(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[Techno Trousers]

I don't really mind what it says for the Win keys. Meta and/or Super, maybe?

[Vizir]

Yes, the brilliant white would look amazing. I'd prefer a non-OS specific icon or wording on the win keys. Meta and super are perfect.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[BinaryHalibut]

Speaking of extra bits, is there an ETA for cases (resin/metal/something)? I'm interested in a TKL MF but won't have anything to put it in....

[lot_lizard]

Speaking of extra bits, is there an ETA for cases (resin/metal/something)? I'm interested in a TKL MF but won't have anything to put it in....

Got PM'd about this very thing today. I think we are going to let Phosphorglow do his experiments on a resin case for the SSK. Given his track record, there will be something there, but doubtful it is in time for the GB. I will say this, if for some reason that falls through, or gets pushed out too far... We will be making metal cases (might do it eventually regardless). For sure a case will come along, but it will almost definitely be after the drop-in phase 1 group buy. I want to wrap this phase 1 stuff up as quick as we can to get it off our plates going into the holidays.

[lot_lizard]

Keep in mind before looking at this, that we are dealing with a 1u cap for the "winkey", so things like Meta/Hyper/Super are a bit crowded.

But speaking on a higher level... and I really do like 7bit's work, but we have somehow turned Space Cadet (an OBSCURE LISP reference) into something meaningful. It is VERY far from platform independent... though it is sexy.

MOD (for modifier) makes considerably more platform agnostic sense. Or if we are trying to stick to something actually driven by IBM... "037" for the EBCDIC code page which they really pioneered in force. The hackers nightmare because it might as well be BIDI hex, and the reason the AS/400 (in considerable financial use even today) has never actually been exposed to a virus.

I am certainly open to other ideas... but I do want to avoid the SA Space Cadet imposed ideas. Even a Richard Harris tribute (RH, the buckling spring patent image (a bit busy), or the patent number (also busy) would be more desirable to me). Hyper/Meta is the equivalent of making a "Jobs" or "Gates" key. Super has become tied to the "winkey" over time, but I'm not exactly sure why without researching.

The upside to the "MF" key, those that didn't want it as a "winkey" could use as the Esc. Just thoughts... This is a community project, not a dictatorship, so I am up for the thoughts of others and we will elect what the community would like to see. The image below would need a bit of work, but a general suggestion.

I do think I will start a SEPARATE GB for these Selectric caps very soon. It will be ran as a "don't pay me until we hit our numbers" kind of buy. Those that want it shipped with their MF later can save on shipping, but Hajime might need several weeks to put this together for us, and I don't want our project delayed by caps. This is one piece we should actually open up to GeekHack right away to get the numbers we need I think. If you have selling clout there, and are interested in this... PM me

mfKeycap.png (11.47 KiB) Viewed 4694 times

[Techno Trousers]

Should we do MF and BS [Buckling Spring]? Both are meaningful to this project, have humorous alternate connotations, and are small. I could go for the good old Fn as well, and I have no objection to Mod. Maybe we should provide all of those options. Most group buys have more keys than can be put on one keyboard, to cover different tastes.

[Techno Trousers]

Also, you might want to design the usual "forum keys" (DT, GH, /MK)

[Wodan]

Just got my SSK. I am officially waiting now!

[lot_lizard]

Let's do this... We run the GB for the Selectric set now, without anything tied to the project. Again, if folks are planning joining the project, I will ship out later with their MF. The only way you can get an MF key later (its design still needs work) is to participate in our phase 1 group buy (should be 1-2 bucks a key). Then we are decoupling it with any Selectric set obligation.

For the Selectric, let's keep it simple for visual appeal. The set looks lovely, and don't want this to clash. I think I like:

• MOD for the left. Reasoning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifier_key
• APP for the right. Reasoning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? ... direct=yes

These feel very generic to me, and describe their purpose. MENU just sounds too "Windowsy". FN is too "Maccy". CONTEXT abbreviates badly (4 character limit I think to look nice). And PANEL is just weird outside of the 3270 (plus PNL reminds me dreaded financial terms).

Thoughts?

Just got my SSK. I am officially waiting now!

Nice... We are getting close. Just waiting on the foam samples, and a few small odds and ends to harden and test (PCB, controller, box pricing, etc). I THINK we are still tracking to start the GB by month end unless something unforeseen pops up (coming weeks for sure). Starting to feel like 7bit (not sure if I used those correctly)

[andrewjoy]

Just got my SSK. I am officially waiting now!

Nice , soon you can throw away the crap that came inside the loverly SSK case and put a real keyboard mechanism inside it

[Wodan]

Nice , soon you can throw away the crap that came inside the loverly SSK case and put a real keyboard mechanism inside it

Hell yeah! Model-M is the Cherry MY switch of IBM!

Nice... We are getting close. Just waiting on the foam samples, and a few small odds and ends to harden and test (PCB, controller, box pricing, etc). I THINK we are still tracking to start the GB by month end unless something unforeseen pops up (coming weeks for sure). Starting to feel like 7bit (not sure if I used those correctly)

Whoot whoot! You're not 7bit unless you make us order through PMs and permanently try to recruit PayPal collectors...

[andrewjoy]

Hell yeah! Model-M is the Cherry MY switch of IBM!

Be glad you said MY, ML are loverly and by far the best tactile switch cherry make and i will have nothing bad said about them.

In fact cherry are the MY of the cherry MX mount world , all the clones are better.

Back on topic .

I would prefer blank meta keys or the MF logo things.

Can we possibly get other colours for the MF keys (orange) , they can all be ordered form unicomp blank and they are exactly the same size so it should just be the same process

[fohat]

Keep in mind before looking at this, that we are dealing with a 1u cap for the "winkey", so things like Meta/Hyper/Super are a bit crowded.

With all those trashed Model Fs there are a lot of fun 1u caps left over, even if they don't relate directly to "meta" activities.

Jump - Space - Clear - Play - Help - Roll - Field - Attn + all manner of non-verbal legends and non-English languages

[E TwentyNine]

Just got my SSK. I am officially waiting now!

Nice , soon you can throw away the crap that came inside the loverly SSK case and put a real keyboard mechanism inside it

Quiet in the peanut gallery. The M BS switch is still a great one, better than most, and I sometimes prefer its softer mechanism over the cap BS. Sportbike vs. cruiser, depends on the day...

[E TwentyNine]

Keep in mind before looking at this, that we are dealing with a 1u cap for the "winkey", so things like Meta/Hyper/Super are a bit crowded.

With all those trashed Model Fs there are a lot of fun 1u caps left over, even if they don't relate directly to "meta" activities.

Jump - Space - Clear - Play - Help - Roll - Field - Attn + all manner of non-verbal legends and non-English languages

I do wonder what interesting caps might be floating around, maybe something else to throw into the GB as an option.

[lot_lizard]

Just to be clear... This MOD / APP winkey combination bit is only for the Selectric key set. It would be the same font as CTRL and ALT, centered on a 1u like the rest of the set. This is just so that set from Hajime would be complete (the themed caps below in the spolier), and wouldn't be something we have made later as part of the group buy for our project. Think of this Selectric mini-GB as a little bonus that is completely independent. I am going to start it very shortly so he has time to make them, and could save some of you on shipping if you wanted it shipped later with our project.

Spoiler:

For the group buy of MF phase 1... You will supply your own for caps. The MF key might be something we do for fun though as a novelty cap. We can have Hajime worry about those later though as a separate order. All Unicomp colors below would be available, but the image will always be darker than the cap it goes on (dye-sub). He can print in many colors

image.jpeg (69.51 KiB) Viewed 4607 times

[lot_lizard]

Just posted this over in Great/Interesting Finds...

It dawned on me after posting that this concept might be fun for Phosphorglow's resin SSK remakes. I sent a note to the seller to see if his sister was interested in doing a few of these (or something else) for giggles. She certainly is talented. He's going to check with her

Spoiler to save a click... This is hand painted btw

Spoiler:

[phosphorglow]

That is gorgeous!

OK. Small status update is due I suppose.

Plaster bandages will be arriving today so that I can re-do the support shell with better material. Once that dries I'll do another casting. With the better support I'm 99% certain I'll end up with something I'm quite happy with. Once happiness is attained, I'll start pouring the mold for the bottom shell. So, by the end of the week I should have the first test casting of that. I won't put a timeframe on cranking these out since that has a habit of backfiring on me. But, I'm feeling rather optimistic about it... So, without actually saying it, the answer is "yes". Or "42".

I've contacted Innovative Polymers about the application for the resin and my main concern about long term UV degradation and fading of colors. All polyurethane resins are susceptible to UV, but some are more stable than others and different additives can be used to resist it. Darker pigments are better for long term fading. These concerns are probably years down the road, but I'm concerned nonetheless. Painting blocks the UV, but painting resin is a bit nuanced. I'll likely have three methods in use to choose from:
- Pigment only with a UV stabilizer, no paint. Again, darker colors will be best here.
- Painting. Both of the following involve applying paint to the mold before pouring the resin so that the cured resin bonds directly to the paint:
* Specific paint colors.
OR
* Bare automotive primer so that custom painting like that sexy faux wood finish can be attained later by someone who can actually paint.

(In addition to the strong bond, painting the mold itself is nice because you don't lose detail/texture like you would when painting a finished piece.)

For giggles and kicks I wanted to see how badly paint with no primer would adhere to cured resin. I already knew the answer before trying it, but I wanted to know from first hand experience, and that answer is: very badly.

After basically ruining that initial test piece by painting it, I decided it was time for physical abuse. I repeatedly spun it into the air and let it come crashing down on the cement floor. After about 10 times it finally snapped in a thin section. After a few more times another thin section finally broke. Then I bent it over my knee and after about 20 degrees of flex I was able to snap it in half.

So! As long as you don't intentionally attempt to repeatedly break it, it's not going to break. Also, the resin I want to use is stronger than the resin I used in this test piece.

(Also, I'll start pouring the molds today for the feet.)

[phosphorglow]

Oh! Controllers.

Have the PCBs arrived from OSHPark? I got the USB pigtails from wcass. I still need to inventory what components I still have on hand, but the sooner I can get to soldering these little fellas the better.

(Also, do we have a status of the other port options? If we want to merge our efforts, I'm already extremely pleased with USB-C/Mini/Micro on my controller. Especially USB-C. It's so snazzy.)

[phosphorglow]

Oh! Oh!

By chance is the laser engraver capable of doing metal...?

I'd be curious if you could modify the top of the front, eliminate the oval, or do something like what's in my avatar but with MMF. Or better yet - customizable. Can I get one in green metal flake resin? How about a faux marble look? Lots of possibilities...

That could make for one snazzy little oval badge if possible. I could also experiment with making some resin badges, including a blank textured one... Actually, casting them with either a raised or embossed logo would be possible as well. If someone could send me a design to play with that would be swell.

(Also, yes, there's TONS of fillers/flakes/additives/possibilities that I've been drooling over but haven't played with yet.)

[lot_lizard]

Haven't you been a busy little beaver. That's awesome progress, and great ideas on the case finishing options. Just curious, how many of these could be made in a week without sacrificing quality of the product, or (more importantly) your quality of life?

Have the PCBs arrived from OSHPark? I got the USB pigtails from wcass. I still need to inventory what components I still have on hand, but the sooner I can get to soldering these little fellas the better.

They did... late last week. I will get those in the mail to you today. Thanks again for putting those together for us.

(Also, do we have a status of the other port options? If we want to merge our efforts, I'm already extremely pleased with USB-C/Mini/Micro on my controller. Especially USB-C. It's so snazzy.)

Actually... USB-B is the only one my tiny noggin can comprehend putting together. Do you mind if I send you one of each of the remaining daughter boards (USB-C/mini/micro) along with the controller PCBs? Once I have a finished product there, I will finish the port covers for the other 3. Let me know what you have in mind for merging. I would love to minimize variations where it made sense (saves everyone time and cost)

By chance is the laser engraver capable of doing metal...?

Indeed... It is registering 42 watts vs the 35 it is supposed to output (the joys of the American versions of these toys). At that, it would have no issues etching into many metals. Even those that it wouldn't etch, it could certainly laser mark with a chemical film applied before hand (like Cermark/Thermark). There will be metals that it would have zero chance with though (like Aluminum). Typically there the aluminum is anodized before etching, and the etching just removes the anodized finish. I have done several test runs with it already (cutting mostly 3/8 inch plywood, and etching some ceramic and glass). It is calibrated really well, and ready for some heavy lifting. Would be happy to experiment with anything you dream up.


The 3D printer filaments were delivered on Saturday as well, but haven't had a chance to play with them yet.

[E TwentyNine]

On the engraver.... I believe the answer is "mess", but what happens if you try to engrave an MF keycap? Is there a less intense setting that could be done in stages and be effective?

[E TwentyNine]

Oh! Oh!

By chance is the laser engraver capable of doing metal...?

I'd be curious if you could modify the top of the front, eliminate the oval, or do something like what's in my avatar but with MMF. Or better yet - customizable. Can I get one in green metal flake resin? How about a faux marble look? Lots of possibilities...

That could make for one snazzy little oval badge if possible. I could also experiment with making some resin badges, including a blank textured one... Actually, casting them with either a raised or embossed logo would be possible as well. If someone could send me a design to play with that would be swell.

(Also, yes, there's TONS of fillers/flakes/additives/possibilities that I've been drooling over but haven't played with yet.)

What I was thinking of was eliminate the oval indent completely, and make a square indent on the right side where I could insert a metal badge. Maybe with custom printing, instead of IBM Personal Computer:

MMF
Motherfucker

(or something a little friendlier)

Square badge MMF.

[lot_lizard]

On the engraver.... I believe the answer is "mess", but what happens if you try to engrave an MF keycap? Is there a less intense setting that could be done in stages and be effective?

I was curious about that myself last night after posting that image. I didn't take a pic, but better than I expected with wild ass guesses. I think if you got some proper dye, you would be able to dial it in reasonably well. After 6-7 different experiments (wide range of speed and power), it eventually became too messy. But this was just a blanket raster, no pattern. You could get results similar to Apple/Cherry lasered caps if you adopted a similar fishbone pattern I think. I would prefer a dye too though


EDIT: disclaimer... I don't think I could ever get it to do what Rajime is pulling off with his proper dye sub setup

[Techno Trousers]

EDIT: disclaimer... I don't think I could ever get it to do what Rajime is pulling off with his proper dye sub setup

Unless you bought your OWN dye sub setup!

Evil thought planted. Muahahaha!

[E TwentyNine]

EDIT: disclaimer... I don't think I could ever get it to do what Rajime is pulling off with his proper dye sub setup

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding. I'm talking laser engraving, ala http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/ ... ycaps.html (but with alphanumerics, full keyboard).

Maybe you could laser deep enough to get a fill and presto - "double shot" mf caps...

[lot_lizard]

Just a SUPER quick experiment over lunch today (working at the home office) to give you guys an idea. This is literally with the default engraver settings (which are ~25% for rastering/engraving). For giggles, I used a child's crayon for my "dye". I have ordered Cermark, but it isn't here yet. Hopefully it is obvious, but pigmented wax of various thickness is probably about as a bad of a dye as possible (defuses the beam as it passes through the muddy puddle of wax). Was curious though. Also, I didn't take the time to cleanup the image itself (just shrunk from 400px to 30px), so this test was already doomed to fail. I really just wanted to know how well the pigment would "stick"

The M obviously had no chance, but the F turned out a little better than I figured it might. With some experimentation of speeds and laser power (note that laser power is also controlled by the gradient of the image as well... so light gray gets hit with a lower wattage at the same speed than would say black). It's not just a "hit this whole thing on 15 watts this time". So you can really dial in if areas of the image that are being hit to hot (mostly because of neighboring engraving areas transferring heat).

With some tuning, I think we could be close to interesting. Might play a little more this evening after I clean the image up. The original is SVG, so I will go back to it to scale down. Should have nice sharp lines, and will play with the wattage points to bring down the "heavy areas" in the M background. Again, we will still be using a crayon mind you, so a big leap can be made there later in quality

The scaled down 400px to 30px blurry disaster (again, this thing had no chance)

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Child's crayon with a REASONABLY even coat

FullSizeRender 3.jpg (508.5 KiB) Viewed 4484 times

The result after wiping with industrial solvent

FullSizeRender 4.jpg (473.42 KiB) Viewed 4484 times

[E TwentyNine]

AAAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha yes, I see the potential there.

What resolution source image do you need? Vector?

[lot_lizard]

What resolution source image do you need? Vector?

I have what I posted yesterday afternoon as a SVG in source, but was lazy over lunch. I was really curious more than anything if the F would grab the pigment well.


What I have will scale down well. The more difficult part will be getting the surface temperatures even. It is why the F turned out well, and the M was a bit murky. Shouldn't be bad at all, but I am grateful we are only talking about one key. If it is effective in the end, we would line up 20+ keys at a pop and say "go". That would certainly help keep our temperatures consistent (cools down while the next 19 are touched) as long as I can get the laser to not do a serpentine pattern (always left to right)

[E TwentyNine]

Would some kind of hi-res halftone dot approach give more control?