Is KG-8 The RO-59 Killah?

ripster

25 Aug 2011, 19:15

We'll see. I'll be testing this stuff. KG Industries KG8, part number R608.
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KG-8 Micro P.T.F.E. Dry Lube is new technology, incorporating a highly effective proprietary grinding process. This new technology grinds the Teflon Molecule to half of its molecular weight creating a low surface tension lube. The result produces a multi purpose lubricant which greatly reduces friction and wear more effectively then the normal P.T.F.E. Use Teflon Dry Lube where a dry, no-mess lubricant is required, i.e. triggers, slides, etc... It is especially useful for conceal and carry weapons where oil can be a problem, or for hunters where a no-scent lubricant is a requirement.
Why it reminds me of spooge.
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Watery. Would make a terrible for porn - Methyl Cellulose is much better.
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RO-59 is the mysterious spoogle like substance from the east. Manufacturer Link. Japanese Link - The Source Of Magical Spooge Rumors.
RO-59's unique proprietary formula is the only bonded,
water-based PTFE lubricant
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Thanks to RiGS for pointing this stuff out.

I got it here but probably available at any corner gun shop in the USA. Or Gaddaffi's palace if it hasn't been stolen.
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I didn't find a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) so I'll just hope for the best and test on this Focus 2001 cannibalized keyboard.

The stuff dries like instantly and leaves a white powdery surface. Pretty easy to apply to the sliders without opening up.

More chemical tests to follow.
- Solvent test on keys. Kinda like a reverse of using acetone to test Spacebars. Now using spacebars to test for nasty solvents. Check the MSDS on this TriFlow Stuff - PDF link - lots of interesting stuff - better to be safe than sorry - like rubbing alchohol in Germany versus the USA.

After application to a Kinesis lasered key. Note how it eats away the lasered "paint" infill
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This is after cleaning with Isopropyl. It's all messed up. And NO it isn't slick.
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- Dump a bunch into the switch and open it up to see how effective
- Paint brush Japanese Sumi style.
- Cherry MX - a bit skeptical it makes that big a deal there.
- Need to find some good candidates though - I tend to buy NIB.

Maybe nickels if allowed.

OTHER ALTERNATIVES

Stabilant 22 is a isopropyl solvent based lubricant. Not PFTE based but Konrad has used it (see below). $85 on Amazon. I assume it's so expensive since Canadians have that socialistic Universal Health Care. Try other distributors for cheaper source.
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This sounds better but can't find a source. Another water based PFTE.
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That is a LOT of spooge!
Last edited by ripster on 29 Aug 2011, 17:45, edited 10 times in total.

RiGS

25 Aug 2011, 21:08

Nice! Can't wait to read that review.
It is the last thing you need to accomplish in order to become a real rank #1.

Please try it on linear switches and compare the friction between the lubed cherry linear switch and the 45g topre switch by slowly depressing them from different angles.

I really like the frictionless sound & feel of the Topre, but I prefer springy linear nature of Cherry blacks.
A combination of the two with slightly lighter springs would be my ideal switch.

I also kindly asked sixty to the same, but he just ignored me.

RiGS

25 Aug 2011, 21:15

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It closely resembles spooge.

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Always jerk the stem gently.

ripster

25 Aug 2011, 21:50

I wonder what Korean for "spooge is"?

I gotta go look up the MSDS info - Cherry Stems are pretty acetone resistant IIRC. You REALLY only need to hit the two sides and maybe the channels.

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sordna

26 Aug 2011, 05:17

The million dollar question is: If you just drip a bunch of it on a plate mounted switch (without opening it up), will it reach the right places / provide good results? Or will it not? Or worse, will it coat/insulate the contacts and result into a dead switch?

ripster

26 Aug 2011, 05:26

Good Test! I have a cannabilized Focus 2001 that would be good for that one.

VladTepes

26 Aug 2011, 11:21

Too bad we do not have gun shop here :roll:
However it might be easier to mass order KG-8 than RO-59tmtk

Konrad

26 Aug 2011, 12:18

Has anyone tried Stabilant 22? Good stuff, helps blow up space shuttles.

I haven't tried KG-8 or RO-59. I'll admit I own a whopping TWO mechanical keyboards, ancient M refurbs with "new" switches. I've used Stabilant 22 (actually 22A, which is the same stuff diluted with isopropyl, it costs less) for years in all sorts of critical/neurotic electrical contacts, including all the black cherries in one of the Ms. It seems to have worked perfectly, it's sadly diminished my clickety machinegun volume a little, and the keys seem to feel smoother - although my experience with mechanicals is limited and I've not made any proper comparisons with other keyboards.

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The Solutor

26 Aug 2011, 13:37

Effective teflon lubricants can be find on the car accessory shop as anti freeze lubricant for car locks.

The cheaper ones are graphite based and aren't well suited for microswitches for obvious reasons, the more expensive are PTFE based and are perfect for microswitches.

There's really no reason to look at aerospace ones or to some esoteric variants like the ones mentioned on the OP.

xbb

26 Aug 2011, 14:17

The Solutor wrote:Effective teflon lubricants can be find on the car accessory shop as anti freeze lubricant for car locks.

The cheaper ones are graphite based and aren't well suited for microswitches for obvious reasons, the more expensive are PTFE based and are perfect for microswitches.

There's really no reason to look at aerospace ones or to some esoteric variants like the ones mentioned on the OP.
Which one would you suggest? For cherry switches, something that can be found in Italy of course.
I found these but I'm not sure if they are suitable or not:
http://www.duecielectronic.it/index.php ... 1=prodotti

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The Solutor

26 Aug 2011, 15:23

the t41 you linked is surely a good product

the svitol tecnik asciutto is likely easier to find.

http://www.arexons.com/arexons/cms/auto ... iutto.html

VladTepes

26 Aug 2011, 16:08

I am after lubrificating my switches.

Spraying switches looks quite dangerous. With PCB mounted switches it would be easy to open them and spray stems only, but it is not possible with plate mounted ones.

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The Solutor

26 Aug 2011, 16:13

VladTepes wrote:I am after lubrificating my switches.

Spraying switches looks quite dangerous. With PCB mounted switches it would be easy to open them and spray stems only, but it is not possible with plate mounted ones.

Why you should spray the stems only ?

You can push the switch and llube it from the upper part, and eventually remove the lube in excess spraying some canned air.

VladTepes

26 Aug 2011, 16:32

No risk for contacts ?

I understand that graphite based lubricant would cause shorts. Is there a risk that PTFE lubcricant would isolate the leafs causing bouncy switches or no contact ?

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The Solutor

26 Aug 2011, 16:38

VladTepes wrote:No risk for contacts ?

I understand that graphite based lubricant would cause shorts. Is there a risk that PTFE lubcricant would isolate the leafs causing bouncy switches or no contact ?

I think no risk at all, a lot of switches are working completely submerged in oil, to kill the spark and give longer life to the contacts. Sparks aren't a problem here, but surely the lubricant can't made the things worse.

Konrad

26 Aug 2011, 16:49

I don't recommend spraying anything electronic. Even with that neat little straw/nozzle attached to the can you'll still end up getting goop into places you really don't want it to be. Q-tips, shammy swabs, popsicle sticks, and stolen makeup/art brushes work much better.

The sole exception being when you're basically laminating entire PCBs with conformal sealant, spray your sticky stuff all you like and get it to coat every surface and corner you can possibly reach. Does not apply, I think, to keyboards ... never heard of them suffering intermittent electrical failure due to humidity.

And I always thought those cheap little antifreeze-lock squeeze bottles were filled with some diluted form of isopropyl, antifreeze, and penetrating oil. At least they're flammable and smell like paint thinner, the ones sold around here.

I remember the good old days when you could use 1,1,3-Trichloroethane to clean those electrical contact points. Sadly replaced with wimpshit terpenes that all smell like citrus or pine. Something to do with extreme toxicity in the groundwater, damaging the nervous system, causing problems with cancers and mutations and zombies.
Last edited by Konrad on 26 Aug 2011, 17:01, edited 1 time in total.

ripster

26 Aug 2011, 16:58

This forum needs a Workshop subforum where people post their Keyboard Science Results in wiki format so I don't have to listen to the same old stuff from the same old people.

Konrad

26 Aug 2011, 17:02

I'm not old. I'm not even new. I'm recycled.

ripster

26 Aug 2011, 18:34

Hahahaha!

Keyboard science is going slow today. Typical AM at GeekWhack.org.

I decided to just keep updating the OP so talk about whatever you folks want.

And final note, beware of advice from Italians.

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The Solutor

26 Aug 2011, 19:29

Konrad wrote:I don't recommend spraying anything electronic. Even with that neat little straw/nozzle attached to the can you'll still end up getting goop into places you really don't want it to be. Q-tips, shammy swabs, popsicle sticks, and stolen makeup/art brushes work much better.
It really depends, spray may lead to some unwanted application, but in the case of a mounted switch, at least ensures that the component reach the internals evenly.

When 105 switches must be greased surely spraying the product and cleaning the excess is way more effective and quick than use a brush.
And I always thought those cheap little antifreeze-lock squeeze bottles were filled with some diluted form of isopropyl, antifreeze, and penetrating oil.
A dry lubricant contains no oil by definition, and about isopropyl where the problem should be ? It evaporates quickly and isn't hurting for plastic or for the contacts.
At least they're flammable
Most of the spray are flammable given that butane is used often as propellant, since the days of freon ban.
I remember the good old days when you could use 1,1,3-Trichloroethane to clean those electrical contact points.
Good old days, but if as contact cleaner a lot of good substitute are present, nothing match freon in reviving the hardened rubber, like the one present on the VCR's pinch rollers.

We have to thank Dupont for this as they lobbied to replace freon when its patent was lasting.

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sordna

26 Aug 2011, 19:53

ripster, just noticed in the OP you don't have old cherry boards to experiment.
I have an 18 year old Kinesis contoured, heavily heavily used but super clean/retrobrighted, with doubleshots worn down to a beautiful mirror finish, however the mx brown switches are worn (have rather noticeable friction compared to new ones). I put WD40 on one of the switches and did not help. I'm thinking to donate it to science, do you want it?

JBert

26 Aug 2011, 20:00

ripster wrote:This forum needs a Workshop subforum where people post their Keyboard Science Results in wiki format so I don't have to listen to the same old stuff from the same old people.
You can try the Deskthority Wiki. I'm sure nobody will object as long as you mark your pages with a "forefront of science" disclaimer.

ripster

26 Aug 2011, 20:04

sordna wrote:ripster, just noticed in the OP you don't have old cherry boards to experiment.
I have an 18 year old Kinesis contoured, heavily heavily used but super clean/retrobrighted, with doubleshots worn down to a beautiful mirror finish, however the mx brown switches are worn (have rather noticeable friction compared to new ones). I put WD40 on one of the switches and did not help. I'm thinking to donate it to science, do you want it?

How about sending me just a few switches? You can PM me here or at Geekhack (added you to contacts list).

ripster

26 Aug 2011, 20:05

JBert wrote:
ripster wrote:This forum needs a Workshop subforum where people post their Keyboard Science Results in wiki format so I don't have to listen to the same old stuff from the same old people.
You can try the Deskthority Wiki. I'm sure nobody will object as long as you mark your pages with a "forefront of science" disclaimer.

You haven't seen how bad my HTML skills are. I have only now finally learned proper YouTube tagging here and URLs still drive me nuts.

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The Solutor

26 Aug 2011, 20:32

sordna wrote:I put WD40 on one of the switches and did not help. I'm thinking to donate it to science, do you want it?
Don't use WD40 on worn plastics, it makes the things worse.

xbb

26 Aug 2011, 21:55

ripster wrote:
And final note, beware of advice from Italians.
Is this below a good advice ripster? I'm sure it is!
The Solutor wrote:the t41 you linked is surely a good product

the svitol tecnik asciutto is likely easier to find.

http://www.arexons.com/arexons/cms/auto ... iutto.html

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lal

26 Aug 2011, 22:40

Konrad wrote:Has anyone tried Stabilant 22? Good stuff, helps blow up space shuttles.

I haven't tried KG-8 or RO-59. I'll admit I own a whopping TWO mechanical keyboards, ancient M refurbs with "new" switches. I've used Stabilant 22 (actually 22A, which is the same stuff diluted with isopropyl, it costs less) for years in all sorts of critical/neurotic electrical contacts, including all the black cherries in one of the Ms.
Not bad :)

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webwit
Wild Duck

26 Aug 2011, 22:55

The pros use the red stuff!

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Julle

27 Aug 2011, 00:17

Those guys reminded me of people who paint Warhammer figurines. Anyway, what exactly is this mysterious red stuff?

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webwit
Wild Duck

27 Aug 2011, 00:32

Julle wrote:Those guys reminded me of people who paint Warhammer figurines.
I tried to troll them about that earlier, but it didn't work. I forgot what the red stuff was, I think RO-59 or something homebrew, they use it in all their switch fests. Maybe one of the Koreans members here can shed some light on the issue.

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