Brexit
- photekq
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This'll be fun for the next month.
Discuss your thoughts, discuss the thoughts of others, argue, etc.
I usually find myself heavily outnumbered here when it comes to politics, but perhaps I'll find a few others that back a Leave vote. Definitely not Mu, but maybe someone..
To get things started : http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05 ... sts-power/
In other words : The EU Commission does not care about the will of the people or democracy so long as the people disagree with The EU Commission
Discuss your thoughts, discuss the thoughts of others, argue, etc.
I usually find myself heavily outnumbered here when it comes to politics, but perhaps I'll find a few others that back a Leave vote. Definitely not Mu, but maybe someone..
To get things started : http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05 ... sts-power/
In other words : The EU Commission does not care about the will of the people or democracy so long as the people disagree with The EU Commission
- seebart
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It's actually much worse and I'm not sure all of you EU advocates are really aware of this; once you (anyone) joins the EU you are subject to their very incoherent and scatterbrained policies that also take forever to implement by which time they are usually obsolete. Furthermore you have to pay a shitload of $$$ to keep the papertiger Brussels rolling along in their very complacent manner. But worst of all no really important universally adaptable politics are made, or if they are made then the members just don't agree on them and your back at square one having spent €€€ Billions on behemoth self administration. That's the sad reality of it. Welcome to the EU.
- Wodan
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I've been waiting for a country to drop out of the EU for a long time now and couldn't be more excited about it.
Of course I was hoping it would be Greece ... lol don't get me started ...
But I don't mind if it's Britain. They've always tried to get a special treatment and still enjoy the membership rebate Thatcher negotiated in the 80s.
While a part of me want to see Britain fail after dropping out of the EU and re-apply for membership after a few years, I think seeing Britain do better without the EU would also send a strong signal showing that even for the stronger countries, the EU isn't essential for success.
No matter how it ends, I am wishing for a message to the receiving/demanding countries in the south of the EU: Drop out or STFU.
Of course I was hoping it would be Greece ... lol don't get me started ...
But I don't mind if it's Britain. They've always tried to get a special treatment and still enjoy the membership rebate Thatcher negotiated in the 80s.
While a part of me want to see Britain fail after dropping out of the EU and re-apply for membership after a few years, I think seeing Britain do better without the EU would also send a strong signal showing that even for the stronger countries, the EU isn't essential for success.
No matter how it ends, I am wishing for a message to the receiving/demanding countries in the south of the EU: Drop out or STFU.
- Muirium
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Don't get your hopes up:Wodan wrote: ↑I've been waiting for a country to drop out of the EU for a long time now and couldn't be more excited about it.
The English are just as easily put back in their box by Project Fear horror stories as the Scots.
- Muirium
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Okay, first of all you must understand that technically I am not even here, as I'm boycotting this thread. <Pulls plate of croissants over the conference table> So these discussions are inherently, as we say, hypothetical. <Om nom nom> Well, now that's agreed upon, yes, in the spirit of ever closer union, let's figure out a way to kick out everyone we don't like. The absolutely crucial part <loud slurp of hot coffee> is giving them no warning whatsoever. Naturally. I mean, we are all Europeans here! Except for that lot…
- Redmaus
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- Muirium
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I can't watch it. According to the Beeb (perfectly unbiased national treasure and institution that it surely is, rah rah, GSTQ) that'll be an apocalyptic horror movie, and I need to get drunk before I sit down to those…
- Redmaus
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I saw a few other polls that were actually the other way around. I think this will be much closer than the Scotland independence vote.
- seebart
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That's what Cameron sounded like in Japan a short while ago also. Crazy if it went the other way, I'd love to see that.Muirium wrote: ↑Lots of fun. But entirely unlikely. This thing's all stitched up. England's staying in.
- Muirium
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Brexit is absolutely more interesting than no change at all. We can all agree on that! Whether "interesting" in a good or a bad way is a whole other matter…
Once my postal vote arrives, I'll run a poll like I did for Scottish Independence in 2014. But! This time I don't have a horse in the race, personally. So for a laugh I'll let the voters of DT make my mind up for me.
Once my postal vote arrives, I'll run a poll like I did for Scottish Independence in 2014. But! This time I don't have a horse in the race, personally. So for a laugh I'll let the voters of DT make my mind up for me.
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I hope that "Brexit" will not lead to UK leaving the union but rather that the points that the British critics do have against the EU get addressed properly, leading to reform within the EU.
Personally, I'd rather see EU have less power over its member states than it has now. Most of the benefits of the EU, we got already when we were in the EEA.
And... I would like the UK to enter the Schengen area and loosen up, becoming less of a surveillance state than it is now.
Personally, I'd rather see EU have less power over its member states than it has now. Most of the benefits of the EU, we got already when we were in the EEA.
And... I would like the UK to enter the Schengen area and loosen up, becoming less of a surveillance state than it is now.
- Muirium
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The EU is all about hope and reform. Uh, honest.
As for the surveillance state over here the last decade or so? People seem to be fine with it. I'm not a fan, myself, but it gets talked about a lot more outside of Britain than it does within. Odd that.
Once again the Simpsons power of prophecy:
(Pity the uploader nixed the joke. Eejit. Wullie had just saved Homer's reputation from the same dirt raking TV show that now turned its sights on him. Did Homer have any sympathy for him? Hell no.)
As for the surveillance state over here the last decade or so? People seem to be fine with it. I'm not a fan, myself, but it gets talked about a lot more outside of Britain than it does within. Odd that.
Once again the Simpsons power of prophecy:
(Pity the uploader nixed the joke. Eejit. Wullie had just saved Homer's reputation from the same dirt raking TV show that now turned its sights on him. Did Homer have any sympathy for him? Hell no.)
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I hope UK will go out. More specifically, I wish The City out.
- Muirium
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I'd like The City of London out of my country, too. But fear won that vote, and it will win this vote too. These isles are home to a very cowardly family of peoples…
- Chyros
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When in doubt, ask the bookies. I think most stack it 2:1 against leaving, so it's likely they'll remain.
Of course, the question is how much the Brits are willing to sacrifice for the privilege of not being European :p .
Of course, the question is how much the Brits are willing to sacrifice for the privilege of not being European :p .
- Muirium
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That line graph I posted earlier is the online gambling odds. The money says more like 4:1 in favour of Remain now.
According to the pollsters, they may even be over stating the Leave support. That fits with how badly they over estimated UKIP lately. File this one under landslide.
According to the pollsters, they may even be over stating the Leave support. That fits with how badly they over estimated UKIP lately. File this one under landslide.
- bubblebobbler
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I found this to be a good watch and I agreed with Yanis' overarching points - If there's a stay vote, there is a need for EU Reform involving more transparency and more done for the good of people rather than the good of the top 1% (his point of innovation bonds is a good one)
That said, I have not even entertained the other side yet, and definitely not enough to vote. When I've looked (very briefly) at the reasons to leave, I think I was too easy to dismiss vote-leave as people being xenophobes or radical for radical's sake. I'll check out the Brexit movie linked later today
That said, I have not even entertained the other side yet, and definitely not enough to vote. When I've looked (very briefly) at the reasons to leave, I think I was too easy to dismiss vote-leave as people being xenophobes or radical for radical's sake. I'll check out the Brexit movie linked later today
- Redmaus
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I think you will be convinced that is not the case when you see the filmbubblebobbler wrote: ↑ When I've looked (very briefly) at the reasons to leave, I think I was too easy to dismiss vote-leave as people being xenophobes or radical for radical's sake. I'll check out the Brexit movie linked later today
Also something to think about, your freedom of speech is being taken away also:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1937_en.htm
- Muirium
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This is Britain, dear chap, we don't have such dreadfully gauche nonsense as free speech over here.
http://super-injunction.blogspot.co.uk/
I'm not even kidding. Super injunctions gag the press. The official secrets act gags whistleblowers. And London has some of the spookiest spooks in the world. This state's a lot more Putin than we like to think.
http://super-injunction.blogspot.co.uk/
I'm not even kidding. Super injunctions gag the press. The official secrets act gags whistleblowers. And London has some of the spookiest spooks in the world. This state's a lot more Putin than we like to think.
- Muirium
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I think also that in certain parts of London peaceful protests are illegal, i remember seeing a story where there was some guy protesting and he was fine as he started his protest before the law came into effect but anyone who wants to start a march or a sit in or whatever cannot do this because they will be remove / arrested by the police. Scary stuff but again i don't remember where the info came from so take it with a grain of salt.Muirium wrote: ↑This is Britain, dear chap, we don't have such dreadfully gauche nonsense as free speech over here.
http://super-injunction.blogspot.co.uk/
I'm not even kidding. Super injunctions gag the press. The official secrets act gags whistleblowers. And London has some of the spookiest spooks in the world. This state's a lot more Putin than we like to think.
I don't agree with state control of the media but i do think there should be personal protections so that someones private life cannot be splattered all over the front of the red tops, but its a tricky balance to reach.
The extent to which the British government wants to censor the internet is also terrifying, now sure blocks at the moment are only for copyright infringement and they are not legally binding ( for example get a leased line and poof no block at all) but there is president for blocking all manner of things such as social media in the event of civil unrest and things like political decent , blasphemy promoting dissolution of the monarchy and so on, this is something you expect to hear from saudi or iran not from the united kingdom. This is one of my biggest fears if we leave the EU , the EU at least in some part is holding the british governments leash on this but if that was to go then the gloves are off.
Further outside the UK government being a bunch of scary fuckers .
The organisation i work for would also not exist in its current form without EU finding , local council funding has been cut by about 50% this year with a possibility of it going completely in the following year , and arts council England also has less money than it did a few years ago so there is less of that to go around , that EU money is keeping us in the black.
Things like employment laws , personal rights and freedoms , protection for the poor and sick and so on would be severally reduced if we where to leave the EU, the conservatives would love to get rid of the right to strike , protection from long working hours and protection for employees from unfair dismissal and so on, just look at the dispute between doctors and the government at the moment.
The brexit supporters claim we give about 18billion to the EU but with rebates and what we get back with EU funding for things like farmers subsidies and so on its closer to 9 billion, not to mention EU funding for new building , regeneration and arts projects. Hell its a bloody bargin, don't listen to borris the buffoon when he tells you we can now spend it where we want to , the fuckers will keep it in the coffers for no reason whatsoever.
Honestly i see no good reason to leave the EU , only bad if we go.
The main issue i have is that all the press on both sides has been bashing the other side , no firm numbers .
The people who want to leave have in my view and inflated view of the power and influence the UK has ( they must still think the sun never sets or something) or have a vested interest in reducing regulation and protections for normal folk so they can make even more insane sums of money by ripping people off and fucking them over.
EDIT
And i forgot the most important thing! Buying a keyboard form the EU will be more expensive as you will have to pay import duty on it ! Fuckers ! Its bad enough now buying from the US.