. They are indeed pretty neat. I lined up some MX blacks in a spare plate, and tried direct comparisons between this damping method and o-rings on various caps.

O-rings lose a noticeable bit of key travel, of course. These internal dampers (I-rings?) are a notable improvement in that regard. And the damping itself is very similar. I recommend anyone interested in o-rings gives these guys a shot.

The downside is installation, of course, You have to open up your switches, and it's a tiny plug you've got to slide down a tight hole. I lucked out by finding a good sharp pin, however, and I just stab them in the middle when they're lying on my desk, and insert with that.

Typically, I'm not a switch modder. These MX blacks are sacrificial for keyboard science (they all lost a leg in The Battle of Tipro that I fought against a Slovenian army of veteran solders) so I'll try some lube while I'm at it. A bit of practice and I might even be up to the task of damping my greens.

Thanks Jmneuv!

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Jmneuv

23 Feb 2014, 14:50

You're so mean.. just stabbing them.

I'm glad you approve of the effect. (Now i'm no longer a single madman.)

I'll try to ship out some more to you next guys interested this week. (got to make them first)

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