To Save a Kishsaver

[Muirium]

Hmmm...who is going to be the first to make a universal 60% top plate that would take either?

Custom Kishavers are calling you!

I'd love a TKL Model F, come to think of it, with the modern 1.25u mods layout instead of the Winkeyless SSK…

[Hypersphere]

F-122 is same as AT. If you only had one barrel to replace, it wouldn't be that hard to make a hole if you had the wrong type. Hmmm...who is going to be the first to make a universal 60% top plate that would take either?

While we are at it, it would be good to come up with some transplantable spacebar mounts. I contacted Unicomp to see if they supplied spacebar mounts. They don't, because the Model M mounts are molded into the top plate. Perhaps this could be another job for a 3D printer. This is not a top priority for me, but someday I would like to put a Model M spacebar and stabilizer on my F-122.

[Muirium]

Could be a tricky job for 3D printing. Those clips have got to take repeated movement (a few million presses of the space bar), and behave themselves nicely on glue.

[Hypersphere]

Could be a tricky job for 3D printing. Those clips have got to take repeated movement (a few million presses of the space bar), and behave themselves nicely on glue.

I am exploring other options for stabilizer mounts. If I find something promising (or even better -- something that actually works!), I will post the results.

[Muirium]

Definitely! Thanks RJSphere.

[Hypersphere]

Definitely! Thanks RJSphere.

In case you have not seen it, you can go to the following link to see some pics of a repaired spacebar mount for an F-122. The mounts look like those in your Kishsaver. He simply molded some epoxy to approximate the size and shape of the mount, and it apparently worked.
http://www.epiguru.com/2012/08/ibm-122- ... d-6110668/

[Muirium]

Nice link, thanks! Apparently I need me some epoxy putty…

[Hypersphere]

As long as you are creating a new mount, you might consider the possibility of modifying both of them so that they could accommodate the larger-diameter wire of a Model M spacebar. I am looking into this possibility for my F-122, although I am reluctant to repair something that is not really broken.

By the way, some of the extra noise from my F-122 spacebar is arising from the spacebar hitting the metal plate (I tend to bash my keys and bottom out on every keystroke).

[Hypersphere]

I recall seeing nylon cable clips that might make good mounts for a spacebar stabilizer wire, but a recent extensive search came up with nothing that seemed quite suitable. However, while visiting my local hardware store, I found some 3/16" plastic low-voltage masonry stables for anchoring small cables to masonry.

cable_clamp.png (38.73 KiB) Viewed 4858 times

These might not be as tough and slippery as nylon, but they look something like the supports for my Model M spacebar (without the nail, of course). They could be cut with a sharp knife, diagonal cutters, or dremel and then filed or sanded to make a surface for gluing to the plate.

However, to make the support more like that found in a Model M, you would need two additional pieces shaped like small-angle shims or ramps, one on each side of the overhanging piece. Someone suggested slicing the mounts out of a donor Model M and gluing them into the recipient board. It might also be possible to take a donor M to a plastics shop to have something custom made. A problem with either of these solutions is that the transplants would have some thickness at their bases, thus raising the mounts above the plane of the plate. To get around this last problem, the wire could rest directly on the plate, but little "stops" could be glued to the plate in front of the overhang.

[Game Theory]

Ok not to steal the thunder of the alternatives: The AT replacement for the part keyboard is on the way. I write up something on how to tell me what parts you need/address sometime this weekend. I also need to check my kishsaver to see whats missing:) Should have two boards worth of flippers/springs and 1 board worth of stabilizers.

[Muirium]

I'll gladly try the real deal before I resort to bodging up something of my own. The fact there's glue involved makes me hesitant to try too many attempts! Only got one Kishsaver!

[Hypersphere]

Ok not to steal the thunder of the alternatives: The AT replacement for the part keyboard is on the way. I write up something on how to tell me what parts you need/address sometime this weekend. I also need to check my kishsaver to see whats missing:) Should have two boards worth of flippers/springs and 1 board worth of stabilizers.

All thunder (and lightning) welcome! Those lucky enough to have Kishsavers and those with other IBM boards are looking for good ways to restore them, especially using methods that employ original parts. Thanks.

[Game Theory]

So I'll will have the following parts:
model F flippy plates (including springs)
model F AT-style barrels (with the nub on the barrel at 5 o'clock-ish)
model F AT-style stabilizer hooks
model F AT-style stabilizers
if you want certain keycaps you can ask but some have been requested already

Please PM me with the:
quantity of each you need
your real life name
your postal address

Everything will be free including international shipping.

I'll clean the parts, box them, and ship as soon as possible. The parts board is in the mail to me currently.

[Muirium]

All hail the Saint of Model Fs!



That's a fantastic offer, Game Theory. The pouncing begins! Thanks a metallic pingy ton from all of us!

[scottc]

Is it too late for me to ask for some AT-style barrels? I'm hoping to mod my AT sometime soon.

I'll throw you a PM just in case. You're a saint!

[Hypersphere]

So I'll will have the following parts:
model F flippy plates (including springs)
model F AT-style barrels (with the nub on the barrel at 5 o'clock-ish)
model F AT-style stabilizer hooks
model F AT-style stabilizers
if you want certain keycaps you can ask but some have been requested already

Please PM me with the:
quantity of each you need
your real life name
your postal address

Everything will be free including international shipping.

I'll clean the parts, box them, and ship as soon as possible. The parts board is in the mail to me currently.

PM sent in case you still have some of these items to spare.

[Kurk]

That's great stuff, Game Theory!
PM sent.

[rindorbrot]

Very generous offer Game Theory, thanks!
PM is on the way.

[wcass]

You can use XT style barrels in your Kishsaver (or 122 or AT) you just need to cut off the peg. You will want to place the replacement barrel in a spot that is completely surrounded by other barrels - G,H,J are good choices; space would be a bad choice.

Also, you might try to transplant one of the unused stabilizer clips - from backspace, return, or shift. I think they are joined to the barrel plate like the rivets on a model M. I heard that these can be removed by pushing them from the back.

And about that request for a TKL Model F; the XTant project is not dead now that there are two new controllers. I've been busy with that this past week.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brin ... 7-120.html

[Muirium]

Intriguing! I'm not using any wire stabs now in my Kishsaver, besides the space bar, so I ought to look into detaching and remounting those. I mistakenly assumed they were either glued on or made in the same molding.

[Hypersphere]

You can use XT style barrels in your Kishsaver (or 122 or AT) you just need to cut off the peg. You will want to place the replacement barrel in a spot that is completely surrounded by other barrels - G,H,J are good choices; space would be a bad choice.

Also, you might try to transplant one of the unused stabilizer clips - from backspace, return, or shift. I think they are joined to the barrel plate like the rivets on a model M. I heard that these can be removed by pushing them from the back.

And about that request for a TKL Model F; the XTant project is not dead now that there are two new controllers. I've been busy with that this past week.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brin ... 7-120.html

As I have mentioned before (not sure which thread), I have some F-122s that I would like to restore and get up and running with USB connections to a contemporary computer. They seem in good shape, but the spacebar noise is annoying. I think that the spacebar noise might be alleviated (or at least changed to a different frequency spectrum) by installing a Model M spacebar and stabilizer wire on the F-122. The problem is the stabilizer clips -- bigger ones are needed to accommodate the larger-diameter stabilizer wire on the Model M. However, unlike the rivet mounts on the F, the stabilizer clips on the M are molded into the barrel plate. If you have suggestions on how to install a Model M spacebar and Model M spacebar stabilizer wire (and mounting clips) on an F-122, I would be glad to see them. Thanks.

[Game Theory]

I have the F122 [AT] and will be disassembling it today. Case is a bit cracked so do not panic about its donor status. Its one of the French F122s that were recently on eBay from Quebec. I also have the parts from the XT too.

From looking at the PMs it shouldn't be a problem for everyone to get what they asked for.
I plan on shipping the parts out Monday the 16th, or Tuesday the 17th at the latest.

[Muirium]

Oddly enough, that won't be my first taste of IBM from Quebec!

http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-m ... ml#p124229

[wcass]

I got these made at Shapeways. The 3D model was made by Monster-Toys.

DSCF2450.JPG (212.82 KiB) Viewed 4637 times

[Hypersphere]

What are these objects made at Shapeways?

[rindorbrot]

Looking good wcass!
Do they work as expected?

[JBert]

What are these objects made at Shapeways?

Looks like some kind of mounting guide between the case and the keyboard assembly?

[rindorbrot]

Yes, those are some plastic spacers for in between the internal assembly and the case.
Most of them break while opening the Kishsavers, that's why we need replacements!

[Muirium]

Yup. The metal on the right of the picture is a Kishsaver's internal backplate, which has lips on the sides like other Model Fs (so I gather, I haven't opened other models) where it attaches to the case. The brown metal is the inside of the Kishsaver's outer top shell. I think Wcass has painted his. Mine is an unpainted grey, as I remember, beneath the outer beige.

As for the component, my Kishsaver is missing those entirely, but holds together tight and good without them. But I don't doubt they can be quite useful, for alignment. One of the four I proxied needed opened up to move the internals slightly to the left as the right column of keys were binding with the case. Standard Model F stuff.

[wcass]

Yep, those are plastic spacers. Most of the KS owners i hear from report that these are damaged. The two black pieces of plastic in the picture are my originals - the tops are completely broken off and both are split between the top two holes. The two white ones are copies and there are copies mounted in the Kishsaver (only one shown).

I think IBM put them in there for some good reason (Parak believes these help prevent damage to the barrels and PCB), so I'm all for replacing when damaged. They are just slightly over 1cc each, so only about $1.50 each plus handling and postage.

They fit fine, but I can't speak for durability yet. I'm still in and out of the case, so will have lots of opportunity to check them for wear over the next month or so. I'll let you know.