Split ergonomic keyboard project

[sordna]

What I did was map all the keys I could with regular keypresses. That took care of most of my needs. For the rest (certain special keys, etc) I used right click, and selected the desired key from the menu. I was able to do my desired layout pretty quickly.

[AloisiusFauxly]

Huh! I guess I should RTFM.

@gdaian - I can hit ctrl+alt+del pretty easily with an inch of wrist movement:

Spoiler:

[sordna]

Where did you get the ErgoDox so quick??

[AloisiusFauxly]

A little birdie sold me a couple of prototype boards late last year.

[Zeppelin]

is ergodox pcb cad drawing (or some else format) available, or only designers of the board have drawings?

[mintberryminuscrunch]

looks like the cad files were removed from http://ergodox.org? hm?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?....

[gdaian]

Thanks for the kinesis feedback. It looks like I'll be going for a 78-key board (splitting "space" and "backspace").

AloisiusFauxly you're welcome to make us all very jealous by posting more pics.

[Tafryn]

I mocked up the dvorak layout I posted several months ago in the massdrop configurator. It's not clear how the layer toggle keys will behave (toggle on key-down and key-up, or just on key-down), nor does it look like you can toggle layers on each side separately. I guess those features will have to be added manually.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 46ed86c48d

[regack]

I mocked up the dvorak layout I posted several months ago in the massdrop configurator. It's not clear how the layer toggle keys will behave (toggle on key-down and key-up, or just on key-down), nor does it look like you can toggle layers on each side separately. I guess those features will have to be added manually.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 46ed86c48d

Ok, I'm not an expert, so I could be misinformed. From the simple keypad I made using a Teensy 2.0 each layout of the matrix is a separate layer/mode. So, because everything is in one matrix, if you wanted a mode with just one hand changed, you'd have a layer that alters just part of the matrix.

With the 3 "layers" you have, if you want it to feel like they are individually toggled, you'll end up with 9 combinations, and thus 9 distinct "layers".

It is probably possible to write firmware to handle changing just part of the matrix, but I don't believe that what is there now will be able to handle that.

L0 R0
L0 R1
L0 R2
L1 R0
L1 R1
L1 R2
L2 R0
L2 R1
L2 R2

[dox]

looks like the cad files were removed from http://ergodox.org? hm?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?....

The PCB files were never there. I have to ask bpiphany for the latest version and I will add the link.

[ic07]

The PCB files were never there. I have to ask bpiphany for the latest version and I will add the link.

Dunno if you have it already, but here's the post where litster put his case design files up - in case you were planning to add those too.

I mocked up the dvorak layout I posted several months ago in the massdrop configurator. It's not clear how the layer toggle keys will behave (toggle on key-down and key-up, or just on key-down), nor does it look like you can toggle layers on each side separately. I guess those features will have to be added manually.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 46ed86c48d

I get the impression (without having tested) that "toggling" layers will activate on press and deactivate on release; "push" should activate (probably on press) only, and "pop" should deactivate (probably on press) only.

And it's true that you can't change the layer on only part of the matrix at a time... But you could put each hand's modifications on different layers, and switch to them that way. The only thing that setup would keep you from doing is activating both layers at the same time with a single key - but even that will be possible once school lets me get to implementing macros.

It is probably possible to write firmware to handle changing just part of the matrix, but I don't believe that what is there now will be able to handle that.

It would be possible indeed - and I used to have it that way - but it was a bit more complexity than it was worth, I thought, considering that you can do the same thing with transparent keys + layer stacking + macros (which I was already planning to implement), and reduce SRAM usage at the same time, at only the cost of a small paradigm shift in layout design and slightly higher PROGMEM usage (which for the moment we have plenty of).

[Tafryn]

I get the impression (without having tested) that "toggling" layers will activate on press and deactivate on release; "push" should activate (probably on press) only, and "pop" should deactivate (probably on press) only.

And it's true that you can't change the layer on only part of the matrix at a time... But you could put each hand's modifications on different layers, and switch to them that way. The only thing that setup would keep you from doing is activating both layers at the same time with a single key - but even that will be possible once school lets me get to implementing macros.

I missed transparent keys on my first run through. Thanks for pointing those out. I think that copious use of transparent keys will allow per-side toggling of layers. I've changed my dvorak layout accordingly.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... a38d0ee940

You could have up to 4 independently stackable layers per side using this method. However, you'd probably want to arrange your layer-switching keys in more of a round-robin fashion if you had that many layers instead of the stair-step fashion that I have in this layout.

[judascleric]

I switched to using sticky keys a few months back and I would highly recommend it. Sticky keys are a good solution to chording gymnastics such as ctrl+alt+delete on ErgoDox because you don't have to press the keys simultaneously. Also, the tap twice to lock feature of sticky keys can be really convenient for repetitive chorded commands (zoom, advance cursor by word, next find result, etc.) and typing in caps (when you have remapped your caps lock for VIM or Emacs). It was fairly intuitive and only took me a day to get used to and I haven't looked back.

One downside is that if you are typing sloppy and hit the wrong modifier or double tap, you have to cycle through the states to clear sticky modifiers. Mac has a good sticky key state visualization that makes this easier to correct. Windows does not display the states as prominently by default but I don't use a widows box often enough to try to fix it.

When I get my ErgoDox I plan to write my own firmware with hardware level sticky key support. The two big gains I am designing for are multi-state layer modifiers (none-oneuse-locked) for symbol and numpad layers and a reset modifiers key to clear sticky states in one press rather than cycle modifiers individually. I have been using and tweaking a variation of this setup for a symbol layer sticky key with a TrulyErgonomic keyboard, PcKeyboardHack, and KeyRemap4Macbook for 3 months that I have been very pleased with and I am excited to get a few more keys to play with on the ErgoDox thumb cluster than I have with the TE.

[BugBuster]

A bit off topic and it's Friday anyway: what strikes me when I'm reading about all these layers, transparent and sticky keys and macros - we don't need to have strong passwords for computers equipped with such keyboards, no intruder is ever able to type the password in even if he knows it
Unless he comes with his own keyboard Or finds your old normal keyboard in the closet... so don't ever store normal keyboards at home and your are already protected better!

[sordna]

Haha, that's how it is with me, Kinesis Advantage keyboards, in Dvorak layout, but with QWERTY keycaps. Nobody can type anything on them!

[heuristicist]

I like it when my OS interface is as obfuscated as that. I have KDE setup so that, with no windows open or with all of them minimized, there's nothing at all visible except the desktop backgrounds. You have to press a mouse button to get to the task list, clock, tray, and other widgets, that hover over everything else. I use text launchers, too, and almost never use the task list/etc. myself except to check the time. It's just amusing to see people come to my computer and have no clue what to do. I smile at the thought of what it'll be like with an ErgoDox with blank keycaps ;p

[Zeppelin]

offtopic/
About teensy....is it possible to program macros on the fly (like on focus fk8200), with out use of other software?

[7bit]

offtopic/
About teensy....is it possible to program macros on the fly (like on focus fk8200), with out use of other software?

Yes.

[ne0phyte]

I like it when my OS interface is as obfuscated as that. I have KDE setup so that, with no windows open or with all of them minimized, there's nothing at all visible except the desktop backgrounds. You have to press a mouse button to get to the task list, clock, tray, and other widgets, that hover over everything else. I use text launchers, too, and almost never use the task list/etc. myself except to check the time. It's just amusing to see people come to my computer and have no clue what to do. I smile at the thought of what it'll be like with an ErgoDox with blank keycaps ;p

KDE is never minimalistic though. If you want minimalism try xmonad or awesomewm + dmenu + bar or dzen

[7bit]

I'm using Windowmaker!


It looks like NeXT, so no microsoftish taskbar here!

[Zeppelin]

And one more question about teensy....what is maximal number of keys?

[7bit]

102 if you do a 6x17 matrix (23 pins). It is possible to use 2 extra pins which are otherwise used for 2 LEDs.

Teensy++ can handle way more.

[Soarer]

Maximal number of keys for n pins: floor(n/2) * ceil(n/2)

So, for 23 pins: 11 * 12 = 132

Teensy only has one LED, but the other (25th) I/O pin is awkwardly located in the middle of the PCB.

Anyway, far easier to write code for an 8 x something matrix, so: 8 * 15 = 120

[dox]

PCB files and litster case files added to http://ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx

[Merijn]

You might not believe me, but I was looking for litster case files twenty minutes ago when you hadn't added them yet Thanks

[heuristicist]

I like it when my OS interface is as obfuscated as that. I have KDE setup so that, with no windows open or with all of them minimized, there's nothing at all visible except the desktop backgrounds. You have to press a mouse button to get to the task list, clock, tray, and other widgets, that hover over everything else. I use text launchers, too, and almost never use the task list/etc. myself except to check the time. It's just amusing to see people come to my computer and have no clue what to do. I smile at the thought of what it'll be like with an ErgoDox with blank keycaps ;p

KDE is never minimalistic though. If you want minimalism try xmonad or awesomewm + dmenu + bar or dzen

I want minimalism plus modern styling and compositing. So... KDE

But enough OT. Hail ErgoDox, etc. etc. ;p

[gdaian]

@judascleric: You just made me start using sticky keys, and so far I love it. Very easy to get used to, it simply allows you to be a little lazy and spares you those awful finger contortions. I hope you release that firmware with the features you describe!

[Dan]

This is awesome, is there a commercial version planned or this will remain a DIY only project?

Do you know if this can be made to function wireless?

ps: it would be even more awesome if it could have integrated mouse control on each pad, in the form of pointing sticks. One for each hand.

[nesiax]

Sorry for invade into this thread i am posting this into geekhack and deskthority ergodox's threads.

I have made a firmware for the key64 keyboard that i would like to share with you , i don't know if it could be useful for people who have been playing with the ergodox now but anyway is a free firmware that you can adapt to your needs.

The firmware have been in a testing phase for a while, it contains all the features described at the design page of the key64.

This initial firmware is a keyboard profile that compiles on top of the amazing tmk_keyboard firmware developed by Jun Wako a.k.a. "hasu" with some modifications.

For those who are interested please see the downloads page, then follow the instructions on how to compile the firmware.

I would like to finish the keyboard but my time is very limited, i know the ergodox have more fans than the key64 and it got the interest of the community the key64 fail to achieve; but if someone wants to collaborate with us we need a help with the design of the case, right now it appears more like a batman's keyboard, my idea initially was to make a wood case using a series of lasered cuts in wood one over the other and also a pcb plate to gain more stability , i see people prefer plastic, but i think (and is my personal opinion) wood give you a feeling of relaxation and is also a beautiful material.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

[sordna]

Thought I'd post some photos that were emailed to the MD GB participants today. Lot's of aluminum! Although I won't be getting any of it; a while back, before the GB ended, I changed my order and am getting both my keyboards with acrylic cases (one classic, one full hand).