overview, pcb, case
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sides
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my biggest keyboard shipment receiving..
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Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Nice pictures, and well lit. Which inspired me to try to make a site header out of them:
http://deskthority.net/post208512.html#p208512
(Click photos in that thread to preview them as the DT header art.)
http://deskthority.net/post208512.html#p208512
(Click photos in that thread to preview them as the DT header art.)
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vsev
- Location: France
- Main keyboard: G80-1861HAF/1987' M
- Main mouse: large scroll wheel ones
- Favorite switch: mx blue/ Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑I knew there would have to be at least one more undiscovered space invader switch — one-eye yellow! Two-eye yellow is supposed to be lighter, but one-eye yellow is clearly heavier!
Plus there's that weird dark green/teal Alps SKFL that may or may not be a real switch — it seems to be there as part of the stabiliser, rather than as a switch, but even more confusingly, it looks like the LED hole of the other switch is full of hot glue or an LED or something.
One-eyed yellow :
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I don't want to modify anything from this one until I find how to plug in my PC before !
And weird dark green/teal Alps SKFL :
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I was just seeing something that wasn't there. So, it's a dark green switch. Some keyboards do use empty switches or even functional switches for stabilisers, so I'm not clear on what Canon were doing there. What does the green one feel like?
Also, you can see from that photo that the custom (language-specific?) keycaps are engraved.
Also, you can see from that photo that the custom (language-specific?) keycaps are engraved.
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Findecanor
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
I'm guessing that the green switch is not connected to anything - just soldered to keep it on the board.
How are the Philips keyboard's keycaps? It is difficult to see, but it looks in pictures as if they are a hybrid of cylindrical and spherical, though mostly flat with edges on left, right and back.
It is not the first keyboard that I've seen that has had the numeric keypad in all one profile while the alphabetic keyboard has been contoured. I wonder why they do the keys different.
How are the Philips keyboard's keycaps? It is difficult to see, but it looks in pictures as if they are a hybrid of cylindrical and spherical, though mostly flat with edges on left, right and back.
It is not the first keyboard that I've seen that has had the numeric keypad in all one profile while the alphabetic keyboard has been contoured. I wonder why they do the keys different.
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
They're quite different to the ones shown here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=11987.0
Since we have no proof that either switch was ever made by ICL …
It could easily be another manufacturer's switch, just as with RAFI RS 76M vs Siemens STB 21.
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jacobolus
- Location: geekhack ergonomics subforum
- Favorite switch: Alps plate spring; clicky SMK
- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah... maybe a very early version of SKFL?skrsh3r wrote: ↑Also stems are different on those skfl switches, they don't have that little plastic part in center that stops you from using some alps keycaps.
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jacobolus
- Location: geekhack ergonomics subforum
- Favorite switch: Alps plate spring; clicky SMK
- DT Pro Member: -
Here’s my butchered (his was too dark to see anything) version of one of HaaTa’s pictures (https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/12888490103/):Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑They're quite different to the ones shown here:jacobolus wrote: ↑ HaaTa says [the Philips board] is ICL switches: http://deskthority.net/wiki/ICL_switch
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=11987.0
Looks pretty similar to the Philips one, I’d say.
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HaaTa
- Master Kiibohd Hunter
- Location: San Jose, California, USA
- Main keyboard: Depends the day
- Main mouse: CST L-TracX
- Favorite switch: Fujitsu Leaf Spring/Topre/BS/Super Alps
- DT Pro Member: 0006
- Contact:
I have another keyboard with this switch (at least from your pics I'd say it's the same).
Loewe. TBT 02 Keyboard by triplehaata, on Flickr
Loewe. TBT 02 Keyboard by triplehaata, on Flickr
I'll try to dig up my Nokia Data keyboard to see if the pinout is the same. The housing seems very similar. Even the mechanism (leaf spring contact vs. coil spring contact) has the same principle.
The ICL switch term pre-dates my joining at Geekhack iirc.
Loewe. TBT 02 Keyboard by triplehaata, on FlickrLoewe. TBT 02 Keyboard by triplehaata, on FlickrI'll try to dig up my Nokia Data keyboard to see if the pinout is the same. The housing seems very similar. Even the mechanism (leaf spring contact vs. coil spring contact) has the same principle.
The ICL switch term pre-dates my joining at Geekhack iirc.
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vsev
- Location: France
- Main keyboard: G80-1861HAF/1987' M
- Main mouse: large scroll wheel ones
- Favorite switch: mx blue/ Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
As expected your pics (as your knowledge too) are far better from mines, but I'll still try to help as I can.
Later today I'll shoot details and opened switches as you shown, so answers must be cleared this way !
Later today I'll shoot details and opened switches as you shown, so answers must be cleared this way !
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Compgeke
- Location: Fairfield, California, USA
- Main keyboard: IBM Model M 1391401
- Main mouse: Coolermaster Recon
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0040
One thing to keep in mind though is no one can compete with HaaTa in terms of pure amount of switch types owned - if it exists he's seen it, and probably owns it.
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vsev
- Location: France
- Main keyboard: G80-1861HAF/1987' M
- Main mouse: large scroll wheel ones
- Favorite switch: mx blue/ Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
No compete here at all I'm just so pleased that King Haata has answered to one of my posts !
I'm happy to contribute to knowledge down here as far as I can with my little material means !
I'm happy to contribute to knowledge down here as far as I can with my little material means !
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
The term "ICL switches" is associated with this switch, used in German and Scandinavian keyboards:
http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/erics ... t5167.html
It's similar to what vsev has, but is not the same.
"ICL switch" implies that it was made in Britain or at the behest of Britain, and while it appears that we did make switches, I've yet to confirm that any other than Alphameric were made by British companies, rather than outsourced manufacturing from the US (as might be the case with ITW and MEI).
To me it seems more likely that these switches came from Germany or Scandinavia, and that ICL were buying them at one point.
It might be that vsev's/HaaTa's are just a different model, or it might be that they just look superficially similar.
http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/erics ... t5167.html
It's similar to what vsev has, but is not the same.
"ICL switch" implies that it was made in Britain or at the behest of Britain, and while it appears that we did make switches, I've yet to confirm that any other than Alphameric were made by British companies, rather than outsourced manufacturing from the US (as might be the case with ITW and MEI).
To me it seems more likely that these switches came from Germany or Scandinavia, and that ICL were buying them at one point.
It might be that vsev's/HaaTa's are just a different model, or it might be that they just look superficially similar.
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I want to cry …
No, you and HaaTa have the same switch.
The switch used on the wiki to illustrate the "ICL switch" (that I linked to) is a different switch.
This is sixty's unidentified keyboard (internally marked "SWEDEN" but with German keycaps):
This is intealls's Ericsson:
They might be related, but they're not the same design. Yours lack the diode position across the front (and are using the LED hole for the diodes) and the switch bases are larger and touch each other.
Both seem to have a slider that lifts up a metal contact, but while one has what seems to be a gold-plated spring (surely totally overkill) the other just has a flat spring.
There's a good chance that they're related, but I'd like stronger evidence. I'm doubting that ICL ever made them.
No, you and HaaTa have the same switch.
The switch used on the wiki to illustrate the "ICL switch" (that I linked to) is a different switch.
This is sixty's unidentified keyboard (internally marked "SWEDEN" but with German keycaps):
- kVDYn.jpg (135.62 KiB) Viewed 7985 times
- e1121-2.jpg (149.58 KiB) Viewed 7985 times
Both seem to have a slider that lifts up a metal contact, but while one has what seems to be a gold-plated spring (surely totally overkill) the other just has a flat spring.
There's a good chance that they're related, but I'd like stronger evidence. I'm doubting that ICL ever made them.
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pcaro
- Location: Seville, Spain
- Main keyboard: SSK,Novatouch
- Main mouse: Logitech M510, Slimblade
- Favorite switch: blucking spring
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
The caps are very very pretty
vsev wrote: ↑The switches opened( partially at least)
seems to be exact sames..?
The caps profileSpoiler:
That caps lock capSpoiler:
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HaaTa
- Master Kiibohd Hunter
- Location: San Jose, California, USA
- Main keyboard: Depends the day
- Main mouse: CST L-TracX
- Favorite switch: Fujitsu Leaf Spring/Topre/BS/Super Alps
- DT Pro Member: 0006
- Contact:
Sorry for high-jacking your vsev 
Whenever Beardsmore says my speculations need more data I tend to try and get some
So, let's get rid of this stupid ICL name, because there's actually a product code on the switches!
DSC_1568 by triplehaata, on Flickr
DSC_1570 by triplehaata, on Flickr
RMD 973
I don't recognize the logo on the right (the three backslashes). A quick google of the switch code gives me nothing relevant. Once the logo can be identified, that will likely help a lot.
These switches are lightly tactile. A bit heavy (a tad frictiony though, more so that MX, but probably less than NMB Hi-Tek).
Unfortunately, all 3 switches (white slider with top casing, white slider without top casing, and dummy red slider without top casing) all have the same RMD 973. The red dummy switch has one of the pins clipped off it seems as well as a little rubber spacer between the leaf and the opposing contact (instead of a little gold spacer for contact) to prevent the switch from switching. The red dummy switch also doesn't have the arm to move the leaf spring.
I see no differences between the switch with and without the top casing (other than the top casing). The top casing interferes with the stabilizer bar, which is why it's not used for stabilized keys.
DSC_1561 by triplehaata, on Flickr
Also notice the large insert in the stabilized keycap.
DSC_1558 by triplehaata, on Flickr
I'll be posting more pics here of the full keyboard as I reassemble the keyboard and keypad.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaa ... 0296043599
Whenever Beardsmore says my speculations need more data I tend to try and get some
So, let's get rid of this stupid ICL name, because there's actually a product code on the switches!
DSC_1568 by triplehaata, on FlickrDSC_1570 by triplehaata, on FlickrRMD 973
I don't recognize the logo on the right (the three backslashes). A quick google of the switch code gives me nothing relevant. Once the logo can be identified, that will likely help a lot.
These switches are lightly tactile. A bit heavy (a tad frictiony though, more so that MX, but probably less than NMB Hi-Tek).
Unfortunately, all 3 switches (white slider with top casing, white slider without top casing, and dummy red slider without top casing) all have the same RMD 973. The red dummy switch has one of the pins clipped off it seems as well as a little rubber spacer between the leaf and the opposing contact (instead of a little gold spacer for contact) to prevent the switch from switching. The red dummy switch also doesn't have the arm to move the leaf spring.
I see no differences between the switch with and without the top casing (other than the top casing). The top casing interferes with the stabilizer bar, which is why it's not used for stabilized keys.
DSC_1561 by triplehaata, on FlickrAlso notice the large insert in the stabilized keycap.
DSC_1558 by triplehaata, on FlickrI'll be posting more pics here of the full keyboard as I reassemble the keyboard and keypad.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaa ... 0296043599
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Are the ones from the Loewe keyboard marked at all?
The three bars match the Ericsson logo, rotated through 90° which makes sense as Ericsson used those switches.
From Wikipedia:
"In 1991 ICL acquired Nokia Data, part of the Finnish Nokia Group. Nokia Data was itself the result of Nokia's mid-1980s acquisition of Ericsson Information Systems, whose origins lay in the purchase by Ericsson of the computer business of Saab, known as Datasaab."
That might explain why ICL ended up using them, if indeed these were used by ICL at some point in time.
The three bars match the Ericsson logo, rotated through 90° which makes sense as Ericsson used those switches.
From Wikipedia:
"In 1991 ICL acquired Nokia Data, part of the Finnish Nokia Group. Nokia Data was itself the result of Nokia's mid-1980s acquisition of Ericsson Information Systems, whose origins lay in the purchase by Ericsson of the computer business of Saab, known as Datasaab."
That might explain why ICL ended up using them, if indeed these were used by ICL at some point in time.
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HaaTa
- Master Kiibohd Hunter
- Location: San Jose, California, USA
- Main keyboard: Depends the day
- Main mouse: CST L-TracX
- Favorite switch: Fujitsu Leaf Spring/Topre/BS/Super Alps
- DT Pro Member: 0006
- Contact:
I'm going to recheck the Loewe keyboard when I find it (currently in an unlabeled box), hopefully today.
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HaaTa
- Master Kiibohd Hunter
- Location: San Jose, California, USA
- Main keyboard: Depends the day
- Main mouse: CST L-TracX
- Favorite switch: Fujitsu Leaf Spring/Topre/BS/Super Alps
- DT Pro Member: 0006
- Contact:
Just to make sure, I desoldered another switch from the Loewe. No markings on the back. Also, I correct myself from above, the white switches are lighter than the black ones. Two of the white switches are in the spacebar.
This keyboard was made around 1984 I think compared to around 1991 for the Nokia Data.
Loewe. TBT 02 Keyboard by triplehaata, on Flickr
This keyboard was made around 1984 I think compared to around 1991 for the Nokia Data.
Loewe. TBT 02 Keyboard by triplehaata, on Flickr-
Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I noticed that the Loewe keyboard had a Philips IC on it, and vsev has the same switches in a Philips keyboard.
That's in comparison to the other switch that's found in Swedish keyboards.
I suspect it will be a while before we know what these are for certain.
That's in comparison to the other switch that's found in Swedish keyboards.
I suspect it will be a while before we know what these are for certain.
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
A photo of the controller IC would be interesting — and any markings on the PCB. i.e. is it contemporary with the Loewe keyboard?
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HaaTa
- Master Kiibohd Hunter
- Location: San Jose, California, USA
- Main keyboard: Depends the day
- Main mouse: CST L-TracX
- Favorite switch: Fujitsu Leaf Spring/Topre/BS/Super Alps
- DT Pro Member: 0006
- Contact:
Had some time to do a bit more research:
Not quite the same switch, but getting closer I think.
http://cpmdatabase.cpm.chalmers.se/ILCD ... f98712.xml
(easier to read version: http://cpmdatabase.cpm.chalmers.se/Scri ... d=ECOP3225)
http://www.webforum.com/form/kthima/com ... id=7176280
Not quite the same switch, but getting closer I think.
http://cpmdatabase.cpm.chalmers.se/ILCD ... f98712.xml
(easier to read version: http://cpmdatabase.cpm.chalmers.se/Scri ... d=ECOP3225)
And another one:Component manufacturer one -- Ericsson product number: RMD 994 002/1 Ericsson description: Push-button switch. General: The push button switch is intended for keyboards and similar applications, where it is mounted on a circuit board. The switch is available in a non-locking model only. PCB thickness 1.6 mm. Design general: Material Lower housing: PA 6.6 GV (Nylon) Upper housing: PA 6.6 GV (Nylon) Contact spring: Phosphorous bronze Actuated stem: Acetal plastic Surface treatment: Contact area: 0,25e-6 m AuAg on Ni Soldering terminals: SnPb on Ni Dimensions Height: 18.5 mm, Length: 15,6 mm, Width: 15,6 mm, Terminal thickness: 2,54 mm Weight: 1,584 g (Ericsson: 2 g)
http://www.webforum.com/form/kthima/com ... id=7176280
RMD 943 01/01
PUSH-BUTTON SWITCH
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
It's looking pretty certain that they are indeed Ericsson.
So, how did we get "ICL switch" out of them?
So, how did we get "ICL switch" out of them?
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Findecanor
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
Similarly to how we staretd calling clicky SMK switches "Montereys": by finding them in a ICL-branded keyboard. Neither of the earliest found switches, SMK or Ericsson, had any logo.Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑So, how did we get "ICL switch" out of them?