Topre switch / Cherry MX compatible

[CM Pim]

Hi guys,

As for the listing on our CM Store is only German and US/UI layout available because we wanted to send as much stock as possible to the local partners. Most should have the product already live, for some others it might take a few days.,... Listed here below:

France:
Rue de Commerce - LDLC - Material.net - Pure-Gaming

And last, as for the offering of layouts in EU we will have:
German, UK, Nordic, France, Italian, Spanish, (ISO)
Russian, US/UI (ANSI)

Hi Bram,

Kinda lost here. Vincent told me not to publicly communicate on the available outlets as to not 'offend' the other retailers due to limited stock. Is it okay now?

Hi Pixelninja,

Probably it's okay now. (I guess) I will double check this tomorrow, and I will ask Bram for an update.

EDIT: please check Vincent.

[_PixelNinja]

Wilco. Thanks Pim!

[Monkay]

*removed inappropriate comment because of bad english skills*

and have 91€ left to spend on dampening solutions to try to get it closer to the Realforce feel.

Well well, I am working on something for that particullar problem, I will announce more details soon.

I would really like to see a nice idea how I can damp my Novatouch. I already put on my thick pBTs + O-Rings and it is more dampened but I have the feeling that it could be better (:

Will you make your own thread or should I just check here?

[_PixelNinja]

Monkay,

Check this out : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65853.0

[Monkay]

Thanks dude!

Looks like a lot of work :O Anyone in germany want to do it for me

[Hypersphere]

Wish I had waited on buying my Novatouch until the price dropped, although the price on Amazon keeps fluctuating making it difficult to know when to place your bets. I paid 200 USD shipped. I would like to see a price of around 150 USD shipped and less if they were to offer a version without keycaps.

@PixelNinja: Thanks for the link to the GH post by spiceBar on silencing the Novatouch. My latest experiment was with the PBT set from Leopold. This is not bad except for the Enter key, which seems to be hitting the stabilizer housing. I look forward to updates from spiceBar and cookie, which might help address such problems.

[Muirium]

Having tried internal damping on my NovaTouches, it makes a fair improvement but it's not a complete fix to restore the Topre thock. (I disagree with the guy PixelNinja linked who thinks this makes a better sounding board than a Type-S HHKB or a Leopold.) Sure, you lose the main rattle but the sound still isn't quite right.

These sliders are wider than standard Topre, and so the shells they sit in are different too. (I've tried putting a NovaTouch slider in a Realforce shell and it's way too damn tight.) The NovaTouch seems a bit loose overall. That's good for modding, though, but bad for sound and, potentially, feel. Dampers help but don't solve this.

The bigger problem still, though, is those stabilisers. I've quietened them down a fair bit, but I need to trim some foam to different shapes and try some more. Again, damping really does help, but I suspect the best you could do with it still falls a little short of where the other Topres come as standard.

[Hypersphere]

From my own experience and based on the many reports I have seen in the forums, it seems that CM pushed the Novatouch out the door too soon. It is a great idea to produce a keyboard with Topre switches and Cherry mx-compatible stems, but there are a number of design, materials, and quality control issues that need to be addressed in order to have an excellent product.

It is possible for end-users to do various tweaks to address some of the problems, but this should not be necessary if the product were adequately refined in the first place.

[Monkay]

Do you guys have any idea where I could get these landing pads for the dampening mod in germany or europe? Would be nice to not pay customs and shipping (:
Also the grease to silence the rattle of the stabilizers would be nice.

[Muirium]

Shoot Cookie a PM. He's working on it…

[_PixelNinja]

Mu,

How did your dampening method compare to SpiceBar's in terms of sound? Regardless of how close or not is is to classic Topre, I found his recording very compelling.

[Muirium]

I'll make a recording when it's quiet enough to pick up. (My microphone has obsessive compulsive noise pollution detecting superpowers. It's a condenser…) Cookie sent me enough of his experimental homemade rings for a handful of keys, but far from all of them. The effect's better once you've got the whole keyboard covered, obviously. I'm up for it!

[magicsam075]

Does anyone knows if the TKL Novatouch in its French version is in ISO azerty or not? I mean does it have the big Enter key or the small one with another one key above it like in the US? I'm asking that because all pictures for french market only shows it in in Qwerty....

[Khers]

Does anyone knows if the TKL Novatouch in its French version is in ISO azerty or not? I mean does it have the big Enter key or the small one with another one key above it like in the US? I'm asking that because all pictures for french market only shows it in in Qwerty....

ISO-layout means big enter, I guess that CM just took a pic of the US ANSI-layout because they could not be bothered taking photos of all configurations. As for azerty, having a french layout sort of suggests that it is azerty.

[magicsam075]

Yes but the thing is that I came across some Azerty in ANSI-layout on other brands...so I wanted to make sure if it was Azerty ISO^^

[Khers]

The Swedish retailer is also using a picture showing a keyboard with US ANSI layout. The boards that are sent out seem to be ISO though, given that reviews show a Nordic ISO.

Spoiler:

Assuming that ISO is the dominating azerty layout, I guess this would point towards the azerty being ISO. I cannot verify this though.

[magicsam075]

Looks good! Thank you for the hint!
I will keep you informed once I receive it!

[_PixelNinja]

I'll make a recording when it's quiet enough to pick up. (My microphone has obsessive compulsive noise pollution detecting superpowers. It's a condenser…) Cookie sent me enough of his experimental homemade rings for a handful of keys, but far from all of them. The effect's better once you've got the whole keyboard covered, obviously. I'm up for it!

Thanks! I will be looking forward to that.

Does anyone knows if the TKL Novatouch in its French version is in ISO azerty or not? I mean does it have the big Enter key or the small one with another one key above it like in the US? I'm asking that because all pictures for french market only shows it in in Qwerty....

The French version is indeed ISO FR.

[magicsam075]

I'm using the TKL Novatouch on a mac and so far so good, except one little, issue: I cannot remap the Fn key!
Of course I tried with Karabiner and Keyboard Maestro with no avail, the key is not recognised in these 2 apps.
The Fn key does however works properly on its own with the F1, F2 etc...keys for media things.
Does anyone have an idea of how to remap this Fn key on a Mac? I know it's a very specific issue but I could remap any other Fn keys on other keyboards before (in like F14, or shift etc...), so I don't get why the Novatouch only can't do it. I know that the Fn key is more like a hardware key so that might one of the reasons though...

[Muirium]

You can't remap it, period. It is not exposed to the outside world, only used internally for the controller to swap in media keys.

[magicsam075]

Hi Muirium,

Thank you for your reply!

Do you know then why other keyboards have the ability to have their Fn key remapped? (on Keyboard Maestro it is recognized as a blank key sometimes and was thus possible with for instance the apple keyboard).

[Hypersphere]

This is one reason I usually prefer keyboards that do not have a hardwired Fn key -- I can use remapping software to define my own Fn key and its functions.

Some keyboards that have Fn keys have DIP switch settings that enable moving or reassigning the Fn key. For example, such keyboards might have a DIP switch setting that converts Fn to "Menu". Because "Menu" sends a scan code, it is then possible to remap it using remapping software.

[magicsam075]

Indeed yes. But some keyboards without this DIP switch can still have their Fn key remapped, how to explain that?

[Hypersphere]

Indeed yes. But some keyboards without this DIP switch can still have their Fn key remapped, how to explain that?

It is my understand that if it can be remapped, it must be sending a scan code.

[Muirium]

Hyper's right. Apple skirts around this limitation with a little USB standard-defying cheat that only they can use:

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/host ... key%20host

So Apple's own Fn key does send a code, of a sort. The NovaTouch (like many boards, including Ducky's) does not, and there's no way to remap something that's invisible.

[magicsam075]

Sorry to insist but I find the issue really annoying. CM Storm could have just manufactured the keyboard with a proper code on the Fn key instead of nothing. Because as I don't plan to use the Fn key as a function key I am here with a dead key that could have been any other precious key. So could Mr. Bram have a look on that issue and tell me if there is a workaround on a mac system with any command line parameter or any third party app that could do the trick?
And for Mirium: I successfully remapped the Fn key as Fn + up/down arrow to brightness up/down or sound up/down. That is the only remap I could perform but it shows well on the contrary of what you said that the Fn is not necessarily physically “wired“ to the media keys and can be used differently...(I used a program called Karabiner for that)

[Muirium]

Only contrary to your understanding of what I said. If the Fn key was visible by itself, there would be no problem remapping it in software to whatever you like. But it is hidden. The only thing it does is modify a handful of keys which are indeed hardwired into the NovaTouch's controller, sending out codes for Volume Up etc. You can remap those media keys to anything, but you cannot remap what it does *not* send.



This is a problem I know well from various keyboards over the years. My [wiki]Monterey K110[/wiki] does much the same thing, with its lower left corner Fn key which is forever hidden from the host. I can remap "Page Up" (which is actually Fn+Up on the keyboard) to another value. But I can only infer Fn's actions. It's a black box. So for the majority of keys on the keyboard, where Fn does nothing, there is no way to know its state.

[Hypersphere]

I concur with Mu.

And regarding the CM Novatouch, I ended up with a dead key where Fn resides, because I remapped the lower right-hand key as Fn in software and then assigned my own functions to it.

In contrast, my Filco MJ2 TKL Ninja did not have a Fn key, but it had a "Menu" key, which sends a scan code. Therefore, on the Filco, I was able to set up my own Fn key without having any dead keys on the keyboard.

Similarly, with my WASD V2 87 and my Kul ES-87, there were Fn keys, but they could be swapped with "Menu" using a hardware DIP switch setting. This enabled me to set up my own Fn key with my own assigned functions for it without ending up with a dead key.

This issue is one of my gripes with the Poker II. It has a Pn (programming) key and a Fn key. The keyboard is "sort of" programmable, but not completely -- you cannot change the Pn or Fn keys.

[JBert]

This is a problem I know well from various keyboards over the years. My [wiki]Monterey K110[/wiki] does much the same thing, with its lower left corner Fn key which is forever hidden from the host. I can remap "Page Up" (which is actually Fn+Up on the keyboard) to another value. But I can only infer Fn's actions. It's a black box. So for the majority of keys on the keyboard, where Fn does nothing, there is no way to know its state.

Well you could replace the PCB, or you could put a Soarer Converter in there and hot-wire the Fn key ( I did the latter with a Poker X but I must confess that it's messy I still dread opening it up - which is also why I haven't posted a tutorial yet).

Sadly no such thing is possible with the NovaTouch, the controller only understands USB HID and the controller is soldered on the same PCB...

[Muirium]

My wee K110 is already quite hairy inside. I need to take some pictures sometime (never enough light here in the depth of winter) of its nasty assembly line patches! The controller's still integrated on the switch PCB though, if I remember right. Fun times ahead if I ever delve into all that.

Keyboard designers: expose your switches! And modularise your design so we can replace your controller. Also, kindly date everything so the wiki's easier to write…