A Japanese Keyboard Adventure

User avatar
Riceball

13 May 2020, 23:38

I picked these up a while ago from the Yahoo auctions, and now that I am finally starting to dig into them I wanted to document my findings.

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Firstly an introduction:

The blue Filco is a FKB-107j-AI (when I bought it I was hoping the Al on the end meant the case was aluminum, spoiler alert, it didn't) I'm not great at identifying alps clones, but I think these are alps.tw switches. (feel free to correct me if you think otherwise)
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The grey Macway is a TecParts TP-999KB-E using white alps
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The beige Mackey is a Sanwa Supply SKB-102MJ using black alps. It appears this one was a display model for a store window or display as it's box's top had been cut off and the pattern of yellowing makes it look like there was a card or something over the nav cluster. The box also lists a price of ¥15800.
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The beige Filco is a FKB-109J also using black alps
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All of these are "ADB" keyboards, but I have seen some references to some similar looking Filco models being sold as PS/2 compatible. My 'goal' is to see if I can get any of these working over USB with minimal effort.

My first discovery was that, based on the FCC ID, SMK appears to have been the OEM on both the Filcos and the SKB-102. I also found this blog http://rikuntyudady.blog101.fc2.com/blo ... 40608.html that shows a customized SKB with a bunch of custom PCs. so my hopes were high that I might be able to get at least those 3 working.

The my next step was to tear them down and see what I was working with. In this process I discovered I really hate the way that the Filcos and the TP-999 are put together. There are 3 screws across the bottom, and then these little tiny screws on the back side that hold the top cover in place. These little screws can be very finicky. I was able to get the FKB-107 and TP-999 apart but that little screw didn't want to come out of the FKB-109. The SKB on the other hand is seems far better built, but it uses clips to hold the top case on and I can't get the clips out. So, that leaves me at a 50% success of getting these things open so far.

The screw that defeated me Image

Inside the FKB-107 wasn't super eventful. If the FCC ID wasn't enough confirmation of SMK building the board, this should be.
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It was also dated 04 06 94. I assume that was a mold production date though, because the numbers were molded in.

The TP-999 as it turns out was hiding mild levels of keyboard gore on the inside. I was surprised how much dust and debris it was hiding on the inside given the relatively clean exterior. After a lighter cleaning then I probably should have given it I could see that the PCB was labeled Datacomp and MAC97B, so I assume that this one won't be a simple conversion.

Since I was getting tired of fussing with the cases on the other two boards I decided to jump right into trying to convert the FKB-107. For this I cut up a PS/2 cable and a s-video cable. At this point cave man brain took over and said red go to red, black go to black, etc. This didn't work and I realized I ad to actually figure out what pin was what wire.

Here's the diagram I came up with
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and after some some trial and error this is the what I came up with (PS/2 on the left, s-video on the right)
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Surprisingly this actually worked for both of the Filcos, and I figured I should write all this down before I forgot it all. The next steps will be to test all the keys on the FKB-107 and 109 to see if everything works and to try and get the SKB apart to see if SMK put a jumper in there labeled PS/2 that will allow me to switch it to PS/2 output (probably wishful thinking).

User avatar
flowerlandfilms

09 Jun 2020, 20:18

I am also on the trail of these mysterious SMK boards with various manufacturer rebrands.
Please let me know if you come across any with transparent caps.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

09 Jun 2020, 20:21

Please post pictures to the wiki if possible with any other information.

p_b

22 Jan 2022, 06:02

Hi Guys,

just managed to score an almost immaculate "Mackey compact extended keyboard", ADB interface, model SKB-102MJ. Branded "Sanwa Supply". Sold in Japan, early nineties.

Tip for tearing it apart: you have to pull out the first two lines of keys from top. You then have the possibility to disengage the "master" latches keeping the two clams together.
Plastics are thick and sturdy, but I wouldn't bet they can survive much brute force.

Anyhow, keys are definitely Alps, black, not able to tell the series.

Unit that I got was not fully functional, the ADB connectors were somehow mangled and I had to replace them.
All the rest built so well it didn't need any extra care.

Only the power button feels "out of place", in terms of ergonomics and build quality.

Anyhow, it immediately replaced my Apple Extended Keyboard II as my preferred unit for vintage Macs.

By my tastes, though, a tad too noisy for working in shared spaces.
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User avatar
Polecat

22 Jan 2022, 20:31

p_b wrote:
22 Jan 2022, 06:02
Hi Guys,

just managed to score an almost immaculate "Mackey compact extended keyboard", ADB interface, model SKB-102MJ. Branded "Sanwa Supply". Sold in Japan, early nineties.

Tip for tearing it apart: you have to pull out the first two lines of keys from top. You then have the possibility to disengage the "master" latches keeping the two clams together.
Plastics are thick and sturdy, but I wouldn't bet they can survive much brute force.

Anyhow, keys are definitely Alps, black, not able to tell the series.

Unit that I got was not fully functional, the ADB connectors were somehow mangled and I had to replace them.
All the rest built so well it didn't need any extra care.

Only the power button feels "out of place", in terms of ergonomics and build quality.

Anyhow, it immediately replaced my Apple Extended Keyboard II as my preferred unit for vintage Macs.

By my tastes, though, a tad too noisy for working in shared spaces.
Thanks for sharing that, especially the tip on opening the case! I just bought the MacOS version, Strongman SMK-97 model number, white Alps-style switches, probably clones. It's coming from Japan, so it will take a while to get here. I plan to use it on my vintage Macs (IIsi and Color Classic) since I haven't been able to find the Sejin Futaba ADB keyboard I really want.

p_b

23 Jan 2022, 01:43

Thanks for sharing that, especially the tip on opening the case!
You got to disengage the latches at the top working from the inside, it’s much easier, safer for the plastics and you will leave no marks on the visible side. Second line of keys shall be removed as the packaging is so tight that you would not be able to lift the upper frame, as it’s hinged at the bottom.
The three screws are just for securing the board to the bottom shell.
Sounds complicated, but it’s doable.

User avatar
Polecat

23 Jan 2022, 04:37

p_b wrote:
23 Jan 2022, 01:43
Thanks for sharing that, especially the tip on opening the case!
You got to disengage the latches at the top working from the inside, it’s much easier, safer for the plastics and you will leave no marks on the visible side. Second line of keys shall be removed as the packaging is so tight that you would not be able to lift the upper frame, as it’s hinged at the bottom.
The three screws are just for securing the board to the bottom shell.
Sounds complicated, but it’s doable.
Thanks again! When mine arrives I'll definitely be following your suggestions.

SK-8K

23 Jan 2022, 06:08

That Mitsumi switch is a weird choice for a power button. Maybe they had old stock laying around. Very nice boards.

Findecanor

23 Jan 2022, 06:45

That makes me suspect that they would have designed the keyboard for Mitsumi switches originally. The Power button was designed for that case, and is probably part of its' set of moulds. The keycaps are probably from another production line, or generic parts from a subcontractor even. To avoid having to modify the case's mould they kept the use of that single Mitsumi switch.

User avatar
Polecat

29 Jan 2022, 04:32

Mine arrived incredibly quickly from Japan. Immaculately clean and unyellowed. Switches are white simplified Alps. Printed caps, as expected. I haven't tested it yet, or tried to open it up (hopefully no reason to), but I'm really happy with it. Here are a couple crappy photos.

edit: Thanks again for the warnings and tips about opening these! I took mine apart today to fix a sticky Return key, and somehow I managed to avoid breaking anything. This one was definitely built after The Cheapening. Without help there's no doubt I would have damaged something. The upper case is two pieces on mine, and the upper part comes off separately after removing the three screws on the bottom, and the tiny screw on the back edge. That one took some persuasion by lifting with an Xacto knife while unscrewing. No clips on the top piece on this one, but I did remove the top row of caps to be sure. The filler between the alpha and numpad blocks had to come off to release and reset the stabilizers on the Return key, and the clips on that seem pretty fragile. I gently pushed the upper tab towards the front edge until it released. I didn't remove the lower part of the upper case, so that will be a future adventure. It's as clean on the inside as it is on the outside, so besides the SKBM switches and the cheap construction it's as good as it could be. Now I need to dig out an old Mac to see if it actually works!
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Last edited by Polecat on 31 Jan 2022, 02:18, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Polecat

31 Jan 2022, 00:55

Followup question - any advice on ADB to USB converters, like which ones do or don't work?

User avatar
jsheradin

31 Jan 2022, 00:58

Polecat wrote:
31 Jan 2022, 00:55
Followup question - any advice on ADB to USB converters, like which ones do or don't work?
I've had great luck with TMK on a Teensy. You usually need an external pull up resistor though.

User avatar
Polecat

31 Jan 2022, 02:04

jsheradin wrote:
31 Jan 2022, 00:58

I've had great luck with TMK on a Teensy. You usually need an external pull up resistor though.
Thank you! Resistor isn't a problem, more here than I can count.

Lanrefni

31 Jan 2022, 13:00

Polecat wrote:
31 Jan 2022, 02:04
jsheradin wrote:
31 Jan 2022, 00:58

I've had great luck with TMK on a Teensy. You usually need an external pull up resistor though.
Thank you! Resistor isn't a problem, more here than I can count.
QMK is also good,used it with an AEK II for a couple weeks a long time ago.

User avatar
Polecat

10 Feb 2022, 04:38

On the advice of a member I ordered a Drakware ADB to USB converter, which arrived today. Plugged it in, let Windows load the driver, typing on it 30 seconds later. That's how stuff is supposed to work!

The keyboard seems to work perfectly. CapsLock at the bottom left corner is a bit awkward, I keep hitting it with the palm of my hand, otherwise I'm quite happy with it. Alps SKBM switches are pleasantly pingy, not as subtle or light as early SKCM, but I'm going to leave them in there, for now at least.

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