Seeking Soarer - evidence thread

esr

25 May 2021, 21:41

Various works by Soarer that are important to this community are distributed only in binary form. Soarer vanished around 2014. Which is a problem, because Soarer's hex blobs cannot be debugged or improved.

I am a relative newbie here on DT, but I've been a tactile-keyboard enthusiast for a long time. Some of you may remember the Tactile Keyboards community I ran on G++ before Google let G++ die. Before that I was the founding president of the Open Source Initiative; as such, I have a lot of experience wrestling with IP law. I also have skin in the game, as I'm using a Soarer's Converter on a Model F and the fact that I can't mod the code makes me twitchy.

Soarer has now been disappeared for over 7 years, which would be sufficient time in most relevant jurisdictions for a declaratory judgment that he is legally dead. Soarer's binary code has been decompiled. It's time to clear up the murk around Soarer's code and create circumstances under which his work can be carried forward using the decompiled source issued under a proper open-source license.

I believe this can be done at low cost and risk, and have assembled some help in doing so - an attorney and an IP compliance officer at a hyperscale Internet company. I'll let them introduce themselves when they deem it appropriate.

First, though, we need to publicly assemble a collection of facts. I'm going to list some questions. Some of these have answers which have been communicated to me privately; some do not. These are questions we need to answer in public and on the record to document the good-faith effort that Anglo-American law requires in situations resembling this one.

Answers should be accompanied by reference links. We do not want hearsay, speculation, unsupported opinion, or debate. We need factual evidence about Soarer's work, behavior, and intentions that would stand up in a court of law if need be. I will start another thread for discussion of ethics, law and strategy once we have assembled a fact base.

If you have beliefs you cannot document with evidence, but want to express them, PM me. If you post them on this thread without support you could actually damage our chances of a good resolution.

Here are the questions:

((Answers are inserted as we develop them. Evidence downthread.))

1. Did Soarer ever attach a license to any of his code?

((Sadly, no. We've looked through all his code drops for he converter and the controller. No licenses.))

2. What do we know about his intentions for distribution and reuse based on what he posted?

((We have multiple posts from Soarer expressing intent to release his code as open source.

For example, at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2510&p=122796#p122796 Soarer says:
I want to rewrite some of my USB descriptor handling to be more flexible, so perhaps I'll add a low-speed 6KRO mode at some point. Shame, because apart from KVMs and PS3s the current setup is very compatible with the main OSs. I haven't opened the source yet.
More instances are linked to downthread.
))

3. Did he ever push code to a public open-source repository? If not, under what authority do source forks of his code exist?

((Soarer did not at any point push code to an open-source repository. Several forks of his configuration tools exist; all were made after he vanished.))

4. Was anyone making and selling Soarer's Converters with his knowledge?

((Yes. He knew orihalcon was making and selling converters in 2014 and approved.))

5. What other fora was he on? We need the entire relevant history, not just DT's.

((He was active on geekhack.org. This is his profile: https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4274 ))

6. We're going to need to make a serious and public effort to identify Soarer and/or his heirs. Even if we don't find anything, the fact that we did so and how much we know or don't know needs to be part of the record.

((We know he was resident in Great Britain, and that's it.))

7. The process by which his binary code was decompiled needs to be documented and public. We need to know what tools were used, what dependencies it has, and how the process can be replicated.

((Arakula described the process at
https://trello.com/c/49xeEOPm/15-arakul ... -converter

and there's a public repository at

https://github.com/antonizoon/arakulas- ... -converter

Note that this code has no license.))

It would be useful if we could assemble a list of links to every Soarer post ever, as an evidence exhibit.

((See next post in this thread.))

For anyone who is nervous about answering these questions, it is my informed belief that no criminal charges could be made in this matter, and that under American law it is extremely unlikely that any court would assess more than $200, which is the minimum award of statutory damages for infringement. Provided we don't annoy the judge - which means being open and honest and clearly acting in good faith with care for Soarer's declared intentions.

This problem can be solved. It's a different kind of hacking than most of you are used to. Messier. But I've been around the track a few times and I'm pretty sure I know what can be done.
Last edited by esr on 29 May 2021, 12:33, edited 13 times in total.

esr

25 May 2021, 22:30

Answering one of my own bullet points:

search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=s ... mit=Search

This search turns up all of Soarer's posts here. There are 899, beginning 03 Sep 2011 ending 18 Mar 2014.

Someone could do a useful thing by trawling all of these and listing URLs - in this thread - to all posts that ship code or express or imply any intentions about the code.

If "all" is too many, pick a range of dates and do what you can. There are lots of us.

User avatar
XMIT
[ XMIT ]

25 May 2021, 23:58

esr, as I said in PM, it's so nice to see you here on Deskthority. I've followed your Jargon file for many years now. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/

This reminds me of Arakula's thread from December 2014. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9322 .

I want to say that there were intentions for the code to become open but would need to dig up the particular forum post.

Muirium may have had Soarer's physical address and may have attempted to contact them. Again, this is off the top of my head, and would beed to be verified.

> 5. What other fora was he on? We need the entire relevant history, not just DT's.

Geekhack.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4274

(esr, would you consider updating the original post as answers come in, so that it might read as a Q&A?)

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

26 May 2021, 00:20

You need a bit more evidence to declare him legally dead. You're not new to the Internet. People radically quit whether a keyboard otaku or into my little pony.

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

26 May 2021, 00:51

I looked through my old messages, in hopes of answering any of the questions, specifically hoping for evidence that Soarer was aware and approved of Orihalcon making cables and selling them with "Soarer's" attached.

I missed, just barely. This was from GH, dated April 30, 2014:

orihalcon wrote:
Hey Harry,

First off, I definitely appreciate your vote of confidence of my cables on the forums!

I'd definitely be willing to trade for an SDL to USB cable.

....

esr

26 May 2021, 01:00

webwit wrote:
26 May 2021, 00:20
You need a bit more evidence to declare him legally dead. You're not new to the Internet. People radically quit whether a keyboard otaku or into my little pony.
Please do not argue about the law on this thread. When you do that, you jeopardize the effort.

esr

26 May 2021, 01:01

XMIT wrote:
25 May 2021, 23:58
(esr, would you consider updating the original post as answers come in, so that it might read as a Q&A?)
Will do.

esr

26 May 2021, 01:03

fohat wrote:
26 May 2021, 00:51
I looked through my old messages, in hopes of answering any of the questions, specifically hoping for evidence that Soarer was aware and approved of Orihalcon making cables and selling them with "Soarer's" attached.

I missed, just barely. This was from GH, dated April 30, 2014:

orihalcon wrote:
Hey Harry,

First off, I definitely appreciate your vote of confidence of my cables on the forums!

I'd definitely be willing to trade for an SDL to USB cable.

....
Hyperlink, please?

User avatar
jsheradin

26 May 2021, 01:06

Clean room=OK argument aside, I'm interested in what the value of reversing the code is? Given that TMK/QMK support pretty much everything that Soarer's does, why not just focus the effort on implementing the little bit of missing functionality?

User avatar
Weezer

26 May 2021, 01:07

TMK/QMK requires reflashing the firmware every time you want to make a change and soarers has easy and robust macro support
Last edited by Weezer on 26 May 2021, 01:15, edited 1 time in total.

esr

26 May 2021, 01:13

jsheradin wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:06
Clean room=OK argument aside, I'm interested in what the value of reversing the code is? Given that TMK/QMK support pretty much everything that Soarer's does, why not just focus the effort on implementing the little bit of missing functionality?
This is not the appropriate thread to discuss that.

esr

26 May 2021, 01:14

Weezer wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:07
TMK/QMK requires reflashing the firmware every time you want to make a change and soarers easy and robust macro support
Please do not answer off-topic questions here, it raises the noise level.

User avatar
Weezer

26 May 2021, 01:15

esr wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:14
Weezer wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:07
TMK/QMK requires reflashing the firmware every time you want to make a change and soarers easy and robust macro support
Please do not answer off-topic questions here, it raises the noise level.
Excuse me?

User avatar
jsheradin

26 May 2021, 01:16

Weezer wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:07
TMK/QMK requires reflashing the firmware every time you want to make a change and soarers easy and robust macro support
Someone willing to go through the effort of decompiling and recreating Soarer's could probably just as easily alter TMK/QMK to store the map in nv memory and overwrite it with a host side utility. Not to mention that if you're at the point of having a host side utility you'd be able to recompile anyways. The only missing thing is really just reading the existing config off of the controller.

User avatar
Weezer

26 May 2021, 01:17

jsheradin wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:16
Weezer wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:07
TMK/QMK requires reflashing the firmware every time you want to make a change and soarers easy and robust macro support
Someone willing to go through the effort of decompiling and recreating Soarer's could probably just as easily alter TMK/QMK to store the map in nv memory and overwrite it with a host side utility. Not to mention that if you're at the point of having a host side utility you'd be able to recompile anyways. The only missing thing is really just reading the existing config off of the controller.
Hm, yeah I suppose that makes sense.

esr

26 May 2021, 01:19

XMIT wrote:
25 May 2021, 23:58
I want to say that there were intentions for the code to become open but would need to dig up the particular forum post.
Please do that and post the link here, as that is an extremely important point to establish.

User avatar
Weezer

26 May 2021, 01:29

I'm actually also curious now what the point of reverse engineering Soarer's would be over improving TMK/QMK?

esr

26 May 2021, 01:35

Weezer wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:29
I'm actually also curious now what the point of reverse engineering Soarer's would be over improving TMK/QMK?
Please start a new topic to discuss this. Every noise post here damages the usefulness of this record if we need to show it to a lawyer or judge. This thread needs to stick to evidence and facts,

MMcM

26 May 2021, 01:52

viewtopic.php?p=90676#p90676
Soarer wrote:
27 Dec 2012, 15:36
Sorry, no source. It probably will become open eventually, but for now at least I don't want there to be forks.
viewtopic.php?p=145673#p145673
Soarer wrote:
30 Jan 2014, 15:18
There's one big problem with that idea - I haven't released the source code yet, and no idea when I will!

User avatar
E TwentyNine

26 May 2021, 02:53

esr wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:35
Weezer wrote:
26 May 2021, 01:29
I'm actually also curious now what the point of reverse engineering Soarer's would be over improving TMK/QMK?
Please start a new topic to discuss this. Every noise post here damages the usefulness of this record if we need to show it to a lawyer or judge. This thread needs to stick to evidence and facts,
You're going to have a hard time if you're going to attempt to control the comments in this thread.

User avatar
E TwentyNine

26 May 2021, 02:56

What's your end goal here? Are you looking to monetize something based off of Soarer's work?

esr

26 May 2021, 04:02

E TwentyNine wrote:
26 May 2021, 02:56
What's your end goal here? Are you looking to monetize something based off of Soarer's work?
Please reread the post at the start of the thread. All I want is for the source to be properly opened so I'm not stuck with a converter I can't modify.

User avatar
ifohancroft

26 May 2021, 04:15

esr, it's great to meet you and see you here!

I have downloaded all the links versions in Soarer's thread, here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0 and have loaded version 1.12 for atmega32u4 in Ghidra as:

Code: Select all

Format: Intel Hex
Language:

    (Full entry data in the Language selection pop-up)
    Processor: AVR8
    Variant: default
    Size: 16
    Endian: little
    Compiler: gcc
Options: Base Address: code: 0000
And Ghidra seems to recognize it fine in the Code Browser. There are seemingly no errors, functions appear where they should be. Function calls and parameters seem to be retained. It shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer, specially with some knowledge about the atmega32u4 (I'm not saying that I have it) and help from the datasheet.

I have been a bit burned out from work lately but in the following days I'll see what I can achieve attempting to reverse engineer it.

User avatar
PlacaFromHell

26 May 2021, 04:22

Instead of wasting time (not trying to be harsh, is literally that) trying to axiomatize a valid answer to your questions based the current information, why don't we try to find him? I'm sure someone has a bit more of personal information which might lead to him if he is still somewhere. Don't just stick to nowadays' active members, if we can get info about, for example, Soarer making X trade with Y member, we might have better luck finding that member and then asking him about Soarer. For example, finding Daniel Beardsmore, then asking him about Soarer (just an example, those two were oil and water).

User avatar
ifohancroft

26 May 2021, 04:35

PlacaFromHell wrote:
26 May 2021, 04:22
Instead of wasting time (not trying to be harsh, is literally that) trying to axiomatize a valid answer to your questions based the current information, why don't we try to find him? I'm sure someone has a bit more of personal information which might lead to him if he is still somewhere. Don't just stick to nowadays' active members, if we can get info about, for example, Soarer making X trade with Y member, we might have better luck finding that member and then asking him about Soarer. For example, finding Daniel Beardsmore, then asking him about Soarer (just an example, those two were oil and water).
Googling for his name I have found his wiki page here: wiki/User:Daniel_beardsmore, and if I recall correctly, there is a single account for the forum and the wiki, so I checked Deskthority's member list memberlist.php for user Daniel_beardsmore and on his profile memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=819 there is a link for his website: http://telcontar.net, from the Contact link at the bottom of the About page, I have found his email address and have emailed him to ask him if he knows what happened to Soarer.
Last edited by ifohancroft on 26 May 2021, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
PlacaFromHell

26 May 2021, 04:39

ifohancroft wrote:
26 May 2021, 04:35
Googling for his name I have found his wiki page here: wiki/User:Daniel_beardsmore, and if I recall correctly, there is a single account for the forum and the wiki, so I checked Deskthority's member list memberlist.php for user Daniel_beardsmore and on his profile there is a link for his website: http://telcontar.net, from the Contact link at the bottom of the About page, I have found his email address and have emailed him to ask him if he knows what happened to Soarer.
It was an example, but good job for taking the initiative.

User avatar
PlacaFromHell

26 May 2021, 04:48

There's a guy called Paranoid on Geekhack, he sold an IBM model F XT to Soarer at some point and his account is still active. With some luck you can ask him about information.

esr

26 May 2021, 05:26

PlacaFromHell wrote:
26 May 2021, 04:22
Instead of wasting time (not trying to be harsh, is literally that) trying to axiomatize a valid answer to your questions based the current information, why don't we try to find him?
That's why one of the questions is about discovering Soarer's meat identity. It gives us options to try to find him. I doubt we're going to; the abruptness with which he vanished and the total lack of success others have had trying to reach him suggest to me that he died suddenly and unexpectedly in 2014.

I'd be delighted to be wrong about this, but my expectation is that I'm going to end up doing newspaper searches and contacting the West Lothian police to verify that he's dead. I think if we're very lucky, we'll find his next of kin.

esr

26 May 2021, 05:42

PlacaFromHell wrote:
26 May 2021, 04:48
There's a guy called Paranoid on Geekhack, he sold an IBM model F XT to Soarer at some point and his account is still active. With some luck you can ask him about information.
Thank you. I have sent him a query.

User avatar
ifohancroft

26 May 2021, 07:16

I have found this comment by Soarer on GeekHack, promising that he will release the source after a couple of rewrites of parts of it:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19 ... #msg379695

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