[Done] CommonSense: matrix LCR meter with a HID interface

PancakeMSTR

20 Aug 2019, 22:40

DMA - Just wanted to let you know, tried the new source since your last commit, no change in behavior. Still can't get output outside of FC no matter what I do.

Also, now when I start up FC the "UNSAFE" indicator is lit up red and I can't get "Scan" or "Output" to stay green (I get the "Scan module has gone insane and had to be shot!" error). I tried that trick DMA mentioned where you open up Key Monitor, then click "Scan." I then applied the acquired thresholds and the "Unsafe" indicator went back to being grey/off. But then, if I do an upload and a commit, then uplug the Cypress and plug it back in (A) I get no output with Flight Controller closed, and (B) when I reopen FC the "UNSAFE" indicator is back to being red.

So something isn't persisting through an unplug/plug cycle, even though the layout and the thresholds do appear to be persisting.

DMA

21 Aug 2019, 00:12

PancakeMSTR wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 22:40
Also, now when I start up FC the "UNSAFE" indicator is lit up red and I can't get "Scan" or "Output" to stay green (I get the "Scan module has gone insane and had to be shot!" error).
That's noise/grounding issue. Docs tell what to check in that case.
Also it's good that it trips - it will bring down the host if it didn't.
PancakeMSTR wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 22:40
I tried that trick DMA mentioned where you open up Key Monitor, then click "Scan." I then applied the acquired thresholds and the "Unsafe" indicator went back to being grey/off. But then, if I do an upload and a commit, then uplug the Cypress and plug it back in (A) I get no output with Flight Controller closed, and (B) when I reopen FC the "UNSAFE" indicator is back to being red.
That trick - as described in README, I might add - is there for you to see what's going on in the matrix - and fix abnormalities you found.
But your comment does not mention what's going on in the matrix. That's just sad.

PancakeMSTR

21 Aug 2019, 00:43

DMA wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 00:12
PancakeMSTR wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 22:40
Also, now when I start up FC the "UNSAFE" indicator is lit up red and I can't get "Scan" or "Output" to stay green (I get the "Scan module has gone insane and had to be shot!" error).
That's noise/grounding issue. Docs tell what to check in that case.
Also it's good that it trips - it will bring down the host if it didn't.
Where? All it says is that "it's likely a ground problem," bit I don't know what ground problem to fix?
Also my grounds are the same since trying this source code and the old one: both the Cypress and the PCB are grounded to the chassis. Is that the right way to have it grounded?
DMA wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 00:12
PancakeMSTR wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 22:40
I tried that trick DMA mentioned where you open up Key Monitor, then click "Scan." I then applied the acquired thresholds and the "Unsafe" indicator went back to being grey/off. But then, if I do an upload and a commit, then unplug the Cypress and plug it back in (A) I get no output with Flight Controller closed, and (B) when I reopen FC the "UNSAFE" indicator is back to being red.
That trick - as described in README, I might add - is there for you to see what's going on in the matrix - and fix abnormalities you found.
But your comment does not mention what's going on in the matrix. That's just sad.
I mean...okay.... I was using it because I couldn't get Scan or Output to stay green. I don't know what to say about the matrix - it's fine? Like it's behaving no differently from when I was using the previous source. What do you want to know about the matrix?



And nonetheless, something I'm committing is NOT persisting. Let me outline the behavior

- Plug in Cypress/Beamspring (Micro USB)

- Open FC:

Code: Select all

16:49:05.557 Acquiring device
16:49:05.753 Found a node!
16:49:05.754 Downloading config.. [64]
16:49:05.911 done, unpacking...
16:49:05.912 Configuration changed.
- "UNSAFE" is red, "Setup" is yellow, everything else is grey.

- Open Key Monitor. Set "Min," "Start", Press "Scan." (Scan and Output are now green, Setup is Yellow, UNSAFE is red).

- Let values stabilize, then, "Stop!", "Set Thresholds." Close key monitor.

- Open Threshold Editor, press "Apply"

- Config->Upload. "UNSAFE" goes grey.

- Turn Setup off.

- Action-> Commit to EEPROM

Code: Select all

Loaded threshold map
16:52:08.871 Loaded threshold map
16:52:22.839 Loaded threshold map
16:53:01.730 Uploading config.. [64]
16:53:01.893 done!
16:53:01.902 Applying config..
16:53:26.610 Updating EEPROM GO!
16:53:26.611 Written 72 bytes!
- Now, with FC OPEN, I can move to another window (e.g. the search bar for google chrome) and get output from the beamspring. It spams the keys though (I guess this will be the next problem to solve, if I ever get through this one).

- Close FC, still getting output (key spam).

- Unplug Beamspring/Cypress. Wait a moment, plug it back in: NO OUTPUT. It won't even spam keys at this point, it just goes completely dead.

- Open FC:

Code: Select all

16:57:14.022 Acquiring device
16:57:14.219 Found a node!
16:57:14.220 Downloading config.. [64]
16:57:14.368 done, unpacking...
16:57:14.368 Configuration changed.
- Setup is yellow, UNSAFE is red.

- Start process over.


I also really don't understand why it's spamming keys. Let's say I've set the thresholds nicely, so that in the Thresholds editor when I press "Q" it lights up only element (2,5) yellow. Furthermore, FC (as far as I can tell) sees only one keypress. Looks like this:

Code: Select all

17:02:45.415 #  2  5
17:02:45.601 ·  2  5
Okay so now I turn "Setup" off/grey. I then go to a different window, a text editor, whatever. I press the "Q" key. "Q" is then typed, and then maybe about .75s later, "Q" is spammed 18 times. Why is the behavior inside FC different from outside FC? Why does FC only see one keypress, but (for example), google chrome sees "Q" spammed 18 times?

PancakeMSTR

21 Aug 2019, 06:28

Okay so this is sort of interesting.

I go through all the steps I outlined in my previous comment. I'm at the point where I've uploaded the config to EEPROM.

I close flight controller and (usually, not always) can get output from the keyboard at this point. Spamming keys, as usual.

Now, I unplug the keyboard, specifically by unplugging the micro usb cable from the cypress and then plugging it back in. No output, ever.

BUT, if I unplug the OTHER end of the USB cable, the one plugged into my computer, and plug it into a new USB port, I get output. It spams keys, which I also don't understand, but I get output nonetheless.

So...Why? Why is it that if I unplug and replug the cypress on the micro usb end, I get no output, but if I leave the cypress plugged in and change USB port on my computer, I get output?

DMA

21 Aug 2019, 06:43

PancakeMSTR wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 06:28
Now, I unplug the keyboard, specifically by unplugging the micro usb cable from the cypress and then plugging it back in. No output, ever.

BUT, if I unplug the OTHER end of the USB cable, the one plugged into my computer, and plug it into a new USB port, I get output. It spams keys, which I also don't understand, but I get output nonetheless.

So...Why? Why is it that if I unplug and replug the cypress on the micro usb end, I get no output, but if I leave the cypress plugged in and change USB port on my computer, I get output?
I was telling you at least 5 times by now. UNSAFE means effing unsafe. Fix that, firmware is protecting your computer from exploding because of key spam. THIS IS NOT IN EEPROM. THIS IS DETERMINED AT SCAN START.

As for "min" - where's your curiosity? There's "Now" setting - and it's a default setting.
Go look what happens in the matrix RIGHT NOW. Try to figure out what MIGHT cause it - nobody will do it for you.

---- I'm officially ignoring any "it doesn't persist" and "I get it working but when I replug it my settings are lost" shit from this point below. ---
There is NO problem of settings not persisted. There IS a problem of user being totally uncurious and not willing to do due diligence while using experimental software and hardware.

PancakeMSTR

21 Aug 2019, 15:44

Hey, let's just relax. This is a frustrating problem for both of us.

I understand that "unsafe" means the keys are spamming, what I don't understand is how to fix that problem. My grounds are setup to spec, and the I'm using settings on FC that were with the previous source not giving me "unsafe" but are now.

It's not that I'm not curious, it's that this software is complicated, I didn't develop it and so don't understand it very well.

I can go look at the what the matrix is doing under the "now" setting, but that doesn't mean I will be able to deduce from it's behavior what the problem is. I don't know what I'm looking for.

Regardless of settings persisting or not, it still doesn't tell me why if I unplug the Cypress from the micro USB and plug it back in I get no output, but if I unplug the cable from my computer and plug it back in, leaving the micro USB end plugged in, I do.

Additionally, I don't understand why, after having set thresholds appropriately in fc, such that fc indicates NO keyspam as far as I can tell, I get key spam outside of fc. Why is that?

You can choose to not help me if you want, I'll keep working on it myself and continue posting updates here, but the sooner you help me resolve these problems, the sooner you'll stop hearing from me.

DMA

21 Aug 2019, 17:13

go stare at matrix output. All you'll ever need to fixing the scans is there. If you're not able to deduce from that info what's wrong - there's nobody in the world to help you.
And, since you're not curious, pro tip. Go touch wires as you look at matrix outputs. That will change behavior. THINK about those changes. Try to fix.

Or just abandon the thing - this project is not for "just wanting to convert my beamspring" type of people - at least at this stage.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

21 Aug 2019, 17:19

Not to stir trouble, "but…"

There's a bit of an 'unstoppable force meets immovable object' vibe to this thread! I think you two should chill with some cold beverages, and then Pancake does *exactly* what DMA says, without trying to improvise. It's DMA's baby, after all, and Pancake's keyboard.

For what it's worth, CommonSense looks formidable to me, too. It's the nature of the mighty beast. Follow the master.

PancakeMSTR

21 Aug 2019, 17:42

DMA wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 17:13
go stare at matrix output. All you'll ever need to fixing the scans is there. If you're not able to deduce from that info what's wrong - there's nobody in the world to help you.
Yeah, EXCEPT FOR YOU. That's why I'm asking - nay - PLEADING for your help! WHAT AM I LOOKING FOR???
DMA wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 17:13
And, since you're not curious, pro tip. Go touch wires as you look at matrix outputs. That will change behavior. THINK about those
changes. Try to fix.
What does this mean? Again, WHAT AM I LOOKING FOR? WHAT AM I TRYING TO FIX????? All I can do is follow all the instructions - which I've done to the best of my ability, and IT'S NOT WORKING. I didn't make this software, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT.
DMA wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 17:13
Or just abandon the thing - this project is not for "just wanting to convert my beamspring" type of people - at least at this stage.
I guess that's my only option, since you refuse to help me now. I AM just trying to convert my beamspring. What the hell else do you think I'm trying to do here? Literally ALL I want is to convert my beamspring.

And STILL you haven't addressed
  • - Why FC is essentially indicating that everything is working, i.e. when I press a button on the keyboard while in FC, FC indicates a single keypress, yet outside of FC, the same keypress generates one character output, then that same character repeated 18 times after a roughly 1 second delay. Note that this is true for EVERY SINGLE KEY. The "key spam," if that's even really what it is, is not AT ALL random.
  • - Why I get output from the keyboard when unplugging and replugging it on the computer side, but not the cypress side.


@Muirium I would LOVE to follow DMA's instructions and do EXACTLY, WHATEVER he tells me to do, but he's not giving instructions I can follow. Also he's basically called me "lazy" and now just told me to give up on the project. Like thanks, great on you, just tell people to give up when they start having problems.

I have tried, desperately, to be very polite throughout all my exchanges here. All I care about is getting my beamspring working, not getting into petty arguments, but DMA is constantly antagonizing and insulting, and seems to assume everyone is an idiot because they can't look at his code for five seconds and understand how it all works. And when someone, like me, runs into trouble, it's somehow OUR fault, not his.

But I don't care. If DMA could just give me CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS, rather than some vague and nebulous comment like "if you can't look at what's going on in matrix monitor and understand what's wrong just by staring you're totally hopeless," then I am TOTALLY dead in the water.

Looks to me like I'll never get this thing converted. So much for my beamspring I guess.
Last edited by PancakeMSTR on 21 Aug 2019, 17:56, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
snacksthecat
✶✶✶✶

21 Aug 2019, 17:47

@PancakeMSTR

Have you tried different usb cable(s)? Are you using a usb hub? These are a few things that have tripped me up in the past with stuff like this.

No clue if these will actually help but wanted to share my experience. I will try to think of other things as well.

PancakeMSTR

21 Aug 2019, 17:48

snacksthecat wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 17:47
@PancakeMSTR

Have you tried different usb cable(s)? Are you using a usb hub? These are a few things that have tripped me up in the past with stuff like this.

No clue if these will actually help but wanted to share my experience. I will try to think of other things as well.
I've been using the same cable this whole time, but I have tried different USB ports and different computers. I'm not on a hub, but I will give a different USB cable a try.

Wow - instead of helping me, DMA put a passive aggressive comment in the source about how "curiosity is required" to get this working.
CURIOSITY REQUIRED TO PROCEED
If you're not curious how this all works and "just want to convert your beamspring" - turn around now.

Nothing but sheer frustration lays on this path for you. This firmware/hardware is not for you, sorry about that.

Find someone how is curious about how things work or walked this path before and entice them to do it for you.

You have been warned.
At WHAT point have I said "Fix/Do it for me"? And wtf does DMA want me to do, sit there and figure out how the entire project works? And, I'm sorry, but this software is EXACTLY for people who "just want to convert their beamspring," it's just WORKED for everyone else so they don't have anything to say.

I have a life, I have other things that I work on, I don't want to spend all of my goddamned time trying to work through a conversion process the instructions for which are "figure it out yourself," and yet I'm STILL willing to put tons of effort into this, but it's pointless if I don't get any assistance. Hell, that's why I tried the xwhatsit first and shied away from CommonSense, because it looked too difficult to get working. The ONLY reason I'm trying to get commonsense working now is because I have no other choice.
Last edited by PancakeMSTR on 21 Aug 2019, 18:05, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
swampangel

21 Aug 2019, 18:05

PancakeMSTR wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 17:42
I have tried, desperately, to be very polite throughout all my exchanges here. All I care about is getting my beamspring working, not getting into petty arguments, but DMA is constantly antagonizing and insulting, and seems to assume everyone is an idiot because they can't look at his code for five seconds and understand how it all works. And when someone, like me, runs into trouble, it's somehow OUR fault, not his.

But I don't care. If DMA could just give me CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS, rather than some vague and nebulous comment like "if you can't look at what's going on in matrix monitor and understand what's wrong just by staring you're totally hopeless," then I am TOTALLY dead in the water.
The flip side of this is that DMA has *given* you a huge amount of work that he has done, *for free*, and when you want him to write more detailed docs, you are asking for more free tech support.

I know it's upsetting -- I get frustrated the same way, absolutely -- but if you need his help, you have to play by his rules. Otherwise the next time he builds something cool he'll just keep it to himself to save the headache.


For me -- as a developer, not someone who knows about commonsense -- what I want when troubleshooting is *specific* information. Your post above with the FC output is the right idea. Take more screenshots, try to show exactly what's happening in FC when a key is pressed, not pressed, show what thresholds you're setting, show what happens if you increase/decrease those thresholds. Try to create a minimal case where you've only got like 2 keys defined on your base layer. Record a screencast. These are just some ideas, the idea is to remove the guesswork so people can give you specific suggestions "try changing X to Y".
Last edited by swampangel on 21 Aug 2019, 18:14, edited 2 times in total.

PancakeMSTR

21 Aug 2019, 18:07

swampangel wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 18:05
PancakeMSTR wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 17:42
I have tried, desperately, to be very polite throughout all my exchanges here. All I care about is getting my beamspring working, not getting into petty arguments, but DMA is constantly antagonizing and insulting, and seems to assume everyone is an idiot because they can't look at his code for five seconds and understand how it all works. And when someone, like me, runs into trouble, it's somehow OUR fault, not his.

But I don't care. If DMA could just give me CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS, rather than some vague and nebulous comment like "if you can't look at what's going on in matrix monitor and understand what's wrong just by staring you're totally hopeless," then I am TOTALLY dead in the water.
The flip side of this is that DMA has *given* you a huge amount of work that he has done, *for free*, and when you want him to write more detailed docs, you are asking for more free tech support.

I know it's upsetting -- I get frustrated the same way, absolutely -- but if you need his help, you have to play by his rules. Otherwise the next time he builds something cool he'll just keep it to himself to save the headache.
I am NOT asking him to write more detailed docs. I FOLLOWED THE DOCS, to the ABSOLUTE best of my ability. I'm asking for help diagnosing WHY my following the instructions isn't working.

And what are his rules? Insult people? Tell them they aren't "curious" enough or are too "plebian" to get their beamspring working?

Jesus christ, the top of the source readme now basically says "If you're too dumb to figure this out, go away, you're not going to get any help." With that kind of attitude, he might AS WELL have kept this work to himself.
swampangel wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 18:05
For me -- as a developer, not someone who knows about commonsense -- what I want when troubleshooting is *specific* information. Your post above with the FC output is the right idea. Take more screenshots, try to show exactly what's happening in FC when a key is pressed, not pressed, show what thresholds you're setting, show what happens if you increase/decrease those thresholds. Try to create a minimal case where you've only got like 2 keys defined on your base layer. Record a screencast. These are just some ideas, the idea is to remove the guesswork so people can give you specific suggestions "try changing X to Y".
Happy to do it. Here's what I will do - I will record a screen cast of all the steps I outlined in that comment above. Of course, there's no guarantee that DMA will actually respond to that with anything but perniciousness.

kmnov2017

21 Aug 2019, 20:55

@PancakeMSTR
Lets do a screen share session later today.

PancakeMSTR

25 Aug 2019, 04:45

Okey dokey.

Let's get this out of the way: I'm typing this comment on my beamspring.

I wish I had some "Eureka!" moment or discovery, but all I did was rewire everything to a brand new Cypress spare that arrived a few days ago.

I do not know what happened. What I do I know is that because I was having trouble getting three columns to register I wired them to auxiliary pins, which required removing some components from the cypress. I'm guessing the problems I was having were due to one of or any combination of the following: I damaged my cypress in the process of removing the parts, the cypress wasn't designed to have those parts removed, or the code wasn't designed to deal with the cypress having those parts removed.

Beyond that, I just simply don't know.

With that out of the way:

I wanted to give a huge thanks to this community for working with me on this, especially @kmnov, without whom I almost certainly would not have gotten this far. You really stuck with me through this, and I really can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

@DMA
Having now gotten my beamspring working, after intense frustration, some of it due to my interactions with you, I still don't feel right about putting you down. Without your work, I really would not have gotten this thing working. What you have given to this community is no doubt invaluable.

However, I think you could really, really benefit from an attitude readjustment. There is almost no doubt to me that all of us here are intelligent, curious, hard working people, but without being a true savant, it is not at all a simple task to look at the work of someone else and understand how it functions. As the developer of commonsense, you are likely the only existing expert on it, and as curious people, that is why we go to you so often with questions on it.

For everyone else intimidated by using CommonSense to convert your beamspring: It's really not that bad, and you have a wealth of people at your disposal willing to help you get it working when or if you run into trouble.

User avatar
snacksthecat
✶✶✶✶

25 Aug 2019, 04:49

PancakeMSTR wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 04:45
Let's get this out of the way: I'm typing this comment on my beamspring.
Congrats dude! Let's hope it doesn't "change it's mind" and go back to how it was acting before.

PancakeMSTR

25 Aug 2019, 04:54

snacksthecat wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 04:49
PancakeMSTR wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 04:45
Let's get this out of the way: I'm typing this comment on my beamspring.
Congrats dude! Let's hope it doesn't "change it's mind" and go back to how it was acting before.
Eep let's hope not! I don't think it will though. I think there was just something wrong with the previous Cypress I was using.

PancakeMSTR

25 Aug 2019, 20:06

If anyone wants to help me get layers working, I'd appreciate it. I'm having trouble with them.

kmnov2017

25 Aug 2019, 20:23

For layers, in “layout”, click layer 1 then click switch. Define your layout for each layer. Keep the Fn keys consistent in each layers. Once you define layers, click apply. It’s a good idea to export and save the layout should you want to do a quick import later.

Go to layers in FC and then assign what Fn key should trigger what layer. Once set, click upload config and then commit.

The above method only sets FN layers that requires a Fn key to pressed for accessing layers. For lock layers, I haven’t configured my keyboard yet for that. But the logic is the same. Set one (or more) of they keys as Lock Key. The lock key functions the same way as the FN key, except when you press a Lk key the layout will be "locked" or set "permanently" for the corresponding layer. To toggle back to the base layer, you may need to press the LockKey + appropriate FN key to go back to the base layer.
Last edited by kmnov2017 on 27 Aug 2019, 02:37, edited 2 times in total.

DMA

26 Aug 2019, 00:37

@swampangel: High five, man. I don't even ask to "play by my rules" - just to do due diligence with experimental/prototype hw PLUS sw.

@PancakeMSTR those "curiosity required" warnings are not for you - you got sucked into this anyway and got your dose of frustration and angst I can't do anything to fix that now. This is for the next "just wanting to convert mah beamspring" guy - who will, hopefully, heed the warning and avoid suffering.

As for "at what point I said fix it/do it for me" - it's kind of too numerous to list here. Reread your comments. You were behaving as the worst tech support's nightmare.

But here's the funny part: you haven't paid for that support. You just had expectations that I owe to support you - for free - for the hardware I don't even have.
And guess what? I don't. The software is over here, the controller hardware is over there, your keyboard is in your hands, and it's up to you, ultimately, to make it work.

And this is not the first case of such behavior - it's a second. I just hope I made docs clear enough so there won't be a third.

NOTE - if there will be custom hardware (it doesn't look there will ever be, but I had enough nevers in my life) - things will be different. Simply because number of free variables will be DRASTICALLY lower.

But for now - before embarking on this journey check you have enough curiosity in case this turns into a Research Project.
And a spare controller. I bought 5 initially. 2 of those are dead (because there are macbooks with killer USB ports), and one is untouched.

PancakeMSTR

26 Aug 2019, 16:08

Okay DMA, if you want to play me the asshole, then that's how you want to do it and there's nothing I can do to change that. I will say that I don't appreciate being called "the worst tech support case ever," especially when all I was trying to do was get help when your converter wasn't working for me. And I'll continue to say it, you could really benefit from an attitude readjustment.

Finally, if you really have that much of an aversion to helping people, especially for free, then, don't? Though we are all likely capable, you dont seriously expect every person coming here trying to convert their beamspring to take the time to understand every nook and cranny of your software, right?


You know, I just realized something. There is no question, DMA has put in a huge amount of free work to enable us to convert our beamsprings or other capacitively sensed boards. And I think that's great, fantastic! What a wonderful thing to give to the community. But, he is not the only one doing work. The flip side of this is that those of us trying to use CommonSense to convert our beamsprings are putting in tons of effort essentially doing beta testing and quality assurance for him. Only in the hands of users can problems in software be identified enough to bring it to its fullest potential, and we are all working to do this for DMA totally for free. Companies and devs pay out the ass for this kind of testing, and we are doing it only out of interest in getting our keyboards working, and we are probably doing it better than if he were paying us.

So with that said, I'm not seeing much appreciation for us, the testers, and this whole "DMA has provided a bunch of free work" argument isn't working too well for me.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

26 Aug 2019, 17:47

That’s open source software. Someone puts in the work to create something, and gives it away for free. Others can help out if they wish. No money changes hands. Well, except in this case, to Cypress (or whoever it is) who sells the commodity priced hardware this project runs on.

Kind of hard to see who DMA owes anything to. His software doesn’t work the way you’d like? You think you can improve it? You’ve got the skills and time and want to give your derived work away for free?

He might be making something you want to use, but he’s not exactly your employee! His time and interest does not belong to you. But yours does.

PancakeMSTR

26 Aug 2019, 18:11

Muirium wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 17:47
Kind of hard to see who DMA owes anything to.
He doesn't. But that's not my point, or my problem. My point is that we are providing information to DMA on how to improve his product by reporting on issues we encounter, and my problem is that instead of being appreciated for that, we are belittled and blamed for what are faults in his work.

If DMA were smart, every time we report a problem he would say "Let me look into that", and if he's feeling extra nice, "thanks for letting me know about it," and try to fix it, just as we thank and appreciate him for providing CommonSense to us. All that is is normal behavior, open source or not.

Although, to be fair, that kind of exchange of information is exactly what I would call "open-source."
Muirium wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 17:47
He might be making something you want to use, but he’s not exactly your employee! His time and interest does not belong to you. But yours does.
No of course he's not our employee, and no his time and interest doesn't belong to us. But, again, that's not my point. What DMA fails to realize is that he has a very valuable resource in us, just as he is a very valuable resource to us.

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

26 Aug 2019, 21:21

Open source does not mean you get to randomly decide receiving free tech support for your free software is actually you doing "quality control work."

Beyond unreasonable position to try to turn someone helping you into you helping them and demanding satisfaction for that.

PancakeMSTR wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 16:08
So with that said, I'm not seeing much appreciation for us, the testers, and this whole "DMA has provided a bunch of free work" argument isn't working too well for me.
DMA didn't provide a bunch of work, he provided all the work.


Regardless, I have found a guide that helps with your issue here

PancakeMSTR

26 Aug 2019, 21:56

SneakyRobb wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:21
Open source does not mean you get to randomly decide receiving free tech support for your free software is actually you doing "quality control work."

Beyond unreasonable position to try to turn someone helping you into you helping them and demanding satisfaction for that.
I'm not demanding anything at all. And if you think my position is unreasonable, then that's your prerogative. I still feel that we taking his work and putting together manuals for it, testing it, and reporting issues (even if under the context of requesting help) is information that could be used by DMA, and possibly others, to improve CommonSense.

I fail to see the difference between what we are doing and "testing CommonSense."
SneakyRobb wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:21
PancakeMSTR wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 16:08
So with that said, I'm not seeing much appreciation for us, the testers, and this whole "DMA has provided a bunch of free work" argument isn't working too well for me.
DMA didn't provide a bunch of work, he provided all the work.


He did a lot, the majority, of the work, but I can think of some people who might think of that as a pretty unfair statement.
SneakyRobb wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:21
Regardless, I have found a guide that helps with your issue here
I'm trying to be polite and courteous in voicing my opinion, in the interest of respecting this community. I'd appreciate being afforded the same treatment. You can have your opinions about me and my opinions, but I'm going to ignore them unless they are voiced in a considerate manner.

User avatar
XMIT
[ XMIT ]

27 Aug 2019, 03:12

Come on guys, chill. Go read the Tact Filters article if you've not seen it before. https://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html

DMA does this because he wants to. He also focuses on technical stuff since that's the fun, hard stuff. Support is less fun. Don't ask what DMA can do for you, ask what you can do for DMA. Though that doesn't give someone license to be a jerk. I don't think he's being a jerk here, though.

It is really weird that different versions of the Cypress kit have different behavior. It would be good to root cause that.

PancakeMSTR I don't know your background but this is the Wild West of keyboard work. Stuff breaks. Stuff doesn't work. It's all about the right mindset.

The last time I remember being this upset with a keyboard it was my FSSK, and all the trouble I had running down grounding issues with it. I still don't fully understand why I had to ground the Space bar. I definitely want to try CommonSense at some point. Perhaps when I do I'll have something more meaningful to say.

tigpha

27 Aug 2019, 15:26

Thanks for the "tact filter" reference XMIT.

Just to add: this is a *hobby*, something we all do in our own time and when we have spare energy. It's not a trade, nor barter or any other exchange, but a *gift*, and should be accepted as such. Y'know, gift horse and mouth and all that?

I'm still mystified at my mistakes made with DMA's magical Common Sense, but it's upon me to learn and practice -- I can't possibly expect DMA to provide even more than the huge gift he's already given!

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SneakyRobb
THINK

27 Aug 2019, 15:48

Spoiler:
PancakeMSTR wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:56
SneakyRobb wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:21
Open source does not mean you get to randomly decide receiving free tech support for your free software is actually you doing "quality control work."

Beyond unreasonable position to try to turn someone helping you into you helping them and demanding satisfaction for that.
I'm not demanding anything at all. And if you think my position is unreasonable, then that's your prerogative. I still feel that we taking his work and putting together manuals for it, testing it, and reporting issues (even if under the context of requesting help) is information that could be used by DMA, and possibly others, to improve CommonSense.

I fail to see the difference between what we are doing and "testing CommonSense."
SneakyRobb wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:21
PancakeMSTR wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 16:08
So with that said, I'm not seeing much appreciation for us, the testers, and this whole "DMA has provided a bunch of free work" argument isn't working too well for me.
DMA didn't provide a bunch of work, he provided all the work.


He did a lot, the majority, of the work, but I can think of some people who might think of that as a pretty unfair statement.
SneakyRobb wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:21
Regardless, I have found a guide that helps with your issue here
I'm trying to be polite and courteous in voicing my opinion, in the interest of respecting this community. I'd appreciate being afforded the same treatment. You can have your opinions about me and my opinions, but I'm going to ignore them unless they are voiced in a considerate manner.
Sorry for the outburst. Tact filter engaged.

PancakeMSTR

27 Aug 2019, 16:11

tigpha wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 15:26
Just to add: this is a *hobby*, something we all do in our own time and when we have spare energy. It's not a trade, nor barter or any other exchange, but a *gift*, and should be accepted as such. Y'know, gift horse and mouth and all that?
I think xmit narrowed it down to the main point: none of that gives anyone a license to be a jerk.

Feelings aside, I cannot get layers to work. I've set a key to have one function on the base layer and another function on layer 1, and that key just takes on the layer one function, instead of having two functions depending on the layer you're in. My configuration is identical to someone who's layers are working fine.

Also I can't get my layer mods settings to persist beyond layer 1.

I'll post some pictures and maybe a video later.

tigpha

27 Aug 2019, 16:22

Please persist my good Pancake Master. You have already reached further than I was able. Your tribulations may serve to enlighten me, and save me frustration from future obstacles when I eventually resume tinkering with Common Sense :-)

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