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Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 19:43
by idollar
alh84001 has proposed to check if we could create a PCB for the 73X38xx, 09F4230 boards here -> post300979.html#p300979

I think that it is worth reviewing it and check if the effort would pay off.

Does anyone knows where can one find pictures of the internals of one of these ?
Or even better, where to get one at a decent price ?

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 19:53
by Scarpia
There's one on recycledgoods for around $60 if I remember correctly.

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:15
by alh84001
Quoting wcass here
wcass wrote: IIRC, the non-F unsavers are NOT Model M unsavers.
Trying to convert it to an F would be like trying to convert a Logitech to an F.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=7377.0
True. They were not even built by IBM. However, and forgive me if I'm talking out of my a$$ here, but they seem to share the same broad build-style:
1. curved plates
2. top plastic plate
3. back metal plate

I've never seen one live, let alone handled it, so I don't know the feel of these plates, their thickness and so on, so I will let someone else chime in on this.

Now, I realize that FSSK only requires PCB and controller (and as I'm in the middle of getting stuff for the XTant, I sometimes get these two kind of mixed up in my head), but still, just as a thought experiment, would it be possible to convert non-F unsavers to F a-la XTant? Would anything else be needed except top plate and PCB? Could a M122 top plate be adapted for use here?

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:18
by alh84001
Scarpia wrote: There's one on recycledgoods for around $60 if I remember correctly.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-73X3832-Key ... OSwhcJWQ58~
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-09F4230-TYP ... SwAuNW5ukt

Quite expensive.

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:20
by Redmaus
I have one. Whatever measurements you need I can provide.

I got it so I might be able to use it as an extra case for the unsaver, but I think it's too small.

I still think I am gonna cut my OG case, but if I find an alternative I will use that instead.

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:25
by fohat
I have a Model F "Unsaver" but the sticker on the back says "Model M" and it is dated 1996.

My guess is that it was serviced or refurbished at that time, stickered with a "for-IBM-by-Lexmark" sticker, and resold or sent back to its regular owner.

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:29
by Redmaus
You have an Unsaver Fohat???? :shock:

Wow nice! You have the regular version with cable, I think mine is the CAD one. I have the CAD Unsaver and the rubberdome one discussed above.

Have you converted it yet?

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:39
by fohat
Redmaus wrote:
Have you converted it yet?

I did the ANSI mod and added 3 bolts to firm up the action but I left the original controller and cable in place.

After installing a few internal Teensies, I usually just plug them into an outboard converter these days.

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:41
by wcass
Redmaus wrote: I have one. Whatever measurements you need I can provide.

I got it so I might be able to use it as an extra case for the unsaver, but I think it's too small.

I still think I am gonna cut my OG case, but if I find an alternative I will use that instead.
These 3 would help:

Thickness of the plate assembly (bottom plate - top plate inclusive)
height of switch + cap (bottom plate - top of cap inclusive)
front "lip" of switch (distance from front edge of spacebar cap to front edge of top plate)

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 21:43
by Redmaus
Should I be using calipers or something to measure?

Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 22:20
by idollar
wcass wrote:
Redmaus wrote: I have one. Whatever measurements you need I can provide.

I got it so I might be able to use it as an extra case for the unsaver, but I think it's too small.

I still think I am gonna cut my OG case, but if I find an alternative I will use that instead.
These 3 would help:

Thickness of the plate assembly (bottom plate - top plate inclusive)
height of switch + cap (bottom plate - top of cap inclusive)
front "lip" of switch (distance from front edge of spacebar cap to front edge of top plate)
And any information about the hole for the switch
We could try to take all the switches away and replace them with barrels ....

Image

Posted: 16 Apr 2016, 02:39
by wcass
Redmaus wrote: Should I be using calipers or something to measure?
Yeah, that would be best. If you don't already have one, consider getting a cheap one (under $5). We don't need high accuracy.

Posted: 17 Apr 2016, 14:43
by idollar
I have decided to open the FSSK v1.00 users manual: FSSK v1.00 - Installation & Users Manual :D

Posted: 08 May 2016, 19:08
by Hypersphere
Thanks for posting the FSSK v 1.00 User's Manual! This is greatly appreciated! Nice work.

For now, a couple of things occurred to me:

1. It seems like there ought to be a way to get a rubber mat to work in the FSSK, but I have not tried this yet.

2. Is it necessary to heat-bend the PCB, or could it be installed onto the curved plate without pre-bending?

Posted: 08 May 2016, 19:46
by need
Hypersphere wrote: Thanks for posting the FSSK v 1.00 User's Manual! This is greatly appreciated! Nice work.

For now, a couple of things occurred to me:

1. It seems like there ought to be a way to get a rubber mat to work in the FSSK, but I have not tried this yet.

2. Is it necessary to heat-bend the PCB, or could it be installed onto the curved plate without pre-bending?
from my memory someone did it without bending the PCB

Posted: 08 May 2016, 20:52
by idollar
Hypersphere wrote: Thanks for posting the FSSK v 1.00 User's Manual! This is greatly appreciated! Nice work.

For now, a couple of things occurred to me:

1. It seems like there ought to be a way to get a rubber mat to work in the FSSK, but I have not tried this yet.
My experience is that with the rubber mat between the flippers and the PCB one will get problems in registering the keys.
This is due to the uneven distribution of pressure across the board


2. Is it necessary to heat-bend the PCB, or could it be installed onto the curved plate without pre-bending?
I have not tried to mount an FSSK without bending the PCB.
The force that the PCB would do, would be to high for the plastic barrel plate. I would not recommend to test the FSSK if the PCB is not curved first.

Posted: 21 May 2016, 17:36
by idollar
I have a working FEXT prototype without any problem !!!

As it should be, I am typing this post with the first of the FEXT, based on the PCB v1.00b with the XMIT keys (which I have not tested as I do not feel like breaking the case that I have)

I will post this in various threads where the PCB is discussed.

Posted: 21 May 2016, 19:59
by Halvar
That's brilliant news! I'm in the middle of building mine, but can't do any more today. I was confident that you would have no errors in the design, but with the capacitive sensing, you never know what happens. So it's good to know you built it with success.

Posted: 21 May 2016, 21:56
by idollar
Halvar wrote: That's brilliant news! I'm in the middle of building mine, but can't do any more today. I was confident that you would have no errors in the design, but with the capacitive sensing, you never know what happens. So it's good to know you built it with success.
Thank you Halvar, It is very kind of you. This PCB was redesign to accommodate what I call the XMIT Keys. These are between the ALT and the Control Keys. To use them, one has to cut the case and somehow insert a barrel in the middle.
I think I will not do it. My boards are too good to break them :-)

I am typing with it. Still adjusting the threshold. The autocalibration reports 132. I am using 130 without problems.

Posted: 31 May 2016, 09:31
by tentator
as said i$ in the other thread, i will then first start converting my unicomp to model f with your pcb for FEXT. If you already have one I could happily test for you the xmit keys since the unicomp already has the barrels for those keys there :)
I can receive post in germany so to reduce shipping and time, just let me know.
I think I'll do this first and then at a later point think after learning this process how to do, if at all, something like an FUNSAVER (nice name eh? :)) starting from an M122 and chopping the numpad (Actually what could be done is to reuse the case from a rubber dome unsaver and cut only the barrel plate of the m122, the pcb should then be already of correct size).. yes still dreaming, but let's do it one step at a time ;)

tent:wq

Posted: 31 May 2016, 11:53
by alh84001
I see I'm not alone in thinking about the rubberdome unsaver. @tentator keep in mind that they are extremely hard to find in Europe

Re: Let's create the FSSK/FEXT = DONE !!!!

Posted: 11 Jun 2019, 12:46
by Abby
It feels so cool, I look forward to your continuous update.

Re:

Posted: 03 Jul 2019, 05:24
by wyatt8740
idollar wrote:
16 Jan 2016, 09:45
Here are the very final files that I have sent to "pcbway".
I just hope that they used this version that I submitted via email after the order was made, I added some instructions in the bottom silk layer to clarify that the pads were only in the connector.

The zip contains the deltacad, diptrace and final gerber files.
...where is the zip?

Re: Re:

Posted: 27 Feb 2020, 00:22
by idollar
wyatt8740 wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 05:24
idollar wrote:
16 Jan 2016, 09:45
Here are the very final files that I have sent to "pcbway".
I just hope that they used this version that I submitted via email after the order was made, I added some instructions in the bottom silk layer to clarify that the pads were only in the connector.

The zip contains the deltacad, diptrace and final gerber files.
...where is the zip?
You can find it here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13551&hilit=fssk

Re: Let's create the FSSK/FEXT = DONE !!!!

Posted: 27 Feb 2020, 00:30
by idollar
Hello guys,

Long time since I have not come around. I am really busy with little time to hobbies
Today I reordered my desktop resulting in a broken FSSK ! The USB cable was two short so I opened it to replace it with the longer version that I needed. The connector in the xwhatsit controller got lose and … BROKE ! This is the FSSK prototype. Yes, the very first keyboard which demonstrated that we could use F flippers in an M model.

I tried to re-solder it without success. In my desperation, I decided to cut the USB cable, search for the cables and solder them directly in the components. I am posting this in case that you suffer from the same problem one day.

Here is how the cables should be soldered:

Board.jpg
Board.jpg (101.57 KiB) Viewed 1105 times

I hope that no-one suffers from the same, but if it is the case, you may try my solution

Cheers

i$

Re: Let's create the FSSK/FEXT = DONE !!!!

Posted: 29 Feb 2020, 02:29
by DMA
i$ please double-check polarity.
According to https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/eTR858GJ the square pad (with "GND" arrow) is Vbus, and GND is the one directly opposite (top left pin of P2). That USB socket is super-easy to tear off the PCB.

Re: Let's create the FSSK/FEXT = DONE !!!!

Posted: 18 Jul 2020, 13:05
by bahimy
Hello. Finished with my FEXT recently, and I have a peculiar problem with an xwhatsit that I bought from Ellipse. I connected LED panel to the controller and the problem is that when I activate a lock the actual lock light switches off, and when I deactivate the lock the light turns on. I did not test it with the original firmware (v0.9.0), but with v0.9.1 and v0.9.2 the behaviour is the same.

Did someone faced something similar? I guess if it was a physical connection problem it would not be working at all, but it works only in strange manner, so it should be problem with the firmware. On the other hand there is not a word about such a problem on the Internet, and I do not believe no one uses locklights. Ellipse himself says LEDs should work flawlessly, because it historically did. So, I think the problem is in the firmware, but reality just counters my guess.

Please tell me how did it work for you?