F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Ellipse · 21 Apr 2016, 00:51

Yep that's a good idea - I'll see how it goes and extend accordingly to have about a month to order, at least.

Hypersphere · 21 Apr 2016, 16:24

I am also very much in favor of extending the deadline for ordering an ultracompact version until after we have seen the product. I would like to see pics and perhaps videos comparing the standard and ultracompact versions of the F62 and F77.

Tuntematon · 22 Apr 2016, 02:18

I don't know why everyone is so hesitant to order before the first round orders come in. I don't see any reason to doubt that these will be top-notch, Ellipse has clearly demonstrated a meticulous attention to detail and commitment to quality. Have some faith!

Ellipse · 22 Apr 2016, 02:30

Thanks Tuntematon!

Production officially starts next week according to the factory! The barrels, flippers, and zinc cases are up first. The zinc case molds need to be made, and that process could take a few weeks.

y11971alex · 22 Apr 2016, 06:51

If the loonie comes up to 90 US cents, I'll bite.

frankbartoli · 22 Apr 2016, 09:13

wonderful
a question: is possible to add custom keycaps (i saw clickclack in some previous pics)?
anyhow: +1 f62 for me

Elrick · 22 Apr 2016, 10:01

Tuntematon wrote: ↑I don't know why everyone is so hesitant to order before the first round orders come in. I don't see any reason to doubt that these will be top-notch, Ellipse has clearly demonstrated a meticulous attention to detail and commitment to quality. Have some faith!

Human nature my friend, everyone else is waiting for the 'guinea pigs' to get theirs first

.

Once everyone starts posting pics and experience, then you'll see a ten-fold increase in orders before they miss out on the last made F62 and F77 keyboard.

Always happened before and will keep on happening with every single Group Buy and you can never change that sort of behaviour.

shreebles · 22 Apr 2016, 11:57

Tuntematon wrote: ↑I don't know why everyone is so hesitant to order before the first round orders come in. I don't see any reason to doubt that these will be top-notch, Ellipse has clearly demonstrated a meticulous attention to detail and commitment to quality. Have some faith!

Yeah, sorry, if I pay over 300$ for a keyboard I expect it to be perfect. There are some defects or issues that only turn out after the product is in the field, which is why product recalls exist even with mass-manufactured products from big companies who prototyped their devices for years.

We are talking about a product that hasn't even entered mass-manufacture status.
It looks extremely promising, the prototypes are convincing and I do trust in Ellipse's dedication to this project.

But again, it's exactly that, a project, not a product yet.
I do not think it's wrong to want to stay on the safe side.

Ellipse · 22 Apr 2016, 23:44

Is anyone else waiting for the keyboards to go into the wild, who hasn't signed the interest form? Should I re-open the interest form to let people know (in case they are not following the thread closely)?

Elrick · 23 Apr 2016, 06:01

Ellipse wrote: ↑Is anyone else waiting for the keyboards to go into the wild, who hasn't signed the interest form?

Not so much the "Interest Form" it's the ACTUAL product that needs to be OUT there, within the fanatical keyboard community.

scottc · 23 Apr 2016, 11:09

shreebles wrote: ↑
Tuntematon wrote: ↑I don't know why everyone is so hesitant to order before the first round orders come in. I don't see any reason to doubt that these will be top-notch, Ellipse has clearly demonstrated a meticulous attention to detail and commitment to quality. Have some faith!
Yeah, sorry, if I pay over 300$ for a keyboard I expect it to be perfect. There are some defects or issues that only turn out after the product is in the field, which is why product recalls exist even with mass-manufactured products from big companies who prototyped their devices for years.

We are talking about a product that hasn't even entered mass-manufacture status.
It looks extremely promising, the prototypes are convincing and I do trust in Ellipse's dedication to this project.

But again, it's exactly that, a project, not a product yet.
I do not think it's wrong to want to stay on the safe side.

Yep, completely agree. Exactly the same here. The first-batch keyboards are going to be put under extreme scrutiny. I need them to be absolutely spot-on or I doubt I'll end up going for one.

willdenham · 26 Apr 2016, 05:48

Any update on getting the keycaps produced? Or is the first round going with Unicomps?

Ellipse · 26 Apr 2016, 06:03

The factory needs more time to quote the keys. I am aiming for the first round to go with the brand new XT style one-piece key caps; otherwise it would be $8,000 or so tougher to get those into production (~200 sets at about $35-$40 each). I would also like to make the horizontal and vertical stabilizer inserts and have added those to the quotation request.

Redmaus · 26 Apr 2016, 06:31

Will the keycaps be able to be sold separately?

Ellipse · 26 Apr 2016, 14:08

Check out the mechanical keyboard/gaming article in Vice today! Nicholas interviewed me. Just a paragraph or two mentions the Model F project as the article focuses on mechanical keyboards and gaming.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/mechan ... teelseries

Yep Red you can buy a set of keys separately.

SL89 · 26 Apr 2016, 14:35

Batten down the hatches for the influx of Vice readers.

I'm glad they talked about something other then eSports with regards to mechanical keyboards tho.

shreebles · 26 Apr 2016, 14:41

Very nice. Really short interview but interesting article on the whole.

Kind of funny to see the "outside view" on keyboard enthusiasts every now and then.

webwit · 26 Apr 2016, 15:15

a member of the Deskthority mechanical keyboard wiki who goes by the handle Ellipse

Good to see yet another wiki editor!

Ellipse · 28 Apr 2016, 00:28

Ha, I think they meant keyboard forum instead of keyboard wiki

Ellipse · 28 Apr 2016, 22:33

Good news - thanks to phosphorglow and wcass the compact xwhatsit controllers are working now! Of course I will do further testing beforehand but it looks like this will not be holding up the project.

sethbc · 29 Apr 2016, 06:45

Ellipse wrote: ↑Good news - thanks to phosphorglow and wcass the compact xwhatsit controllers are working now! Of course I will do further testing beforehand but it looks like this will not be holding up the project.

Excellent. Looking forward to mine!

Ellipse · 30 Apr 2016, 16:37

Expected timeline as of now:

Sea mail shipping from China to the US usually takes 2-4 weeks from what I can gather (probably closer to 4 weeks). After that I have to test and ship each unit to everyone.

I still have the option of air mail shipping from China, which would save 2-4 weeks (probably closer to 4 weeks) for those who want the keyboard ASAP. So far 4 keyboards are being shipped this way. The price is still $75/keyboard.

Ellipse · 02 May 2016, 02:33

And now that the compact xwhatsit controllers are likely to be good (or at least their footprint is not expected to change) I will not be held up in ordering just about all the remaining parts for the F62 and F77 keyboards except for the keys (the factory still needs more time to quote the keys).

I am looking to order these parts this week (just about all the parts related to the inner assembly).

andrewjoy · 03 May 2016, 11:13

Ellipse wrote: ↑Expected timeline as of now:

Sea mail shipping from China to the US usually takes 2-4 weeks from what I can gather (probably closer to 4 weeks). After that I have to test and ship each unit to everyone. As an update I am hoping for everything to be assembled and ship from China by the end of June, so we are probably looking at the keyboards shipping to you in July/August. This is later than the original estimate.

I still have the option of air mail shipping from China, which would save 2-4 weeks (probably closer to 4 weeks) for those who want the keyboard ASAP. So far 4 keyboards are being shipped this way. The price is still $75/keyboard.

What does this mean for the people who want to see them in the wild before we order ?

scottc · 03 May 2016, 11:26

Same question as andrewjoy. I will not buy this unless I can read a review by an impartial first-round buyer before the second-round orders close. I know that many are in the same position as I am.

shreebles · 03 May 2016, 11:27

I think he mentioned that he was going to move the second order deadline further back. Didn't he?

Techno Trousers · 03 May 2016, 15:32

Ellipse said he'll give us at least a month after the first round gets to buyers before closing round 2 ordering.

Ellipse · 03 May 2016, 23:49

Yep Techno is right. It will be open for at least a month after shipping these out to early bird round buyers. I know that some people are keen on third-party opinions.

Before then, the best indication of the F62/F77 quality is to take a look and listen to the 2160p UHD video I posted on YouTube in January. It's high resolution and the sound is clear so each viewer can draw their own conclusions about the prototype sound. The prototypes sound good but I am confident that the production units will be even better!

Why third party buyers' opinions and reviews should be taken with a grain of salt: Please keep in mind that every Model F keyboard in my own experience has a unique sound and feel, meaning an F62/F77 has little chance of matching the sound of another original Model F or of one of these reproductions (the repro's should sound similar to each other given they are all new and from the same early bird manufacturing batch). Given that, many a buyer/reviewer will certainly say something like "The sound is not the same as my original Model F." Even the thickness of the inner foam and its state (disintegrating older foam or replacement newer foam) plays a role in the reverberation (thicker foam in my experience makes the keyboard quieter and less reverberant/musical). Two AT's in my collection sound different from each other and from an XT. Two of my F77s sound different from each other and other F's. My F107s sound different than my F122s. Even one of my 1985 F122s sounds different from my 6110344 from mid-1984. And it's not just the sound - the state and type of springs also plays a factor in the typing feel/experience - a long time Model F user may prefer the worn down springs in his original F because of the reduced actuation force, compared to a new F (my new F's take some time to break the springs in so that they are even smoother). Maybe a reviewer prefers quieter keyboards or keyboards at a $100 price point, which would rule out a new Model F.

shreebles · 04 May 2016, 07:24

I don't know if that's possible, but a potential buyer dissatisified with the newer flippers could perhaps disassemble the new F and put old IBM flippers in? That is, if we can safely disassemble it.

Speaking of disassembly, I understand there is no warranty for this product, correct?
I am not just interested in the sound but also how well it performs.
I think most people are the same, they want to hear third party opinions on how it fares in day-to-day use, not just how it sounds. Probably difficult after a month but hey, if they say it works and it's the best keyboard ever that probably won't hurt sales either

Ellipse · 05 May 2016, 02:24

yep correct shreebles on all points

If you've disassembled Model F's before this one should be no different to disassemble. I've been using my F62/F77 prototypes extensively since January and they have not caused me trouble. They do take some time for the brand new springs to break in, especially if you're used to typing on a heavily worn Model F.