Building a custom keyboard from the ground up

pasph

05 Jun 2013, 19:35

BrownFox layout is an mx mini with the bottom row 1,25-1,25-1,25-6,25-1.5-1.5-1-1-1 and without the 2° row?
Backspace is 1u?
Last edited by pasph on 05 Jun 2013, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

05 Jun 2013, 19:37

Muirium wrote:Blank PBT DSA: now that's three things I like. I could definitely redesign for that. Could you give me a list of all the keys, by any chance? I'm going to get creative.

Quite right about the space bar, I forgot you put the Teensy there. What's the suggested width?
Keys will be a standard 104 ANSI (+ maybe tsangan, 1.5 mods and 7u spacebar)

I'd say the minimum is 6u.
pasph wrote:BrownFox layout is an mx mini with the bottom row 1,25-1,25-1,25-6,25-1.5-1.5-1-1-1?
mx mini with 1.5, 1, 1.5, 6, 1.5, 1.5, 1, 1, 1

but also what you suggest would be feasible.

Edit:

brownfox
bf.png
bf.png (17.76 KiB) Viewed 2076 times
Last edited by matt3o on 05 Jun 2013, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

pasph

05 Jun 2013, 19:43

your layout is really beautiful but
6 spacebar not really that standard
1 backspace?

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

05 Jun 2013, 19:45

pasph wrote:your layout is really beautiful but
6 spacebar not really that standard
1 backspace?
fortunately I have quite a few 6u spacebars after DSA retro :) but a more standard layout is feasible.

backspace can be 1u, 2u, or 1.5u in place of \| key

Edit:
this is a "standard" alternative
bf2.png
bf2.png (17.56 KiB) Viewed 2069 times

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Muirium
µ

05 Jun 2013, 20:25

Hmm. A 6u spacebar it shall be.

Are the DSA retro brown blanks (all sizes between 1 and 2 units inclusive) you talked about before still available? I had a design in progress that relied on them (plus a 6u spacebar) exclusively. I might be better working from that.

Unless the PBT DSA GB is soon, soon. Anyway, I can always mix them, this being DSA!

pasph

05 Jun 2013, 20:59

Ok i can solder and i have a teensy, as long you can give me some guidelines and a firmware i think i can be in

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Muirium
µ

05 Jun 2013, 21:03

Good on you Pasph.

Right, this is my 6u space bar adaptation:
Picture 1.png
Custom 60% Layout 6
Picture 1.png (46.94 KiB) Viewed 2055 times
It's almost standard ANSI above row 1 except for the right hand shift, which is HHKB / Pure style with an extra 1u key to the right. Have you got the caps for this Matteo?

Are all the row 1 keys round profile on DSA or is it just the space bar? I can't tell from the PDF.

I'm going to get sneaky with function keys in the controller, instead.

jpatters

05 Jun 2013, 23:02

I'd be interested in getting a plate cut for a numpad, if that would be possible in your run. I'm going to be using Matias switches, and I have no idea where to begin with the CAD drawing so that the holes are the right size. I'd also be potentially interested in doing a version for Honeywell hall effect switches.
392219533.054552.jpg
Numpad
392219533.054552.jpg (47.22 KiB) Viewed 1954 times
Last edited by jpatters on 06 Jun 2013, 15:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Muirium
µ

05 Jun 2013, 23:29

If there's anyone who can use up a whole sheet, you're the guy!
Image
From small numpads, great numboards grow.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

05 Jun 2013, 23:37

Muirium wrote:Good on you Pasph.

Right, this is my 6u space bar adaptation:
Picture 1.png
this is doable, but if you want to go all blank you can't use dsa retro.
jpatters wrote:I'd be interested in getting a plate cut for a numpad, if that would be possible in your run. I'm going to be using Matias switches, and I have no idea where to begin with the CAD drawing so that the holes are the right size. I'd also be potentially interested in doing a version for Honeywell hall effect switches.
problem with Matias is that we need a 1mm sheet plate, so we would need some orders just for that.
pasph wrote:Ok i can solder and i have a teensy, as long you can give me some guidelines and a firmware i think i can be in
No problem for firmware and guidelines :)

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 01:39

Left shift and return are indeed >2u. I'd rather not split them into smaller keys. I'm good so long as you've DSA caps for them, my preference being brown and with the correct legends! Got any matching spare right shifts that would fit, too?

F & J are relegendables for homing purposes, brown too if possible.

Good job you've a fair old inventory of spares to dig into. These are the standard ANSI keys, so should be easiest to swap out in future.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 08:09

I should have them with legends, I don't know what the kb looks like with a mixed blank/legended caps though

I would use a standard 6.25 (and reduce one of the keys to the right), so you are free to change caps at any time. Or at least you could start experimenting before I get the leftovers.

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 11:42

Yes, you're right about mixing things up for a 6.25 space bar. All row 1 mods look quite nice as 1.25u then. And you have all the caps. Great. Sign me up for one of that please!

Keeping options open for switching in other caps (PBT DSA specifically) is important. That's how I'll address the mixed blank / nonblank problem. These are the kind of baby steps you take when starting from zero Cherry caps like me. working keyboard comes first.

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 13:50

Confirmed layout for production!
Custom 60% Layout 6.1 Default Layer.png
Custom 60% Layout 6.1 Default Layer.png (48.65 KiB) Viewed 1983 times
Keeping it simple. Row 1 is 1.25 x 3. 6.25. 1.25 x 4.

Requires stabs for standard ANSI 6.25u space bar, standard ANSI left shift, and standard ANSI return.

Right shift is, of course, HHKB style. As is the top right corner, where there's two single keys instead of a standard 2u backspace.

One open Steely-style case and plate for this, thanks.
Last edited by Muirium on 06 Jun 2013, 13:53, edited 1 time in total.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 13:53

LOVELY design. Sweet like a pie.

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 13:55

Simple always winds up sweet.

Now I've finally stopped fiddling, you're safe to make it!

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 13:59

There you go :)
muirium-60.png
muirium-60.png (4.65 KiB) Viewed 1979 times

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 14:19

Cool. You fit me into whatever aluminium job you see fit. Because that's my next keyboard right there!

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 14:24

I'll have the plate for the brownfox laser cut to verify keys and stabs spacing. If everything goes smooth I'll have a second round with as many plates as we can fit.

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 14:34

Alright all you lurkers: time to come forward if you want a killer metal keyboard. The more the merrier.

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matt3o
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06 Jun 2013, 14:35

Muirium wrote:Alright all you lurkers: time to come forward if you want a killer metal keyboard. The more the merrier.
I'll post a (mini) GB as soon as we are ready.

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suka
frobiac

06 Jun 2013, 15:06

I'm considering a HyperNano adoption in metal to use them retros on, but have two questions:

1) Would you be willing do design the layout for me by shifting your rows around a little ?
2) How much will a typical plate like the muirium-60 above approximately be (just the plate for the switches alone)?

This is what I have in mind, with a minimal frame width of just 6mm away from any of the 14mm cutouts, no stabilizers. Doable?

Code: Select all

____________________________________________________________
|1.50  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |  1.50|
|1.25 |    |    |    |    | 1.5  |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
|    |    |    |    |    |    |   |    |    |    |    |    |
|1.25 |    |    |    |    | 1.5  |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
------------------------------------------------------------

and that
______________________________________________________________
|1.50  |    |    |    |    | 1.5  |    |    |    |    |  1.50|
|1.25 |    |    |    |    |    |   |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
|    |    |    |    |    |    |X|   |    |    |    |    |    |
|1.25 |    |    |    |    |    |   |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
--------------------------------------------------------------

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 15:54

suka wrote:1) Would you be willing do design the layout for me by shifting your rows around a little ?
2) How much will a typical plate like the muirium-60 above approximately be (just the plate for the switches alone)?
1) no problem!
2) very hard to say... just 1 alu plate (out of a GB) would cost approx €45 I guess. A steel one would be cheaper.
suka wrote:Doable?

Code: Select all

____________________________________________________________
|1.50  |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |  1.50|
|1.25 |    |    |    |    | 1.5  |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
|    |    |    |    |    |    |   |    |    |    |    |    |
|1.25 |    |    |    |    | 1.5  |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
------------------------------------------------------------

and that
______________________________________________________________
|1.50  |    |    |    |    | 1.5  |    |    |    |    |  1.50|
|1.25 |    |    |    |    |    |   |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
|    |    |    |    |    |    |X|   |    |    |    |    |    |
|1.25 |    |    |    |    |    |   |    |    |    |    | 1.25|
--------------------------------------------------------------
what's X?

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suka
frobiac

06 Jun 2013, 16:17

matt3o wrote:what's X?
The remaining half-key width of free space (LED location, maybe?) due to the 1/4 stagger.

edit: Just saw the pricetag - unless you really need to fill the free space on your large plate to get your own costs down that would be too much for me, so don't bother designing the dwg for now.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 16:27

suka wrote:
matt3o wrote:what's X?
The remaining half-key width of free space (LED location, maybe?) due to the 1/4 stagger.

edit: Just saw the pricetag - unless you really need to fill the free space on your large plate to get your own costs down that would be too much for me, so don't bother designing the dwg for now.
the idea is to do a GB, one single plate should go 25-30 I guess.

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Paranoid

06 Jun 2013, 16:36

Any chance you could easily include the Phantom style switch opening holes?
Also, are there restrictions on the keyboard layout regarding the case? Say if I'd like an extra column on the left, would it be easy to adjust the case?

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Muirium
µ

06 Jun 2013, 16:42

Matteo's making both 15 and 16 unit wide layouts. So you should be fine to do your design. I asked him about switch opening options, and he talked me out of that but it is doable.

I'm only considering trying mx green on my space bar, so it's not top priority for me.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

06 Jun 2013, 16:46

Paranoid wrote:Any chance you could easily include the Phantom style switch opening holes?
not a problem. I should have it somewhere. Note that I use 19mm spacing instead of the suggested 19.05mm (never had an issue, tolerance is 0.1).
Paranoid wrote:Also, are there restrictions on the keyboard layout regarding the case? Say if I'd like an extra column on the left, would it be easy to adjust the case?
no restrictions I could think of. it's pretty easy to adjust the case, but each new layout involves a certain degree of risk. If measurements/spacings of my brownfox are correct we use the same units to make more layouts so the risk is low, but still a risk :)
Last edited by matt3o on 06 Jun 2013, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Paranoid

06 Jun 2013, 16:47

I see ^^ thanks! I hope I can get a design ready sometime in the near future. Got too much stuff going on at once :D

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matt3o
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11 Jun 2013, 18:25

case is in production... :)

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